i hate to start threads like bernie but
- Thread starter john schmidt
- Start date
macguy...<<It would be nice if he exhibited at least a grain or empathy for his fellow players.>>
I don't necessarily agree with all your views but I have to agree that it is somewhat objectionalbe to me when a player who is ONE OF THE FEW that is in the "winner's column" re: competing in IPT events takes a position that seems to disregard the fact that a VERY LARGE percentage of competitors have LOST money...on a net basis, after expenses and non-payments.
But is seems to be human nature that all too many people take the position to the effect that "You can screw anyone so long as it is not me."
With all due respect to John, I think that is the position that he is taking.
IMHO,
Jim
I don't necessarily agree with all your views but I have to agree that it is somewhat objectionalbe to me when a player who is ONE OF THE FEW that is in the "winner's column" re: competing in IPT events takes a position that seems to disregard the fact that a VERY LARGE percentage of competitors have LOST money...on a net basis, after expenses and non-payments.
But is seems to be human nature that all too many people take the position to the effect that "You can screw anyone so long as it is not me."
With all due respect to John, I think that is the position that he is taking.
IMHO,
Jim
macguy said:
The best thing for the players to do is keep all their options open and stay cool.
Threatening legal action right now is premature. It is a sign of panic and desperation and is not needed at this point in time. Don't you think the players are better off maintaining their composure, waiting a few more weeks to see if they will get the full amount and the tour will continue rather than launching into two years of legal crap, possibly killing the tour, only to get less, if any, of what they are owed right now?
You can't hold the fact that they are being patient against them.
AZhousepro...<< had a chance to talk to a few of the IPT players at the WPBA event and I can assure you that they are not complacent. They are ticked off and want to do something about it. They just don't know what they can do.>>
I don't know NYC Dude personally but I get the feeling that he is deadly serious re: pushing forward to take action so I think that all concerned just need to sit tight and that there will soon be a bandwagon to jump on.
Regards,
Jim
I don't know NYC Dude personally but I get the feeling that he is deadly serious re: pushing forward to take action so I think that all concerned just need to sit tight and that there will soon be a bandwagon to jump on.
Regards,
Jim
Da Poet said:
Of course I want the players to be paid in full.. But you don't mind me quoting the above if or when the IPT/KT preempts legal action by declaring bankruptcy.. Do you?
I mean.. IMHO, you are giving a slimeball maggot like Kevin Trudeau too much by giving him another few weeks.
Question: If he offers all the players 2K in cash to come to Chicago and play, with the promise that while the prize money for both Reno and Chicago isn't there now, that they will be paid as soon as the buyout goes through, would you suggest they go? (Nevermind the fact that the players will go.. THAT'S a foregone conclusion.)
I'll say this. I say that KT is not going to put another dime of his own money into the IPT. That includes towards the Reno payouts. He's already decided that's it's a losing venture. If I am right, you can BET he is doing one of two things. He is either ACTUALLY in solid negotiations with someone who wants to buy the IPT, or he is doing the preliminary paperwork to file bankruptcy for the IPT. If he is doing the paperwork for bankruptcy, the players may have a very short time period to act.
Given his documented propensity for lying to us all, which do YOU believe is true?
I just think it is rather sad. KT has been shown to be a man almost incapable of being straight with the players. Instead of being pragmatists, and going after the money that is owed to them now, they are "waiting" in order not to damage a tour that never had a chance to be profitable in the first place.
"Big dreamer" ideas aside, people have written long essays on this forum on how KT's business model could never generate profit. People chose to label these people pessimists. They chose to say that Kevin was doing all of this because he liked pool. Hmm. His interview with the billiard media seems to show that not only does he not understand pool, he doesn't even like the players much.
Yet people are still saying "sit and wait". Well, I am sorry to say, I am about 95% convinced that the longer the pros wait, the less money they are going to get in the long run.
