i want your opinions!

I see where most have replied by suggesting you open your own hall.....i also saw where this is not economically possible for you at this time. May I pose an alternate solution. I knowa few friends that decided to combine their wealth and purchase an old GC. One of them had an outbuilding that was not being used so he agreed to set it up there. All lived within 20 miles and all enjoyed playing together.....it was an ideal arrangement....over time the combined contributions allowed for the addition of a wet bar and large screen TV. A MAN CAVE.....This may or may not be a solution for you......but if others in your area share your desires........who knows?????
 
how about this...

GET A LIFE! PLAY POKER OR SOMETHING! GO RIDE A BIKE! GET A GIRLFRIEND! GOSH!<--- all in the voice of napoleon dynamite...
 
danquixote said:
I see where most have replied by suggesting you open your own hall.....i also saw where this is not economically possible for you at this time. May I pose an alternate solution. I knowa few friends that decided to combine their wealth and purchase an old GC. One of them had an outbuilding that was not being used so he agreed to set it up there. All lived within 20 miles and all enjoyed playing together.....it was an ideal arrangement....over time the combined contributions allowed for the addition of a wet bar and large screen TV. A MAN CAVE.....This may or may not be a solution for you......but if others in your area share your desires........who knows?????
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We do have a man cave but shooting with the same folks still does not fix a problem. And for does nothing for me trying to make some money.

The OP was about 1.5yrs of built up frustration and I know I am not alone. Credit is not on my side due to an ex-wife, lol. I would love to find some investors and open my own room even try to franchise off another ND room
 
Wow, I thought that it was an isolated problem. There is only one room here and it's a nightmare . On top of the loud music that you have to scream at the person next to you. The smoke eaters are useless so breathing and the smell of smoke is horrible...not to mention...no players. I am ready to move, just haven't figured out where yet. I will take a look at all the people who posted here and stay away from those areas. That would be a great thread...best pool rooms , where and why.
 
Falcon Eddie said:
Wow, I thought that it was an isolated problem. There is only one room here and it's a nightmare . On top of the loud music that you have to scream at the person next to you. The smoke eaters are useless so breathing and the smell of smoke is horrible...not to mention...no players. I am ready to move, just haven't figured out where yet. I will take a look at all the people who posted here and stay away from those areas. That would be a great thread...best pool rooms , where and why.
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I can honestly say that the best place I have ever been is Fargo Billiards which is 200+ miles. The ownership, staff and atmosphere are all world class. I have never in my life seen or visited a room like this. But the economy there is not as strong as here. I wish Mike Page could get every room owner in the USA to visit his place and see how great a pool room could be!
 
MJB...Just FYI, it wasn't lack of business that caused Blackbird Billiards to close. It was due to the owner of the strip mall jacking up the rent so high, that it drove out Tim. Too bad, because Tim was a great owner, and ran a player's room! They did have leagues, btw...Mike ran a BCA league, and Tim had no problem with APA being in there. The APA LO just didn't put any effort into recruiting teams from Blackbird (it is, afterall, the LO's responsibility...not the room owners). If you're ever interested in playing some more, let me know, and when I'm home I'd be happy to come over there, or meet you at Jayme's place.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

MJB said:
I don't know if a "serious" room could even survive in this area any more. We had a nice room here a couple of years ago (I had the opportunity to hit balls with Scott there once) with nice Diamonds and GCs, but the owner didn't have the leagues, and IMHO I don't think there is enough of a "pool player base" left in town to support a room without leagues.

It's just something else to blame on the democrats. :D
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I agree with Greg 100% here. Fargo Billiards is a case study in how to set up and run a successful poolroom. Every aspect was thoroughly researched by Mike Page, and so far it has run like clockwork (it's only been open 8 months, but from all appearances everything is going according to plan). I don't know if his concept could be 'franchised' or not, because not everybody has the desire to run things the way Mike does (totally hands on). He CARES...about the game, the players, the equipment, the atmosphere, and especially his employees! Traveling the U.S. for up to 200 days a year, I have the opportunity to see many of the country's nicer poolrooms. Few, if any, imo, can match Fargo Billiards (although I will say that I have seen, and played in, many nice rooms)!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

gwjackal said:
I can honestly say that the best place I have ever been is Fargo Billiards which is 200+ miles. The ownership, staff and atmosphere are all world class. I have never in my life seen or visited a room like this. But the economy there is not as strong as here. I wish Mike Page could get every room owner in the USA to visit his place and see how great a pool room could be!
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State of pool

As business gets tighter and pool rooms close the remaining room owners often choose a "take it or leave it" attitude. Like they are the only game in town and then the playing conditions ultimately suffer. They cater to the APA crowd because they spend money on eating and drinking more than regular players. Players then begin to resent this because they aren't the focus anymore. Eventually this culminates in the inevitable downward spiral.

