i want your opinions!

gwjackal

Paradigm Cue Sports
Silver Member
Ok, so I am sitting up here at my local pool hall. I have been coming here everyday since I have lived here. It is the only place to shoot on a big table for 4hrs. The owners treat this place like a bar and have run off most if not all of the local regulars who are any good at pool. Most have been driven to the point of just quitting instead of having to come here. I love this game and it is my life but I do not know how or what to say or even if it is my place to say anything. It truly makes me want to sell everything and not look at another pool room again in my life. We have tables that have not been recovered in 3+yrs and tables that if they are taken down never get put back up because the owner is just to damn lazy and will complain about having to work more than 20hrs a week here. During the weekdays we are lucky to have more then 5 people in playing pool and on the weekends it is treated like a bar and caters to the family dart players, meaning the music is cranked to a point I would be better of going to an actual bar for I would be a better atmosphere. I am pissed and completely at a loss on what to do. I have pondered the idea of just opening my own room but that takes money which I don't have. I have thought about moving but the economy here is amazing.

Please ease my mind or tell me just to suck it up I don't care. I just need to here what you would do. Because in my mind a pool hall should be somewhere everyone should feel welcome, but to drive those away that support you the most is unfathomable. But on the other hand without a pool hall here I truly have nothing and no reason to be here. They don't sell liquor, only a small kitchen with a small menu and basic bar fod. We have six GC3's and one that has been in storage for over a year, in place if that table is a table and 4 chairs. We have 2 GC3 converted billiard tables and 8 valley bar boxes all coin op with 3 damn dart boards a game of no skill yet they get preference over others.

An employee that worked here for 25yrs and for at least three owners was fired by there 23yr old son over a pitcher of beer. I mean really wtf!

On top of everything else the league system in north dakota is a joke and not sactioned by anything.

Sorry for the long post but if you got this far thank you! I am just lost here...

Done with my rant....!
 
It seems that this is a common issue almost everywhere. I love my local pool room, and it kills me watching the owner run people off. Hes a really nice guy with a big heart, but even he will tell you he is not a business man. Oh well, Ill keep hoping it works out, but like my dad always told me, hope in one hand and shyt in the other and see which one fills up first! Take it easy Jackal.



Joe
 
I really do feel your pain. It's not that bad here, but it's not that far off either. None of the rooms here care about the players. They don't care that you have been supporting them for the last 20 years. Now, my time in them is cut way back, and when I do go there, I'm usually so disgusted that I can only play about 70-80% of my speed.

I'm trying real hard to keep a good attitude. But it's rough most of the time. I just have to accept that 'real' pool is dead around here. Now, it's just for the bangers and drinkers.

Neil, that's exactly what I mean, this is a beautiful game of grace and poise and I know it is not like this everywhere. At least I hope its not. But are the bad room owners the reason the game is in such a decline? I can't play anywhere near my ability here. I want to relocate but I really love the people here! Its hard to even think about moving somewhere else just for this game and right now I have no responsibility other than playing pool.




<--------------- frustrated!
 
Greg...No real poolroom where I live either. There used to be one, owned by a strong player, but he decided to make it more of a bar. First he took out ALL the 9' tables, but kept a half dozen barboxes, and enlarged the bar, put in a wooden dance floor, and (believe it or not) one of those mechanical bulls...(yeah, lots of cowboys in BC, Michigan! :rolleyes:). Then after a year, he put 1 9' table back in. Now, another year later, and there are two. I guess I should be happy, but the smoke is fierce, and the music VERY loud. I have to drive 1/2 hr to go to a real pool room, but in that one the owner doesn't care much, and the equipment shows it (he's the only game in town, and knows it). So, you see, it's not great in MI either. The bright spot is that you have, in ND, the FINEST poolroom in the United States (Fargo Billiards)! Too bad its 200 miles from you!

