I Keep Scooping The Cue Ball..............

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
why do i do that all the time anymore? i am talking about when you want to hit a draw shot, attempt to hit it low, and instead of a good, clean hit you scoop the cue ball off the table.

i do it alot with my Jacoby Cue, it has an everest tip. my Chad Carter Cue and Cuetec SST Shaft both have the softer elkmaster tip, but i even do it with them on occassion.

just wondering what causes this? any of you other posters ever get into the habit of doing this?

DCP
 
I've got a Everest on my cue and this never happens. Its a lot more to do with your stroke than the tip. I'm guessing you might need to lower your backhand a bit and try to keep the cue more level.
 
DCP...Obviously you're trying to hit the CB TOO low! Here's an easy fix. Take the 9 or 13, and put the stripe horizontal to the table. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom edge of the stripe. This maximum draw, and the chalk mark will show up easily on the yellow or orange stripe. If the chalk mark is on the white, you're hitting the table first, and scooping the CB.
Also recheck your preshot routine. Stop at the CB...slow or smooth backswing...and loose grip on the forward stroke, to the finish position.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
deep said:
I've got a Everest on my cue and this never happens. Its a lot more to do with your stroke than the tip. I'm guessing you might need to lower your backhand a bit and try to keep the cue more level.
Click to expand...

I agree, back hand to high.
 
Scott Lee said:
DCP...Obviously you're trying to hit the CB TOO low! Here's an easy fix. Take the 9 or 13, and put the stripe horizontal to the table. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom edge of the stripe. This maximum draw, and the chalk mark will show up easily on the yellow or orange stripe. If the chalk mark is on the white, you're hitting the table first, and scooping the CB.
Also recheck your preshot routine. Stop at the CB...slow or smooth backswing...and loose grip on the forward stroke, to the finish position.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
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Your stroke is most likely not straight. The correct way to draw is to slightly raise your back hand and then stroke completely through the ball. (I know you understand how to draw the ball, just sometimes we forget to raise our back hand and stroke through the ball.)
 
Scooping the CB is basically a result of a miscue by applying low english. To prevent a miscue, you need as much static friction between the cue tip and CB as possible.

There are two ways to increase the amount friction between tip and CB. First, you can increase the friction properties of the cue tip. This can be done by adding more chalk. If the chalk does not stick well to the tip, sanding to make the surface more rough may help.

The second way to increase the amount of friction is to increase the amount of surface area that is in contact between the CB and cue tip. This may mean rounding off your cue tip, or keeping the cue as level as possible. This may also mean just not hitting the CB as low.
 
When I break down fundamentally, I also miscue when drawing from time to time but thanks to the help of my mentor, I've been able to recognize the problem and fix it immediately. First of all, when your cb jumps up when trying to draw, it's a miscue, and one of the main factors of a miscue is either not enough chalk, a poorly shaped tip, or both. If neither of these are the cause, then most likely, you're shooting down on the ball. Quite contrary to what many believe, you can hit that cb ball much lower than you could imagine without miscueing if it's done with a good stroke. If you're stroking down on the cb, then like other posters have mentioned, there's a good chance that your grip hand needs to be lowered to level out your cue. My problem wasn't that my grip hand needed to be lowered, but closer to what Marissa stated...................I wasn't following through in the way that I thought I was. let's say that I was striking the cb about 1cm above the rag, but by not following through properly, my tip was ending up on the rag after the follow through. I was actually following through, but my tip was tapering down towards the rag as the cue came to a stop (shooting down on the cb). When my draw breaks down, I actually try to keep my tip 'higher' yet at the same height at which I strike the cb with all the way to the finish. In other words, if I tip the cb 1cm above the cloth, then I keep my tip in the air, 1 cm above the cloth all the way through instead of letting it come to rest on the cloth. This has helped me to correct my draw without fail every time I sense that I'm starting to break down. Works for me.
 
Where is your bridge at?

When you apply draw are you lowering your bridge? When I use BHE I always lower or raise my bridge hand for follow and draw shots so that the cue is as close to parallel to the playing surface as possible. If you don't there is a greater liklihood of miscuing.
 
Scott Lee said:
DCP...Obviously you're trying to hit the CB TOO low! Here's an easy fix. Take the 9 or 13, and put the stripe horizontal to the table. Aim the top edge of your tip at the bottom edge of the stripe. This maximum draw, and the chalk mark will show up easily on the yellow or orange stripe. If the chalk mark is on the white, you're hitting the table first, and scooping the CB.
Also recheck your preshot routine. Stop at the CB...slow or smooth backswing...and loose grip on the forward stroke, to the finish position.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Listen to Scott, DCP...he helped me with my miscue draws. Several things were making me scoop....

