Yes, this is what I mean.
I can't really explain skid any better. It just seems the cue skids off the object ball instead of reacting right away.
If not Simonis, what next?
- Thread starter Shaft
- Start date
Yes, this is what I mean.
I can't really explain skid any better. It just seems the cue skids off the object ball instead of reacting right away.
Simonis sucks, 10 years ago they had a great product the new cloth is the worst. I'm done with it.
I'll argue with you later about this topic Glenn-over a steak dinner at my house, fair enough??:thumbup:
Come on, you know it's an argument you can't win. :grin:
I plan to be out your way the weekend of 6/18 for the wsop - if you're down on trying
something different let me know.
This may be a question for Dr. Dave but it occurs to me that if one cloth grabs the cue ball better after impact with the OB and therefore it takes the draw more quickly, then wouldn't that same cloth also take the back-spin off the cue ball quicker on its way to the OB? The CB would then therefore have less backspin at the moment of impact, resulting in less draw, or at least canceling out to some extent the advantage gained after impact?
Fatboy: What cloth do you use these days? Thanks.
Here's what you do. On your table, shoot the cue ball right down the center of the table through the foot spot, with straight left/right hand english and see how far you can turn the cue ball. Once you've done that 20-30 times so you have a pretty good idea as to what to expect based on speed and stroke. Then go do the same thing on a table with Simonis cloth, preferably with Simonis 860HR, with about the same amount of play on it as the table in your house, then try the same test.
On which ever cloth produces the most turn of the cue ball, that is the cloth that has the most "grab". Try that, and I think you'll be pretty suprised as to which cloth has more grab to it.
Glen
..........and THAT'S why dirty or worn out cloth plays so bad, makes the pockets play even tighter, and causes the balls to spread less on the break.
Glen
jdxprs
Banned
bet·ter1 /ˈbɛtər/ Show Spelled[bet-er] Show IPA
–adjective,compar. of good with best as superl.
1.of superior quality or excellence: a better coat; a better speech.
in my opinion the tour edition on my table has held up BETTER, and plays a bit faster, which is better imo.
In my opinion Simonis is just Simonis and there is nothing that is really close. I have tried a number of the so called next best cloths here in my pool room, but long term none are equal to Simonis 860 HR. for commercial use. Now with that said, I do not believe that anything will work better for home use.
Take care
I think that's great. We're all happy for you. :thumbup:
Of course 3030 plays faster than 860 since it has the same blend as 760
... and will keep getting faster with time. Now you just keep adjusting your game
to that "better" cloth as it speeds up.
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Yes I have tried Tour Edition, owning a Pool Room has many advantages, one of them is that when companies come out with new products they will send you samples to test. Championship contacted me around 3 years or so ago trying to convince me that their product was equal to Simonis under commercial use. So I tested the Tour Edition cloth on one table when I changed cloth, with in a single year of commercial use it was worn more along the break tracks than the Simonis Cloth that was put on at the same time. I would say that over all it is good cloth, but when any manufacturer is comparing their Cloth to another companies cloth even they know who makes the best product. It is kinda like tip's every manufacturer compares their tip's to Moori, and why do they do this? simply because Moori is the industry standard.
Now that Simonis has come out with their HR Series cloth there is nothing equal to it in my opinion.
Take care
Oh, I get it, you don't have any facts to support your opinion that Championship 3030 is a "better" cloth than the Simonis 860HR....because it's just your "opinion" right
Well, have you EVER had the Simonis 860HR cloth on your table before, in order to really give your "opinion" of WHICH cloth is "better"....probably not, right One would think that in order to have formed an "opinion" of which cloth is "better"...one should have tried both kinds of cloths first....in order to have that "opinion"....otherwise....you just THINK the cloth on your table is better, but who knows, had you TRIED the Simonis 860HR....you might just have a different "OPINION"...right? If you'll read what you posted again...and pay close attention, the word "compar" is clearly spelled out!Glen
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
I am at the Super Billiards Expo and I saw this thread so I went and asked a few pros (didn't count, maybe a dozen) what cloth they prefer. All of them said Simonis.
that's a direct quote from a dictionary Glen :grin-square: That's how dictionary entries look like, they can't afford typing all technical remarks full, or those volumes would have weighed three times more... And you know them dictionaries are huge!
True....true, BUT...the meaning of "better" was given as in "compare" the cloths then make the call as to which one is "better"
Glen
Back to the original question.
This thread became a "Simonis is best" debate. That's fine, I appreciate everyone who expressed their opinion.