The VNEA is huge in SD. I can't believe they're not in ND too. If not, go to the local vendor, who puts barboxes in taverns, and suggest starting a VNEA league. I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it might be a way to get pool rolling in Minot again. Do you still have the 'private club', where we worked, available to you? At least that was a quality table, and decent place to play. Hope to see you again in Sept. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Ok, so I am sitting up here at my local pool hall. I have been coming here everyday since I have lived here. It is the only place to shoot on a big table for 4hrs. The owners treat this place like a bar and have run off most if not all of the local regulars who are any good at pool. Most have been driven to the point of just quitting instead of having to come here. I love this game and it is my life but I do not know how or what to say or even if it is my place to say anything. It truly makes me want to sell everything and not look at another pool room again in my life. We have tables that have not been recovered in 3+yrs and tables that if they are taken down never get put back up because the owner is just to damn lazy and will complain about having to work more than 20hrs a week here. During the weekdays we are lucky to have more then 5 people in playing pool and on the weekends it is treated like a bar and caters to the family dart players, meaning the music is cranked to a point I would be better of going to an actual bar for I would be a better atmosphere. I am pissed and completely at a loss on what to do. I have pondered the idea of just opening my own room but that takes money which I don't have. I have thought about moving but the economy here is amazing.

Please ease my mind or tell me just to suck it up I don't care. I just need to here what you would do. Because in my mind a pool hall should be somewhere everyone should feel welcome, but to drive those away that support you the most is unfathomable. But on the other hand without a pool hall here I truly have nothing and no reason to be here. They don't sell liquor, only a small kitchen with a small menu and basic bar fod. We have six GC3's and one that has been in storage for over a year, in place if that table is a table and 4 chairs. We have 2 GC3 converted billiard tables and 8 valley bar boxes all coin op with 3 damn dart boards a game of no skill yet they get preference over others.

An employee that worked here for 25yrs and for at least three owners was fired by there 23yr old son over a pitcher of beer. I mean really wtf!

On top of everything else the league system in north dakota is a joke and not sactioned by anything.

Sorry for the long post but if you got this far thank you! I am just lost here...

Done with my rant....!
 
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i had a poolroom/bar for 13 years. i opened it up so players in the area would have a great place to play in tournaments and leagues. i also did it for myself because the bar that did cater to pool in the area sold out to someone that really didn't care. i wanted to have someplace fun for myself.

i got ran out of town by the local police, that's another story, but there has never been a good place in the area since. it's really a shame.

open a place. something small and work it all yourself and build it up and then make it bigger. you need to always be promoting something and have something going on. that is the secret.

good luck...............do it..............
 
GW, you say you don't have money to open your own pool hall, but maybe down the road you could invest in your current home room. Become a part-owner and show them how things should be done. Strike an agreement with the current owner, stating that you'll take care of the pool side of things, and he can deal with the rest (since he obviously has no interest in concerning himself with the billiards aspect).

And if that doesn't work ... head east, and meet me in Grand Forks. I live 7 minutes away from Crosstown Billiards, which isn't exactly awe inspiring, but it's a nice, well-maintained establishment. Four 7' Valleys, and one 9' Valley that are 100% free all day, every day. In addition, there's 4-5 more coin-op tables, and a spacious pool area complete with plenty of seating is separate from the main bar area - which allows the drinkers to drink, and the pool players to shoot. The wait staff is friendly, the kitchen has decent food, and the drinks are very well priced. The best part though: the place is owned by a pool fanatic, so the tables get good care and the cloth is replaced on a fairly regular basis.
 
Up here table time doesn't pay the bills. Pool room owners up here need to get their money from somewhere else such as alcohol and music... I'd assume it's pretty much the same where you are. Its either no poolhall at all, or a bar with loud music that happens to have some tables.
 
Management will reap what they sow. Some random thoughts:

(1) Ask management to run in-house leagues and/or tournaments. Perhaps offer to help out. Around here the tournaments are usually run by someone who doesn't work for the place and they get perks such as: free entry or free drinks or free food. If it's free entry, then you can't have 100% payout unless the management ponys up their entry fee (e.g., if 16 players with a $10 entry fee -- payout is usually $100 for first, $50 for second and $10 for third). Also, some places will give entrants a show up drink for free (i.e., the same as the first drink that they buy).

Management usually covers the table time (green fees) which often includes a half-hour of warm up time but some take a cut of the entry fees and don't pay back 100% of the entry fees. If bar tables are being used they either: (a) take off the coin-op mechanism and collect the quarters first and the entrants drop the balls themselves, or (b) the tournament director is given a bunch of quarters to dole out to to the entrants for each match.

(2) Most tournaments are double elimination. However, one of my favorite tournament formats is a line-tournament. Requires that you have half the number of tables as you have players. Say you have 14 tables available, that would allow up to 28 players.