I was hitting too low. Why? Because my stroke was out of whack (Scott fixed that) AND because my eyes were aging and I couldn't see up close as well as I once could. I had to really focus on knowing, not just seeing, where the tip would hit the cueball. This required me to somewhat disregard the vision and integrate the reality of the situation, something punksters don't understand. It takes time to really know where the hit will occur when you can't see it properly. Take that time.

When I now get out of whack, I do this: I set up a draw shot where the butt of my cuestick is resting on the rail, but I can still get a good grip on it without hitting my hand on the rail. I then consciously lower my bridge until the tip is where Scott says to put it. Then I force my grip hand to keep my stick sliding along the rail as I shoot. This keeps the tip from dipping or my grip hand from rising. You'll be surprised at how much draw you can get doing this technique with very little power in your stroke. That sets the stage for improvement.

One other thing to help get away from this problem is to start your practice draws with the cueball close to the object ball and first do short drawbacks, then increase distances. This builds confidence and trains your eyes/brain coordination as you go for longer and longer draw shots. This confidence will transmute into your game play. At least it does for me.

Jeff Livingston
 
Scooping cue ball

Scott nailed the problem--as expected. A properly chalked tip will rarely cause this problem, regardless of brand. You're hitting the cloth before contacting the cb. Usually caused by poor stroke/follow thru or trying to do more with the cue ball than the shot allows. Keep an angle and you will have less need for that much extreme english. If the OB is not close to the pocket you will probably miss it anyway.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
why do i do that all the time anymore? i am talking about when you want to hit a draw shot, attempt to hit it low, and instead of a good, clean hit you scoop the cue ball off the table.

i do it alot with my Jacoby Cue, it has an everest tip. my Chad Carter Cue and Cuetec SST Shaft both have the softer elkmaster tip, but i even do it with them on occassion.

just wondering what causes this? any of you other posters ever get into the habit of doing this?

DCP
Click to expand...


Scott's assessment seems best. The only thing I'd like to add to it is that you don't need to aim too low to get the cue to draw. Also, if you're thinking 'mis-cue', you're likely going to mis-cue. Just like, if you're thinking 'miss', you're gonna miss. Try thinking 'beautifully executed draw-shot' and see what happens. Of course, there are always equipment issues. If your tip is down to the width of construction paper or if you're using a tip you got at K-Mart, you might want to consider taking care of this. However, assuming everything is in decent shape, it's likely happening because you're thinking about it.

Remember, the difference between drawing the cue-ball back 10-feet and mis-cueing can be the smallest fraction of an inch. Try thinking positive, as though you were simply giving auto-pilot a bit of a nudge. It really is difficult to consciously correct. The best way is simply to believe you're not going to have a problem.
 
Doug said:
Scott nailed the problem--as expected. A properly chalked tip will rarely cause this problem, regardless of brand. You're hitting the cloth before contacting the cb. (snip).
Click to expand...

I've been told, by several players who should know better, that if you miscue you ALWAYS hit the cloth first---NOT true. I NEVER have a mark on my tip from hitting the cloth when I miscue...NEVER. Which means I am NOT hitting the cloth first, last, or in-between, yet I miscued. This "truism" ain't necessarily true.

Another suggestion for DCP: Ray Martin, in the 99 Critical Shots book, suggests imagining a cueball about 5 inches or so in front of the actual cueball and stroke your cuestick to "hit" that imagined cueball. In my younger days, this helped me as much as any advice I'd had up to then.

Jeff Livingston
 
DCP:

I often scoop the CB if I snap my wrist just before contact.

I don't know where I picked it up, but it's a hard habit to break. Prolly from reading Mosconi's little red book forty years ago, where he describes a "spring action" stroke.

If I keep my wrist still, I stroke straighter, and have a more powerful draw.
 
JohnnyP said:
DCP:

I often scoop the CB if I snap my wrist just before contact.

I don't know where I picked it up, but it's a hard habit to break. Prolly from reading Mosconi's little red book forty years ago, where he describes a "spring action" stroke.

If I keep my wrist still, I stroke straighter, and have a more powerful draw.
Click to expand...

It's that dam BHE.
 
