i hate to start threads like bernie but
- Thread starter john schmidt
- Start date
macguy said:
Pleeeeeeeeeeeese, you calling someone else a hypocrite?????? Your modus operandi is to jump all over someone and then backpedal like crazy to ward off getting booted. I hope Mr. Wilson is really sick of your critical posts and follows through on giving you the boot. Of course you are in the backpedal mode now so you can kiss butt to avoid getting booted. I hope Mr. Wilson sees through this also.
JoeyA said:
Joey,
I'm sure you are well meaning, but your reference to the WPBA belongs on another post. As far as your perceived negativity in many of the posts surrounding the IPT, most of these posters are well intentioned as well. There main concern is first and foremost trying to find a way to get all the players paid from Reno.
The success or failure of the IPT is now secondary to insuring that all 200 players receive the $3,000,000 that they went to Reno for. After all, that (and KT's promises) are what brought them there. Their being paid, is the only hope for any future for the IPT. If not, there is no IPT, plain and simple. It IS all over.
Yes, there is animosity directed at KT and Deno. And for good reason I might add. They have consistently and continuously spun a web of deception regarding the monies that are owed to these 200 players. And this was supposed to be THE Tour that set a new example for integrity in making prompt payments.
Many players are out large sums of money because of this deception. And that is not okay with me and many others. Someone will be held accountable for these misdeeds. And it is good that they are put on notice for this. It might encourage them to make good, before they go on to their next venture.
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I have watched and listened to a lot of your condescending and self righteous posts for long and long.
I kept my mouth shut and allowed you to basically run off someone I care about ( JAM ) and you are now firing your attitude up again.
When do I put my foot down?
Maybe after you run someone else off?
Trust me, it won't get that far ever again.
This is your last warning.
I kept my mouth shut and allowed you to basically run off someone I care about ( JAM ) and you are now firing your attitude up again.
When do I put my foot down?
Maybe after you run someone else off?
Trust me, it won't get that far ever again.
This is your last warning.
and his head is hanging low
.
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Edited to add some sad going away music to macguy : http://freepages.music.rootsweb.com/~edgmon/stoldblackjoe.htm
.Smorgass Bored said:
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Edited to add some sad going away music to macguy : http://freepages.music.rootsweb.com/~edgmon/stoldblackjoe.htm
john schmidt said:
Great job at the US Open John. My guess is once you get rid of the 20 or so in the mob that most everyone else is neutral or on the side of KT, there just isn't as much motivation for people to say nice things about someone. Personally, I think he has done amazing things for pool and I hope he can continue (although I hate 8 ball). I spoke to one player who may be the most negative money wise with the IPT and he said the "money comes and goes but experiences last a lifetime", I found that kind of refreshing and your opinion is refreshing also. I hope KT can ignore the "mob mentality" and make it go right to get the players paid up and then right the ship so there is some kind of decent tour for the pros of the world.
(I see Damian and Nick occasionally and they learned well from you, both play jam up and are very enjoyable to play with. I expect Damian would do well as a pro and I hope he gets his opportunity, he can handle pressure with the best of them.)
Wayne
Ultimately, the opinions that count most are those of the players. So I really pay most attention to those.
It has been difficult to wade through the reams of mostly one-sided repetitious & derogatory threads about the IPT in the last few weeks. The worst part about it, is some of them are from obviously intelligent people, and some people whom I count as friends!
I just happen to disagree with them in terms of the overall positive net value of the IPT. I think that you could condense the thousands of hours of vitriolic hate threads into a small bullet list of negatives. I have neither the energy nor desire to constantly rephrase my support of the IPT into dozens of threads per week just to keep up with the other side for balance purposes.
I think that we are seeing the vociferous minority who have hated Trudeau from day one and now finally have something tangible regarding the IPT in order to use as a vehicle for their anti-trudeau rhetoric.
So, thanks for your post John, and I hope to see you all get paid soon, and hope that Chicago goes off without a hitch.