For 8-ball it's half an hour warm up. Then everyone is seeded by the tournament director (TD). All games start at the same time. The top seeded pair starts on table one, the next pair on table two, all the way down to the last pair on the last table (requires an even number of players). Then when all games are finished and the results reported to the TD, the winners move up one table number and the losers move down a table (the winner on table 1 stays put and the looser on the bottom table stays put) and the second set of games begins. Repeat for a set time period and play as many games as you can. Usually in 2 1/2 hrs. can get in 6-8 games of 8-ball.

For 9-ball play a race to 2 for each match.

Payouts are given according to the total number of matches won and anyone can win regardless of their skill level. So it's important that the TD keep track of peoples skill levels over time and properly seeds the players as to which table they start on (and doesn't let new comers under rate themselves and start at too low a table number). The TD keeps track of people and varies their rating over time from D- to A+ as needed (most people are C- to B+). And, if someone is always blowing everyone away on table one and winning every week -- don't allow them to compete every week, ban them all together or handicap them somehow.

(3) If management won't go for (1) or (2) above and dedicate certain times of the week to leagues/tournaments. Maybe start an individuals league (versus teams) that has a schedule like a racquetball league I used to belong to. The schedule listed pairs of people that were supposed to play each other during a given week. Each pair of people was responsible for contacting each other to arrange a time to play each week.

There were three levels of league (beginners, intermediate and advanced) for men and two levels for women (beginnners and intermediate). Depends on how many people you have and what level they are. At the end of each session there would be a finals where the top 3 players (total wins) in each league would have a round-robin playoff with each other while others watched during a group BBQ party (which means that any missed matches had to be made up before the finals were held or you forfeited your chance to win games to qualify for the playoffs).

I played right-handed in the intermediate league and left-handed in the beginners league.

(4) If you can, buy a table for home and connect with other locals in the area that have home tables. Affordable used ones are available around here on Craigslist. Or, find a table mechanic/mover in the area and ask them to keep an eye out. You'll maybe need someone anyway to help you move it and set it up. Unless it's a barbox and you have a trailer and can move it in one piece.

Maybe start an individuals league as mentioned above (independent of the pool hall without their sponsorship) with other people with home tables. Play each other twice (once at your home and once at theirs). Maybe people without home tables could be included and pay for table time at the pool hall when it's their turn to host (or, if you have your own home table, you could choose to host at the pool hall if you don't want a certain person coming into your home).
 
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There are some spots you just wont like bro, it can't be helped. Make your own pool hall, but do it ten times better than him.
 
That s the same like here,too-
I would love to see more really good pool-halls. But in germany it is extremly hard to *keep them alive*. Here you can be happy if you find a club to be able to train and spend the few time you have to play pool. In pool-halls it s hard to train, because it s expensive to really make training there affordable.
For pool-hall-owners it is of course a hard life-and the pool-hall-owners can t live from *pool-addicted* players-because they want to spend the whole day on playin pool without paying (absolutley no offense to the owners!!!). So it is really difficult for both sides in our times,where the ppl have less money than several years ago ....

wish you ll find a way my friend,

INgo
 
It is more than just being catin obvious here. I have tried to talk with the owner and all I or anyone ever get are complaints. I have sat at the bar and watched large groups of kids come in and wonder about for 10-15min before anyone even knows they are there. Arnt the younger groups of kids coming in to play with their friends and family the future of a business. Yes your regular folks will hopefully always be there but if you can't make someone new who just walked in off the street feel like they have been coming here for 10yrs feel comfortable how can you make anyone feel the same. I know you can't please everyone and I had to learn that one the hard way. But if getting a couple who deceided to come to your establishment a soda and making them feel like it is such a chore for you just to do your job, does not make any since.

I have never been anywhere except military citys in asia where pool was a true way of life. I mean everyone here plays and I mean everyone. My room has the female that jusr won ND and MN state singles in 8 ball. That has to say something for the players here.

I am a firm believer that this town could support a room twice the size and do way more than just survive. I wish I could find someone to invest in me so I could save pool here.

Our local league will not even allow us to use the coin op valleys they own to use or run any type of league system as its just to much work even if they don't have to do anything and every valley is a coin op. No VNEA! No ACS! No BCA! Our Thursday night league has just enough into the BCA but only at a certain level.

I know I must sound like a maniac but for once I am really pissed about all this. I love this game and all the people I have met playing this game so much that it really tears me up inside.

Because on the flipside without it I would not have a home room and a pool family here!
 