We had 3 great rooms 4 years ago, now 2 and one is on the ropes. When there is only 1 left it will be the only game in town, the one described above with the attitude towards regulars.

As players we all see it happening, sometimes it feels like the harder we try to hold on the quicker it slips through our grasp.
 
master9baller said:
As business gets tighter and pool rooms close the remaining room owners often choose a "take it or leave it" attitude. Like they are the only game in town and then the playing conditions ultimately suffer. They cater to the APA crowd because they spend money on eating and drinking more than regular players. Players then begin to resent this because they aren't the focus anymore. Eventually this culminates in the inevitable downward spiral.

We had 3 great rooms 4 years ago, now 2 and one is on the ropes. When there is only 1 left it will be the only game in town, the one described above with the attitude towards regulars.

As players we all see it happening, sometimes it feels like the harder we try to hold on the quicker it slips through our grasp.
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From stories of the past the current has had the same attitude since day one. The room gets by because its the only game in town.

Anyone have some ideas how how to turn things around?
 
Our local place started out with, I think, 8 9ft GC's, a couple of 7 ft bar tables and no band stand. Then it added some more 7 ft tables, then a stage, then removed several of the 9 ft tables to put in more 7 ft tables.

Now they've moved down the street. I hear there are no 9 ft tables, a few 7 ft tables, a big stage and dance floor. The music was so loud and the tables so dirty in the old place that I stopped going a long time ago.

The owner is a good guy, a good pool player who loves the game (and doesn't mind playing on dirty tables.. yeah that's a poke in the ribs)
but real pool, played on REAL pool tables, just doesn't pay the bills these days. :groucho: Whadayagunnado.

As for me..... I started to go walk the dog 45 minutes ago so that's what I'm "gunnado". Out.
 
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Been there.
The guy went out of business and his landlord took it over. Remodeled it and has the pool Hall as part of his restaurant. Only place I have ever played at that charges tax on table time.

Since you have a man cave you can start a good ring game. Find a few other individuals places to travel to locally to keep it fresh.

As far as opening a joint of your own. I have looked into this before.
If you were spending 4000.00 a month and now are down to 200.00 I would suggest that you spend six months hoarding your cash. Pool halls go out of business nation wide all the time. Watch Ebay and auction houses. Tables and equipment can be had for cheap. You'd be amazed at how many Brunswicks and equipment you can pick for under 10k.
You could also contact somebody such as Cuephoric who is all over the country working on equipment and always has his eyes open for deals.
Of course the key component is finding a place that has reasonable rent and the proper dimensions for the amount of tables you wish to have. Also consider a beer and wine license and a small kitchen. You'd be amazed how many people will stop in for lunch if the word gets out that you have the best burger in town.
You mayd be opening a pool hall, however you would want the business to multitask for you. IE multiple area's of cash flow.
Also if you have enough room and tables you could house your own APA, TAP, Valley or BCA franchise. Not to mention a private local league.

If the room/building is large enough you could also make a separate area for darts and Texas Holding.

Keep in mind that the Obama administration is supposedly handing out grants to small businesses. Your state may be doing so as well. There is no harm in investigating these areas for start up capital as well.

Just remember good used equipment can be had for cheap all the way around. Good carpeting and electrical work is where you will end up spending money.
If you do decide to move in this direction do the research first. Get all your ducks in a row. Start at the town planning board to see what sort of zoning restrictions there are if any. Then move to potential sites for the hall.
Put a business plan together and have the numbers run by a professional. The local small business development center would be able to help you with this. Assuming there is one in your area. Keep in mind that if you are going for a grant you will need a business plan.

Or

You could move to the Tri Cities area of TN where the economy is good and find all the pool halls and players you could possibly want.

Good luck in what ever you decide.
 
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You're in a tough spot both location-wise and in your dealings with the owner.

Write a letter, with input from other people, explaining your problem with the business. Try to make it more of a plea than an attack. Stress that you're willing to spend the money if he's willing to accomodate the players. Get the letter signed by as many people as you can muster, so he knows it's not just one guy "whining". Suggest a profitable idea that would get you better equipment. And when you present the letter, probably don't do it intervention-style with several people. That'll make him defensive. Just slip it under his office door and give him a day to sleep on it.

======
In my last pool hall we had the concept of "pocket owners". Table 1 was designated as the shooter's table already, and the owner took good care of it. But he needed revenue. So he came up with the idea of allowing players the option of purchasing "pocket owner rights" for 100 bucks a year. A pocket owner could use the table (paying normal table time) whenever he wanted. The table was never rented to bangers and was only rented to non-owners as a last resort... so the cloth stayed fresh longer. In theory, if a non-owner was on the table and a pocket owner came in, he could kick the other guy off (this never was used, thankfully).