It has been difficult to wade through the reams of mostly one-sided repetitious & derogatory threads about the IPT in the last few weeks. The worst part about it, is some of them are from obviously intelligent people, and some people whom I count as friends!
I just happen to disagree with them in terms of the overall positive net value of the IPT. I think that you could condense the thousands of hours of vitriolic hate threads into a small bullet list of negatives. I have neither the energy nor desire to constantly rephrase my support of the IPT into dozens of threads per week just to keep up with the other side for balance purposes.
I think that we are seeing the vociferous minority who have hated Trudeau from day one and now finally have something tangible regarding the IPT in order to use as a vehicle for their anti-trudeau rhetoric.
So, thanks for your post John, and I hope to see you all get paid soon, and hope that Chicago goes off without a hitch.
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I've been reading these posts for weeks, and just have to jump in with my comments, as everyone rides this storm out.
Of course Gabe is on the IPT, I can’t speak for him, but can only speak from prior experience of watching his career.
Over his career, there were times where he played for little money, big money, won, lost, was
never paid sometimes. Sometimes never paid big and small amounts he won, but was patient, and many of them that owed him did eventually pay. Some turned out to be some of his best income producers or best friends to him. One time I know of, Gabe even lost a lot himself, took him awhile to pay that off, but the opponent knew he was good for it.
He experienced lots of highs and lows, but he didn't give up, seeking a better life and a big part of that life is obviously playing pool.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, each day we get up isn’t guaranteed. But don't we often use a bit of faith that things may work out for us, whether it be financially, our jobs, in relationships, or in any other endeavor? Sometimes patience, faith, belief in our fellow man need to take over.
Many pros have gambled small and large, have lost, have won. They have often had to use much patience, perseverance, understanding, faith in themselves and often others.
It’s evident that KT has brought pool to an awareness as never before, being on TV regularly
lately, matches online, etc. I can't imagine him paying out the millions he has already paid and not being sincere that he is in it for as long as he can do it.
He obviously needs and is trying to get more support, whether from advertisers, investors, sponsors, fans, to make it even more successful. I personally agree that it is a huge undertaking and can take some time.
Fortunately Gabe, and I'm sure several other pros, didn't miss any meals nor have their cars/homes, etc., repossessed by not having yet been paid from Reno. Many of them have already been somewhat financially stable and are not completely dependent on each IPT for their livelihood for the week or month. But had he been, he would have gotten through it, as he did other pool disasters in prior years.
I would think alot of the pros on the IPT, from the prior professionalism shown by the IPT in the past, money paid to them in the past, and visualizing what the IPT could do for pool, players, businesses, and fans if it were to continue, is keeping them quiet and they may be exercising some patience, understanding, faith, and giving the benefit of the doubt to the IPT, which they've probably had to use in many instances in their careers to get to where they are.
Perhaps many of the players think that if they can collectively help KT and IPT’s success by just being a bit patient, maybe think of it as an investment of their time and money they’ve spent thus far, that maybe it will work out better in the end for not only them, but the game, and future players. And if not, it isn't the end of the world. They can then chalk it up as another loss in their careers, which they’ve surely experienced. Then everyone suffers and/or deals with whatever consequences each has, and the players keep on playing elsewhere as they did before IPT.
I believe all things happen for a reason……
Of course Gabe is on the IPT, I can’t speak for him, but can only speak from prior experience of watching his career.
Over his career, there were times where he played for little money, big money, won, lost, was
never paid sometimes. Sometimes never paid big and small amounts he won, but was patient, and many of them that owed him did eventually pay. Some turned out to be some of his best income producers or best friends to him. One time I know of, Gabe even lost a lot himself, took him awhile to pay that off, but the opponent knew he was good for it.
He experienced lots of highs and lows, but he didn't give up, seeking a better life and a big part of that life is obviously playing pool.