Seems you're all moddycoddling DCP.

Learning to draw low without miscueing is really a matter of trial and error. He should just try a bit more. If he's got half a brain he can read many articles or threads about the theories of drawing a CB. He's been around here a while and if he's still jumping the CB he's either not practicing or he's got no talent.

SO DCP, practice or give up, or try to enjoy being a mediocre player.
 
Scott Lee said:
...and loose grip on the forward stroke, to the finish position.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

This is the cause of jumping balls when shooting draw shots for me. I found a while ago that I had developed a "clutch", tightening up my grip and yanking up my elbow at the very last minute before contacting the cue ball. Up until I hit the cue ball everything looks fine and my grip is medium-loose, but at the moment of contact it all changed dramatically.

The really frustrating thing is I thought I had identified and eliminated this problem in my mechanics a year ago, and then last night I did it three times. Sometimes it seems my muscle-memory just seems to fall into old patterns and I have to consciously force it to switch to newer ones.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Seems you're all moddycoddling DCP.

Learning to draw low without miscueing is really a matter of trial and error. He should just try a bit more. ...
Click to expand...
It depends on what he's trying. I suspect DCP's fundamentals are horribly broken. If he practices that way, his fundamentals will remain horribly broken.

I'm reminded of a student I had who played for draw by addressing the cue ball at it's center. He got the draw by elevating his stick on the final stroke. He was totally, completely and absolutely oblivious to the fact that he was raising his elbow. Should that student try to change? I think that aiming one place and hitting somewhere else is a recipe for mediocrity, Francisco Bustamante obviously excepted. But this guy was no Bustamante. If he could have controlled his draw like that, maybe he shouldn't worry about floppy elbow, but one of his main problems was totally inconsistent draw.
 
AuntyDan said:
This is the cause of jumping balls when shooting draw shots for me. I found a while ago that I had developed a "clutch", tightening up my grip and yanking up my elbow at the very last minute before contacting the cue ball. Up until I hit the cue ball everything looks fine and my grip is medium-loose, but at the moment of contact it all changed dramatically.

QUOTE]

This is the most common problem that I've seen from teaching. Although I'm not teaching any longer I believe it still is the most common fault. Once that grip tightens up it sets off a chain reaction which include moving up your upper arm and shoulder. It's easy to see.

For some it varies to a degree including a rushed backswing and fast forward progression. Nothing can help once it's set in motion. Rush back and you will start forward to fast. This alone makes the grip want to tighten just to hold on to the cue. Remember slow back and slow forward, it varies from player to player but it simply means slow down.

I think the key is the player just isn't sure or positive what they want to do. Or they do know but it may be to much for their current playing level. If any doubt creeps in then we do what is common, react. That reaction is not going to be a nice fluid stroke "through" the c/b. It will be more similar to what I call "A Clean and Jerk". LOL

So you start back from square one, set up short draw shots (ball to ball) and increase the distance you draw each time. When you mess up the distance go back to where you have control. Its nothing new, there a variety of drills to build on. Then increase the ball distance etc. Once your fairly sure of what you can handle use that as a measure during competition. If you try something over your head you'll be sure to end up back or near where you started.:( When you play within yourself it sure makes the game more fun. Use that and the drills to build your confidence. Then you'll start seeing improvement because your hitting the c/b exactly where you intended. I don't think taking a diviot out of the table is in anyone's wildest imagination of being even remotely close to where you started at address. :D

Rod
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Last edited:
Ok, draw for dummies by Mikko:
-Remember to chalk up
-Maintain your tip, don't let it get shiny or too flat/round
-Don't aim too low
-Let the cue do all the work, you don't need to use more arm to get a proper draw
-Don't tighten up on the last stroke, relaxed and smooth stroke will get you more draw, you don't need to use all your muscle power to draw the rock, tightening up will just decrease the cue speed.
-Remember to keep your elbow on a steady level on your final backstroke, avoid the swinging elbow draw, you'll hardly hit where you aimed for
-Some players get help from adding a pause on the last backstroke
-Don't jump up, stay down on the shot, you don't need your body to draw the cueball.
-Wrist snap, if you have practised it for years and your timing is right, you can use it, otherwise stick with a locked wrist
-Avoid elevating the cue, check for your cue levelness
-Good followthrough, avoid poking. Make also sure, that your grip is properly aligned enabling a good followthrough, don't grip too close to the joint.

Ok, did I forget something ? :)
 
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