Russ
Last edited:
Da Poet said:
Your right, as long as they know what their options are. Just waiting and not even getting consultation could be the biggest mistake if there is anything going on in the background to be sure there is nothing they can get. I am not saying you go after them legally just find out your rights. It could be as simple as the drafting of a letter that could put you in the front of the line to get paid and not doing so cost you everything. We are not lawyers but rest assure KT has plenty.
I am sorry but the gist of your post comes from fear, that is a bad bargaining position. You don't threaten KT or file suit necessarily, unless that is the right thing to do, but you do have to know where you stand, timing can often be everything in matters like this. One of the things that would worry me most about the way it is going is the delays. We know it is to buy time but for what and who? Like I said, there could be a point they are legally out of luck, I would, if I was one of the players, like to know if that could be the case. He may get them to sleep their options till it is too late.
Heres the thing, if this was to become the case it wouldn't mean they won't get paid but it would have KT really holding all the cards which is the way he likes it. You just have to be really careful dealing with a guy like this.
Last edited:
macguy said:
I'm going to have to agree with Mac on this. Sitting on your hands and taking the wait and see approach is probably not the best stategy at this time. Being proactive is. It is the Players who are owed money who should be the ones protesting loudest right now. Not us.
I would not be complementing KT on all he has done for Pool. Patting someone on the back who owes you a fortune is not going to help your cause. Unless you just don't care if you ever get paid. Sorry if I upset anyone, but that is my opinion.
Wow!
IT's just an observation but the same people that were flameing me for the Stay positive ,good image theme I posted are now Saying what I Was.
And I got a Negative for my opinion. Guess if your not a member of the "IN"
crowd your fair game. I will not and refuse to be rude if I can. Accidents happen.
Again, Just an observation. Looks like some get crow for dinner.
Keep Smile'n
AL
IT's just an observation but the same people that were flameing me for the Stay positive ,good image theme I posted are now Saying what I Was.
And I got a Negative for my opinion. Guess if your not a member of the "IN"
crowd your fair game. I will not and refuse to be rude if I can. Accidents happen.
Again, Just an observation. Looks like some get crow for dinner.
Keep Smile'n
AL
chiefseabee said:
(In best "Worm from Rounders" impression)
Hey! English only at the table!
Russ
John, the negative feedback given to Kevin Trudeau was not just for the sake of being disagreeable. This guy has a past that he can't get away from. From the moment most of saw who was starting the IPT, we couldn't help but hold our noses. Have you ever seen this guy on TV? Have you seen his record? Some day there will be a good men's tour, but it won't be a guy like Trudeau who starts it. We've met and I find you a very likeable and nice guy. All the best collecting your money and for the future.john schmidt said:
ipt
well i think you all need to calm down ,its a new business and any big business starting up is going to hit a few snags (bridges as kevin would say) god ive never read so much rubbish!! yes kevin not done the ipt any favours with late payments and events cancelled etc..but you got to look at the big picture its still got a heart beat the ipt is alive and people need to remember that,i believe kevins working his bollox of to get it back on track so i think we should all get behind him and the ipt because its pool last chance at the big time in my opinion and like john said his done more for pool in 12months than anyone else in the history of the game ,and the 3 events held so far have been a living dream for the players and its brought pool to a different level..am no 12 on the rankings and am in front and ive had the time of my life in 2 tournaments but the way we were treated and looked after at the events were nothing short of overwhelming...
and i dont want that to stop and nobody else should am sure the ipt as a future ive played english pool for 14 years and been very successful but nothing compares to the ipt
i just think you should all stop jumping to conclusions and asking for kevins neck lets just see what happens and let it all unfold.. we will get paid for reno ,chicagos on lets ride it out and support the ipt!!
support the ipt i say!!
well i think you all need to calm down ,its a new business and any big business starting up is going to hit a few snags (bridges as kevin would say) god ive never read so much rubbish!! yes kevin not done the ipt any favours with late payments and events cancelled etc..but you got to look at the big picture its still got a heart beat the ipt is alive and people need to remember that,i believe kevins working his bollox of to get it back on track so i think we should all get behind him and the ipt because its pool last chance at the big time in my opinion and like john said his done more for pool in 12months than anyone else in the history of the game ,and the 3 events held so far have been a living dream for the players and its brought pool to a different level..am no 12 on the rankings and am in front and ive had the time of my life in 2 tournaments but the way we were treated and looked after at the events were nothing short of overwhelming...