Each owner got his name done on a little brass plate that placed near one of the pockets. So the owner's outlay is 6 inexpensive nameplates + reclothing the table at least... say... every 12-18 months. The rest of the 600 bucks goes in his pocket.
 
Ok, I am over my rant but still have a very bad taste in my mouth.

Does anyone have any thoughts how to change the mindset of someone in an owners position?

How would one go about looking for investors? I want this game to thrive where I am now! Not sit idle and watch it die. I know I can do it I just need someone to believe in me as much as I do...
 
gwjackal said:
Ok, so I am sitting up here at my local pool hall. I have been coming here everyday since I have lived here. It is the only place to shoot on a big table for 4hrs. The owners treat this place like a bar and have run off most if not all of the local regulars who are any good at pool. Most have been driven to the point of just quitting instead of having to come here. I love this game and it is my life but I do not know how or what to say or even if it is my place to say anything. It truly makes me want to sell everything and not look at another pool room again in my life. We have tables that have not been recovered in 3+yrs and tables that if they are taken down never get put back up because the owner is just to damn lazy and will complain about having to work more than 20hrs a week here. During the weekdays we are lucky to have more then 5 people in playing pool and on the weekends it is treated like a bar and caters to the family dart players, meaning the music is cranked to a point I would be better of going to an actual bar for I would be a better atmosphere. I am pissed and completely at a loss on what to do. I have pondered the idea of just opening my own room but that takes money which I don't have. I have thought about moving but the economy here is amazing.

Please ease my mind or tell me just to suck it up I don't care. I just need to here what you would do. Because in my mind a pool hall should be somewhere everyone should feel welcome, but to drive those away that support you the most is unfathomable. But on the other hand without a pool hall here I truly have nothing and no reason to be here. They don't sell liquor, only a small kitchen with a small menu and basic bar fod. We have six GC3's and one that has been in storage for over a year, in place if that table is a table and 4 chairs. We have 2 GC3 converted billiard tables and 8 valley bar boxes all coin op with 3 damn dart boards a game of no skill yet they get preference over others.

An employee that worked here for 25yrs and for at least three owners was fired by there 23yr old son over a pitcher of beer. I mean really wtf!

On top of everything else the league system in north dakota is a joke and not sactioned by anything.

Sorry for the long post but if you got this far thank you! I am just lost here...

Done with my rant....!
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I've owned two pool rooms and been partners in two others, and I just don't understand this kind of attitude by an owner. My attitude has always been that without customers (especially regulars) you have no business! HELLO!

I always wanted to cultivate ALL the business I could, even if I had to deal with some negativity from time to time. My feeling has always been that running a pool room and making a decent living doing it, beats the hell out of digging ditches. I've been fortunate and had some fairly successful rooms, but it ain't rocket science! Give people a nice clean environment with some good equipment and friendly (cute helps) staff, and you can make a good living.

I actually think that right now is a good time to open a new room. Rent is cheap, with vacant property everywhere. Equipment can be had at discount prices and lots of good people are looking for jobs. I also think that you will find local jurisdictions looking more favorably at a poolroom/sports bar (the name I prefer). They need to stimulate their own local economy, and any business in a vacant building is better than none at all.

I know that money is tight right now, with a lot of people out of work. But everyone needs some form of recreation, even if it is only once a week or even once a month. You build it, they will come!
 
Thanks for your input Jay.

I would love to build a new place here! But doing so takes one major thing besides motivation it takes money.

How would one go about getting some to invest...

I don't want to rent!

Call me if you have any insight or would want to venture down this road!
 
I sorta feel your pain but I don't experience what your going through at the same level where I am. Here in NYC it's a Metropolis, there are pool rooms in Queens, Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn all roughly 15-20 min to get too. Some halls are great (we refer to those as shooter halls) other halls are those types with the loud music the video games and ping pong and all that other stuff (even some of these have very nice well kept tables). I have lots of options so I dislike one place I can find another.

The hall I shoot at mostly for practice has 9' Brunswick tables and most of them could use a re-felting but the balls are pretty clean and they charge only $2 per hour from Sun-Thursday can't really beat that for practice.

back to your issue. The owner how does he make money? He treats it like a bar yet they sell no Alcohol? Where is the bulk of his income coming from? Find this out and approach it like a business man. Offer to run the pool aspect of the hall and get on the beat setting up tourney's leagues stuff of that nature. Set up a presentation to show the owner how you could make him more money running the Pool aspect then he is. No matter how much of a A**hole the owner is if your showing him how you can make him money he'll listen. Hope you can get something going to jump start the pool community in your area!
 
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