i need help banking

DaveInSC said:
I wish bank shots were my problem.

I'm back after a 20 year plus break, and ALL I can do is bank and break. My first night touching a cue since college I banked I believe 11 times and made 10 of them. I don't think I broke dry once.

All I could make was hanging balls other than bank shots. No matter what I did, I missed. Played through high school and college on bar tables, now I'm on these behemoth tables squinting to see down the long rail well enough to see the ball, let alone see the angles.

Younger guy on the table beside us was trying to get me to play for money. He was playing average, would have waxed me, and I'm sure wasn't playing his best game. I told him I'd play for whatever he wanted to play for, but it was gonna be bank shots only. He declined.

I don't know what is going on. I am just able to see the shot going in, and it does.

Now if I can just shoot "easier" shots, I won't feel like such a loser.
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I feel your pain.

I'm having the exact same problem you're having, only with a layoff of closer to 40 years than 20.
 
8ballr said:
Exactly...that's my point. Take off the training wheels lol.
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I hear ya. And I get it....you actually think that eventually a great player should be great enough to kick and bank any shot simply by rote. But there's an infinite number of shots, which makes this an impossible task. Even a well seasoned pro with 40 years of table time hasn't mastered every bank or multi-rail kick shot by heart, which is why they ALL utilize the diamonds when needed.

The better players, the ones that aren't looking for help with their banking or kicking, know how to use those diamonds. Sure we don't need em on many one-rail banks, as the angles are easily seen/recognized. But the diamonds serve as a great tool for kicks and odd banks and combos and cut shots. This tool is available for all players, yet very few understand how it works.
 
BC21 said:
I hear ya. And I get it....you actually think that eventually a great player should be great enough to kick and bank any shot simply by rote. But there's an infinite number of shots, which makes this an impossible task. Even a well seasoned pro with 40 years of table time hasn't mastered every bank or multi-rail kick shot by heart, which is why they ALL utilize the diamonds when needed.

The better players, the ones that aren't looking for help with their banking or kicking, know how to use those diamonds. Sure we don't need em on many one-rail banks, as the angles are easily seen/recognized. But the diamonds serve as a great tool for kicks and odd banks and combos and cut shots. This tool is available for all players, yet very few understand how it works.
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Knowing the shots is what separates the men from the boys...or the good from the great...the paint by numbers from the Picassos.
 
8ballr said:
Knowing the shots is what separates the men from the boys...or the good from the great...the paint by numbers from the Picassos.
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Wonder why this sort of bratty attitudes get into pool
Too many casuals playing 8ball thinking they're a big man playing on a baby table , playing baby games that the first shot of the game is based on luck
Hit it hard and HOPE something drops
 
beneath_the_sur said:
Wonder why this sort of bratty attitudes get into pool
Too many casuals playing 8ball thinking they're a big man playing on a baby table , playing baby games that the first shot of the game is based on luck
Hit it hard and HOPE something drops
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Eh? You're lumping us all in with that guy? I've never heard this nonsense about the diamonds before from anyone but snooker players. What do snooker players know about playing pool cushions anyway? The flat nosed cushions of a snooker table give very predictable angles at all speeds, while pool and carom cushions are much more responsive and difficult. You STILL have people in the snooker world saying spin can't be transferred to the object ball, because in snooker it's close to a non-issue as far as banks are concerned! Even Steve Davis looked lost on the pool table on some occations when a bank had to be shortned etc...And Steve actually played pool a lot.

Idiots are all around us, and they don't all play pool...What kind of idiot thinks the diamond systems are so accurate it's cheating, anyway? The same table, even a heated carom table can bank differently on different days! A cushion may be different from the others in some way etc...Not to mention changes in humidity that can happen over the course of the day. I've never seen a perfect system anyway. Even if the conditions are stable, a system usually works perfectly only in a limited area, and needs substantial adjustments outside of this narrow region and then only with a certain speed and spin. Frequently a shots needs a different kind of speed and spin in order to achieve the desired result, and then you need to adjust anyway.

Diamonds are forever, and should remain forever on the rails of a proper US pool table.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Eh? You're lumping us all in with that guy? I've never heard this nonsense about the diamonds before from anyone but snooker players. What do snooker players know about playing pool cushions anyway? The flat nosed cushions of a snooker table give very predictable angles at all speeds, while pool and carom cushions are much more responsive and difficult. You STILL have people in the snooker world saying spin can't be transferred to the object ball, because in snooker it's close to a non-issue as far as banks are concerned! Even Steve Davis looked lost on the pool table on some occations when a bank had to be shortned etc...And Steve actually played pool a lot.