Nothing in life is guaranteed, each day we get up isn’t guaranteed. But don't we often use a bit of faith that things may work out for us, whether it be financially, our jobs, in relationships, or in any other endeavor? Sometimes patience, faith, belief in our fellow man need to take over.
Many pros have gambled small and large, have lost, have won. They have often had to use much patience, perseverance, understanding, faith in themselves and often others.
It’s evident that KT has brought pool to an awareness as never before, being on TV regularly
lately, matches online, etc. I can't imagine him paying out the millions he has already paid and not being sincere that he is in it for as long as he can do it.
He obviously needs and is trying to get more support, whether from advertisers, investors, sponsors, fans, to make it even more successful. I personally agree that it is a huge undertaking and can take some time.
Fortunately Gabe, and I'm sure several other pros, didn't miss any meals nor have their cars/homes, etc., repossessed by not having yet been paid from Reno. Many of them have already been somewhat financially stable and are not completely dependent on each IPT for their livelihood for the week or month. But had he been, he would have gotten through it, as he did other pool disasters in prior years.
I would think alot of the pros on the IPT, from the prior professionalism shown by the IPT in the past, money paid to them in the past, and visualizing what the IPT could do for pool, players, businesses, and fans if it were to continue, is keeping them quiet and they may be exercising some patience, understanding, faith, and giving the benefit of the doubt to the IPT, which they've probably had to use in many instances in their careers to get to where they are.
Perhaps many of the players think that if they can collectively help KT and IPT’s success by just being a bit patient, maybe think of it as an investment of their time and money they’ve spent thus far, that maybe it will work out better in the end for not only them, but the game, and future players. And if not, it isn't the end of the world. They can then chalk it up as another loss in their careers, which they’ve surely experienced. Then everyone suffers and/or deals with whatever consequences each has, and the players keep on playing elsewhere as they did before IPT.
I believe all things happen for a reason……
john schmidt said:
Great job at the US Open John. My guess is once you get rid of the 20 or so in the mob that most everyone else is neutral or on the side of KT, there just isn't as much motivation for people to say nice things about someone. Personally, I think he has done amazing things for pool and I hope he can continue (although I hate 8 ball). I spoke to one player who may be the most negative money wise with the IPT and he said the "money comes and goes but experiences last a lifetime", I found that kind of refreshing and your opinion is refreshing also. I hope KT can ignore the "mob mentality" and make it go right to get the players paid up and then right the ship so there is some kind of decent tour for the pros of the world.
(I see Damian and Nick occasionally and they learned well from you, both play jam up and are very enjoyable to play with. I expect Damian would do well as a pro and I hope he gets his opportunity, he can handle pressure with the best of them.)
Wayne
Da Poet said:
I think it applies, these people are owed a lot of money and they will resort to that type of thinking as a form of survival, IE getting paid. In everyday life if any of them were treated like this they would want to give the guy a smack. Someone owes me $50,000 and doesn't want to pay may find them selves part of a 400 yard pour. These people should be getting more then a little nervous at this point and that will be replaced by anger.
Then we will hear how they really feel but for now most are in survival mode and don't want to piss off the IPT hoping to get paid. Seriously, be very objective and use your imagination, if someone owes you that kind of money would you be praising them and saying "Oh well, what ever, it was fun"? I think the players who don't comment are not so complacent about it, they must be really, really mad and don't know what to do.
I had a chance to talk to a few of the IPT players at the WPBA event and I can assure you that they are not complacent. They are ticked off and want to do something about it. They just don't know what they can do.
Mike
Mike
AzHousePro said:
I think that sums it up for many here at AZB. Frustration and a feeling of helplessness, tinged with anger. The longer this lasts, the lower the boiling point goes. I wish that Gabe and John and every other player owed money, would get their money today. KT has almost everyone with an interest in the IPT at their wit's end. Aaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh !!!
Doug
(dammit !)