I am not familiar with your area but if you have no ties to that area other than pool, and the pool sucks, I'd move the 200 miles to the countries best pool hall town. That's near enough that the economy should at least be similar!!!!! Sounds like a place for a pool person to thrive!!!:)


I was referencing Scott Lee's suggestion of Fargo Billiards
 
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in the end its up to the people who actually play this game right? why would you let people who don't care about us determine the conditions we play in?

START YOUR OWN HALL

FORM A POOL PLAYERS UNION <---LOL but hey w.e =P

we need to take action...

or are we just going to whine about the local halls and nowhere to play >.<
 
The sad fact is, most people who play pool are not pool players. They play pool while at the bar, they don't go to the bar to play pool.

I love this game and I'm lucky enough to have a few nice places to play right around me. You never know, something might open up one day and surprise you, good luck.
 
another voice from Michigan

It's funny the number of Michigan guys in this discussion. Being in SW Michigan myself, I agree 100% with what Scott and Neil say. Even going over to the east side (Detroit area), the pool scene is a lot different. More focus on the big table game.

Where I'm at, there's one pool hall in town. It's being progressively run more like a bar than a pool hall though. The focus is on the APA leagues and beer specials, and there hasn't been a big table tournament there in over a year.

I don't know if a "serious" room could even survive in this area any more. We had a nice room here a couple of years ago (I had the opportunity to hit balls with Scott there once) with nice Diamonds and GCs, but the owner didn't have the leagues, and IMHO I don't think there is enough of a "pool player base" left in town to support a room without leagues.

It's just something else to blame on the democrats. :D
 
You never once mention going to another room, like it never occurred to you...

When my local room started to go south and couldn't afford to keep up the equipment, I found a new pool hall. I felt bad, because my friends were there and the owner is the most decent person I know. But I love pool too much to settle. So I drive 20 miles each way at least 3 times a week to play. You can get used to it. Find a buddy and carpool with them.

Once the owner doesn't have his heart in it, I have found that absolutely nothing you can do will change things. Complaining won't do it. Threatening to go elsewhere won't. He has to love pool and want the best atmosphere for players. His priorities aren't going to change because he's convinced catering to the serious players isn't profitable enough. He may be right =/
 
Sounds like and opportunity to me. He has the tables and the room but no ambition. If your willing to put in the time and effort just for the love of the game then its possible to get somewhere. Tell him if he gets the cloth and whatever else the tables need you will do the work. If you don't have some one that knows how to recover the tables just ask a mechanic on this forum. Then start your own money league.You don't need the BCA or the APA. Again, if you need help just ask.There's more pool knowledge in this forum that anywhere in the whole world! Start up a 5$ buy in tournament twice a week. 8 ball and 9 ball. It will be small to start but it will grow. Build it and they will come! People are attracted by enthusiasm.
 
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CreeDo, if it wasn't for literally living in the middle of nowhere. At least 1.5hrs to another town going to another room would be easy. Yes I understand Fargo is 200+ miles from me but that I don't think is the point.

Is there a way perform an intervention on someone who just doesn't care?

Pulzcul, I have offered everything from paying someone to come in and do the tables to offering just to help. His response is always the same. Its like effort is going to kill him. I have went from spending 4+K a month to 200 a month because I can't stand how we get treated. I know not supporting this place will kill it but if that's what it takes so be it.

People just don't want to be around debby downer the owner....
 
I have went from spending 4+K a month to 200 a month because I can't stand how we get treated.

I have offered everything from paying someone to come in and do the tables

Spending 4k a month and you cant afford to open a small room or billiards club? No other business people in the area (other small bar owners?) that might like a stake in this venture? If the local economy is so good people may have some disposable income to spend a few bucks at a obviously needed competing business?


I know not supporting this place will kill it but if that's what it takes so be it.

People just don't want to be around debby downer the owner....

SOunds like the odds of being successful opening a room are on your side.

DUnno, sounds like you love the game, chances are there are others pool lovers lying dormant in your area that just maybe a bit jaded by the local room owner...

SOunds simple saying it on the internet of course.. but fact is, its something you obviously love... no way to gauge from here if your post was built up frustration that just vented for a second in the form of motivation (at least to post this) or if you can see your motivation through... But, you can lay there and bleed or stand up and do something. You stay there and bleed out, your love for the game will die (or be killed might be more accurate)... WHat's the worst that could happen by really trying? Must be something that can be done.
 
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