Idiots are all around us, and they don't all play pool...What kind of idiot thinks the diamond systems are so accurate it's cheating, anyway? The same table, even a heated carom table can bank differently on different days! A cushion may be different from the others in some way etc...Not to mention changes in humidity that can happen over the course of the day. I've never seen a perfect system anyway. Even if the conditions are stable, a system usually works perfectly only in a limited area, and needs substantial adjustments outside of this narrow region and then only with a certain speed and spin. Frequently a shots needs a different kind of speed and spin in order to achieve the desired result, and then you need to adjust anyway.

Diamonds are forever, and should remain forever on the rails of a proper US pool table.
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Tell me something I don't know.
 
deanoc said:
after all these years I realize i just bank poorly

is there something that could actually help me
i tend to hit my banks short

also i only play one pocket so i need to bank pocket speed
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First of all Dean, you need to have a different conversation with yourself than "I just bank poorly." That is a self fulfilling prophecy when you make a statement like that. How about, "I know I can learn to bank better!"

If you tend to bank balls short, practice aiming them a little bit longer and try to find the right angle for each bank by hitting it over and over until you do. Just like any other shot, a bank shot takes practice to find the range. There are no gimmes in banks, any shot can be missed.

One brief bit of advice, the softer you hit a bank the longer or wider it will go. The harder you hit it the more it will shorten up. Outside English opens up a bank and inside English tightens the angle. Freddie's books are the best!

P.S. I love to Bank! The first time I ever saw Eddie Taylor play he was giving Joe Burns (the best banker in Dayton) 9-6 and I couldn't believe it. I thought Joe was so damn good. They were playing for 50 a game, a big bet back then and Taylor ran nine and out the last two games before Joe quit. I couldn't believe what I had just seen and was mesmerized by Taylor's banking ability. I wanted to learn how to bank like that and Ed Tobolowsky (a damn good Bank Pool player) started coaching me off and on. It became my best game and I knocked off a few name players along the way. I kind of took them by surprise. :wink:
 
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Another tip on banking. Diamond tables bank short compared to GCs and other tables, so I've been told by those more knowledgeable than me. :p
 
jay helfert said:
First of all Dean, you need to have a different conversation with yourself than "I just bank poorly." That is a self fulfilling prophecy when you make a statement like that. How about, "I know I can learn to bank better!"

If you tend to bank balls short, practice aiming them a little bit longer and try to find the right angle for each bank by hitting it over and over until you do. Just like any other shot, a bank shot takes practice to find the range. There are no gimmes in banks, any shot can be missed.

One brief bit of advice, the softer you hit a bank the longer or wider it will go. The harder you hit it the more it will shorten up. Outside English opens up a bank and inside English tightens the angle. Freddie's books are the best!

P.S. I love to Bank! The first time I ever saw Eddie Taylor play he was giving Joe Burns (the best banker in Dayton) 9-6 and I couldn't believe it. I thought Joe was so damn good. They were playing for 50 a game, a big bet back then and Taylor ran nine and out the last two games before Joe quit. I couldn't believe what I had just seen and was mesmerized by Taylor's banking ability. I wanted to learn how to bank like that and Ed Tobolowsky (a damn good Bank Pool player) started coaching me off and on. It became my best game and I knocked off a few name players along the way. I kind of took them by surprise. :wink:
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In '99 Eddie was in Tulsa as Jim McDermott's(Magoo's owner) guest of honor at the CamelTour event. One day ET came in while we were drinkin' coffee and bs'n. Now, Eddie is like 80-81 at the time and he proceeded to put on a DISPLAY of banking wizardry. We just sat there slackjawed as the banks went in from everywhere. I can't even imagine how good he played in his prime. Super guy as well, didn't know us at all but he sat in our bs session like he'd been there forever. True gentleman.
 
thanks to all you guys who have offered advice on banking

i spent some time with eddie taylor ,not getting lessons
but he did show me several shots

he would set them up and fire them in

as far as i know,he was the best

it was never the time or place to get a lesson,i wish it had been

all i got to see was eddie shooting a few tough shots

when i was a kid i saw eddie ,wimpy and jersey red on a tv show

as the years went by ,i met them and enjoyed hearing the old stories

red tried to help me draw my ball better
but i was not a good student

now that i don't get to play high all the time
i have been wanting to improve

sounds backward to you?

as a young guy,i realized that good players didn't get much action
and poor players did

so i never worried about getting to be a great player
i setlled to match up and win n money

Red and Ediee both agreed that I was doing the right thing

It amazed them to see how much people would spot me and
how often I won

Now that the days of action are over,and i am too old to travel or stay out late
allt hat is left is to try and learn something and see if i can

again thanks for the advice from the guys who responded to my request
 
JAM said:
Another tip on banking. Diamond tables bank short compared to GCs and other tables, so I've been told by those more knowledgeable than me. :p
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The older red-label versions really banked short. The current models still play a little different than a GC but not like the older ones.
 
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