I would like to make a point about all of this. I think alot of the animosity about all of this stems from the character of KT himself. If someone like Bill Gates, for instance, had started the IPT and it wasnt quite panning out as planned and the payments were late, etc. people would be alot less likely to worry because of his reputation. But, with KT the treacherous factor is there in his past. So, while you have to praise him for the payouts that the players have seen, you also have to fear the fact that he will fold up shop and run if its not going as he planned and leave some people "hanging". Its kind of a double-edged sword.
Southpaw
Southpaw
AzHousePro said:
I know they don't know what to do, but they need to find out. There could come a time when it is too late and there may have been something they could have done but didn't know it. My point is, I would not be at all counting on any future of the IPT if I was owed money but want it now. I would not be worried about some kind of retribution from the IPT or being black balling. I would make a legal move NOW, today, that could preserve my rights what ever they are, if any. I don't think the players can get any better advice then that.
You know also, in reading many of the posts I don't think some of the posters can identify with what is owed. Go to Circuit city and you will see people walking up and down trying to get the best deal on a TV, they will spend hours there trying to save a $100.00. They stay on hold for an hour with their cell phone provider trying to save $5.00 a month on their bill. What would they do if they were owed $40,000? The money that some of the players have coming is big, for some of them I am sure could be life changing, it is real money.
This is not an "Oh well" deal, those players need to get their rights protected and go after that money before it is too late and they could very well sleep it if they are not careful, laws can be very funny and they are dealing with a very smart guy when it comes to this kind of thing.
Preserving their right is their first order of business.
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Tap,Tap,Tap...
macguy said:
Is this a reference to a 'concrete' pour?
If so, I don't think that can really happen in real life. Rotting corpses leak gases that inevitably find a way to the surface. MythBusters buried a pig wrapped multiple times in plastic in concrete, and even when the concrete hardened, it smelled like a dead, rotting body around the sidewalk.
And FWIW, I agree with the rest of your post. The players who are angry are not talking, and a select few others are singing the praises of KT in a desperate effort to convince themselves the man is not a slimeball.
(Sorry John Schmidt.. that's just how I see it. But, then again, I like playing on bar tables, so I'm an idiot.
)Russ
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K*&T---PAY THE PLAYERS THEIR WINNINGS FROM RENO next week as you stated you would.
NO AIR, OZ's, STOCK OPTIONS (unless they insist),etc.
If you have a cash flow problem you could:
a) Sell a few of your cars
b) Sell one of your yachts
c) Sell one of your homes--maybe MARTHA's VINEYARD
d) Terminate some of your personal relashonships
e) If you pursue option D you'll have time to GET a JOB
BOTTOM LINE----pay the PLAYER'S and don't repeat your mistakes....
NO AIR, OZ's, STOCK OPTIONS (unless they insist),etc.
If you have a cash flow problem you could:
a) Sell a few of your cars
b) Sell one of your yachts
c) Sell one of your homes--maybe MARTHA's VINEYARD
d) Terminate some of your personal relashonships
e) If you pursue option D you'll have time to GET a JOB
BOTTOM LINE----pay the PLAYER'S and don't repeat your mistakes....
Russ Chewning said:Is this a reference to a 'concrete' pour?
If so, I don't think that can really happen in real life. Rotting corpses leak gases that inevitably find a way to the surface. MythBusters buried a pig wrapped multiple times in plastic in concrete, and even when the concrete hardened, it smelled like a dead, rotting body around the sidewalk.
And FWIW, I agree with the rest of your post. The players who are angry are not talking, and a select few others are singing the praises of KT in a desperate effort to convince themselves the man is not a slimeball.
(Sorry John Schmidt.. that's just how I see it. But, then again, I like playing on bar tables, so I'm an idiot.
Russ
It's an old saying people in the building business often use, usually a corner stone or parking lot is referenced. You are right though, even though a body is mostly water and fat it is something you never forget if you ever smell one.