and i dont want that to stop and nobody else should am sure the ipt as a future ive played english pool for 14 years and been very successful but nothing compares to the ipt
i just think you should all stop jumping to conclusions and asking for kevins neck lets just see what happens and let it all unfold.. we will get paid for reno ,chicagos on lets ride it out and support the ipt!!
support the ipt i say!!
john schmidt said:
John good call..............and congrats!
Hopefully KT will get the Tour back on track.........SO all of the fellow players can begin to hope they can make a living from the Sport they Love!
The US Open is a cool event to win...........if I remember correctly next years entry is on the house!
Robin Dodson
IPT was/is a gamble....Win Some, Lose Some
Every pool player that ever picked up a cue knows about winning and losing and the risk involved. Unless you are a lock player or hustler then you know the risks involved in gambling. IPT was/is new and therefore there are obvious risks involved. It's like taking a chance playing a new face and not knowing the line on your opponent. The ones that are crying about the IPT are the ones that are used to having a "lock" in their favor. In most cases many of the players probably had someone helping them with their expenses/qualifier costs. Pool players are greedy as a general rule and many want things given to them cause they feel they somehow "deserve" for their stakehorses and friends to put up their money for them to play. I'm not saying all players are the same but I do feel that there is probably only a small amount that actually went out of their own pockets, after all many pool players can't come up with a 1000 to play a qualifier or 2000 for a tour card qualifier. It sucks that pool players have to struggle, but they chose it as a career choice and have been in it long enough to know it isn't an easy line of work and that it isn't very profitable. I truly hope IPT makes it, even with smaller prize funds it would be a great start. The productions and online updates are first class. The website is well managed and very informative. There has been a lot of effort put into the production of the tournaments. This truly is the best thing to happen to pool and would be a shame for it not to work, but even if it doesn't maybe it will inspire someone to pick up where IPT leaves off if the IPT truly is over. IPT was a gamble and should have been viewed as such from the beginning. I've often been owed money from a bet that I either never get or from someone who is slow to pay up. It's practically the same thing. It's sad that Trudeau didn't post up the money, and that the pool world decided to play him anyway. I do think he will pay up and hopefully when he does he will continue to donate to the pool world by reviving what he started. The pool world was sure it had a sucker (Trudeau)...now only time will tell if that easy money will keep coming. Just remember, before Trudeau who was there to hustle for big money???????
Every pool player that ever picked up a cue knows about winning and losing and the risk involved. Unless you are a lock player or hustler then you know the risks involved in gambling. IPT was/is new and therefore there are obvious risks involved. It's like taking a chance playing a new face and not knowing the line on your opponent. The ones that are crying about the IPT are the ones that are used to having a "lock" in their favor. In most cases many of the players probably had someone helping them with their expenses/qualifier costs. Pool players are greedy as a general rule and many want things given to them cause they feel they somehow "deserve" for their stakehorses and friends to put up their money for them to play. I'm not saying all players are the same but I do feel that there is probably only a small amount that actually went out of their own pockets, after all many pool players can't come up with a 1000 to play a qualifier or 2000 for a tour card qualifier. It sucks that pool players have to struggle, but they chose it as a career choice and have been in it long enough to know it isn't an easy line of work and that it isn't very profitable. I truly hope IPT makes it, even with smaller prize funds it would be a great start. The productions and online updates are first class. The website is well managed and very informative. There has been a lot of effort put into the production of the tournaments. This truly is the best thing to happen to pool and would be a shame for it not to work, but even if it doesn't maybe it will inspire someone to pick up where IPT leaves off if the IPT truly is over. IPT was a gamble and should have been viewed as such from the beginning. I've often been owed money from a bet that I either never get or from someone who is slow to pay up. It's practically the same thing. It's sad that Trudeau didn't post up the money, and that the pool world decided to play him anyway. I do think he will pay up and hopefully when he does he will continue to donate to the pool world by reviving what he started. The pool world was sure it had a sucker (Trudeau)...now only time will tell if that easy money will keep coming. Just remember, before Trudeau who was there to hustle for big money???????
fasteddienc said:
Ugggghh.. Went....errrgg.. blind.....due..to...gaccckkk... severe eye strain......no ......line.....breaks......
Russsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
gabesmom said:
Gabesmom knows her baby and I'm bring her post up to the top of this pile so you have a chance to read it again. She has stated the gestalt of the championship pool players mind nicely. All of these top players have seen this situation many times over in the long rough road they traveled to excellence. They realize that the sum of the parts of the IPT could be more than the sum of its parts. It is worth their patients, composure, and their support until the action has run its course. The IPT has reached for the stars and it ain't over till it's over. The gestalt of the pool players mind has them in a good space to deal with this rough road situation. Hang tough guys, the sugar daddy may pull this off......to your benefit...only time will tell. My best wishes to all the pros that post and read here at the AZ.
Keep in mind that if, and a big if it could be, the IPT does get over that tipping point of viability you players that hung tough will have a great feeling in your guts and a great place to show your speed.....and if it all goes to hell in a hand basket you'll all just have to go back to hauling them bags of sand......I have my fingers crossed for a good out come to this bump in the road.
P.S. Way to go John.......
my personal comments
My position on the IPT is really at the even point. I probably spent the same amount on attending three events that I physically got paid from the one that I collected on. By saying this even though Im not stuck anything but time I want to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed all three events. All have trully been first class and I know from talking to fellow IPT members everyone is thinking this thing is gonna pan out. Like gabes mom said every pool player has experienced "slow pay" whether being owed or owing and this is so different because in any new business there definitly is going to be bumps, delays, and unexpected things happen that next time may benefit us. Who knows what might happen for one of us players that got exposure in the future and regardless of what happens thats another thing everybody got that made it far enough in the tournament for this to happen. I know one fellow player that got a huge increase in endorsements because of all the attention that was drawn to the IPT in the beginning. With that being said alot of players have benefited tremendosley already with only playing in three events that they wouldnt benefit in playing in a hundred of these other tournaments that first place pays "barely" enough to cover expenses. I do feel the concerns that many have expressed on here over the last few weeks but Im with John and Gabes mom and for the continous of the IPT and for giving Kevin a chance. I can only speak on the way he and his staff has treated me and not what he did in his past. They treated me with class and invited me to play with the best players in the world and for that I am very greatful. They also have responded to every email that I have sent them in reference to the dealy on checks and any other questions that I might have and at this point that shows "good faith" to me. John Macias
My position on the IPT is really at the even point. I probably spent the same amount on attending three events that I physically got paid from the one that I collected on. By saying this even though Im not stuck anything but time I want to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed all three events. All have trully been first class and I know from talking to fellow IPT members everyone is thinking this thing is gonna pan out. Like gabes mom said every pool player has experienced "slow pay" whether being owed or owing and this is so different because in any new business there definitly is going to be bumps, delays, and unexpected things happen that next time may benefit us. Who knows what might happen for one of us players that got exposure in the future and regardless of what happens thats another thing everybody got that made it far enough in the tournament for this to happen. I know one fellow player that got a huge increase in endorsements because of all the attention that was drawn to the IPT in the beginning. With that being said alot of players have benefited tremendosley already with only playing in three events that they wouldnt benefit in playing in a hundred of these other tournaments that first place pays "barely" enough to cover expenses. I do feel the concerns that many have expressed on here over the last few weeks but Im with John and Gabes mom and for the continous of the IPT and for giving Kevin a chance. I can only speak on the way he and his staff has treated me and not what he did in his past. They treated me with class and invited me to play with the best players in the world and for that I am very greatful. They also have responded to every email that I have sent them in reference to the dealy on checks and any other questions that I might have and at this point that shows "good faith" to me. John Macias