But, if Simonis was not available, what would you recommend for an 8-ft, outdoor table, protected from sun and rain but exposed to humidity, used mostly for 8-ball and a little for 10-ball?
So far, I have heard Championship Tour 3030 and Gorino Granito. This table will not see lots or wear ot abuse, but I would prefer a cloth that does not "look" too worn too fast (shows burn marks easily).
Thanks
This thread became a "Simonis is best" debate. That's fine, I appreciate everyone who expressed their opinion.
But, if Simonis was not available, what would you recommend for an 8-ft, outdoor table, protected from sun and rain but exposed to humidity, used mostly for 8-ball and a little for 10-ball?
So far, I have heard Championship Tour 3030 and Gorino Granito. This table will not see lots or wear ot abuse, but I would prefer a cloth that does not "look" too worn too fast (shows burn marks easily).
Thanks
Dear Shaft,
Send me your address. I will send you the cut of Milliken Super Pro that you need for your table. If you like it pay for it. If you don't then don't. I am so convinced that it is SUPERIOR to Simonis that I will buy it personally and send it to you.
I just completed four days of having all manner of good to professional class players play on our cloth and there was not one negative comment. Every person that I spoke with and asked them DIRECTLY what they thought of the cloth said that it FELT BETTER than Simonis to play on.
Milliken Super Pro is BETTER THAN Simonis because it plays better from day one, requires no "break-in" period, and it lasts longer showing less wear.
It is less well known because it has been on the market for a short time compared to Simonis' 100 years. Strachan is the mill that makes the SuperPro cloth however and they have been in the billiard cloth business in England as long as Simonis has been in the Billiard cloth business.
We just sold over 100 cuts of cloth this weekend at the Super Billiards Expo to room owners and consumers who either already know from experience what I have said above OR they became converts this past weekend.
So let's stop the talk and walk the walk. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and prove that Milliken is not only a fine alternative to Simonis but that it is in fact the superior one.
John Barton - Employee of Sterling Gaming, the exclusive North American Distributor of Milliken Super Pro Cloth.
Jerry Forsyth,
What did Jeremy Jones, the winner of the Enjoy Pool.com BCA Championships in 2008 say about the Milliken Super Pro?
For those that don't want to wait for Jerry's answer please go to www.RunOutRadio.com and find the interview with Jeremy Jones and listen for yourself.
What did Jeremy Jones, the winner of the Enjoy Pool.com BCA Championships in 2008 say about the Milliken Super Pro?
For those that don't want to wait for Jerry's answer please go to www.RunOutRadio.com and find the interview with Jeremy Jones and listen for yourself.
In reality there's no debate but people are entitled to their opinions.
But here's a tip - if you use a worsted cloth regardless of brand you're going to get ball and racking marks.
860HR was redesigned in order to minimize these marks that most people think are "wear" which they are not.
If you don't want ball marks then don't get a worsted cloth but then you tradeoff the speed and accuracy of the cloth.
Thought you were going to stick to cases John, LOL.
FTR -
MSP shows ball marks like any other cloth
"Plays better" is a matter of opinion
In reality no cloth requires a "break in"
"Lasts longer" is also a matter of opinion and subject to the conditions and environment in which the cloth is used.
I was, and am and I agree with all that you say above as a matter of opinion.
SOME people feel that cloth requires a "break-in" period, especially some pros who often say that cloth plays differently in the beginning of the tournament than it does towards the end. We have heard from several top players that Milliken cloth plays the same on the first day as it does at the end of the event.
I am personally convinced that Milliken is a better cloth than Simonis and Championship. I have NO EXPERTISE to back up my personal opinion. But since I work for the distributor of said brand I am willing to spend my own money to let the customer see if they also concur with my opinion.
Call it guerilla marketing if you will. Milliken is not going to go head to head with Simonis in the marketing of this cloth - in fact the pool table cloth business is only a tiny part of Milliken's business, they bought Strachan, which is the actual producer of the cloth.
So the only way to do this for me is to go customer by customer and installer by installer. Glen here is very much a Simonis guy and his word carries a lot of weight, you have a ton of experience and your word carries a lot of weight.
I happen to think that our cloth is better than the brands you and Glen reccomend. My experience level however is so far below yours that all I can do is offer ours up for direct comparison in the environment which it will be used.
It's not any different if someone comes on here and claims that x-brand cue case is "the best" when they have little to no experience with other brands. I say to them, prove it. Put you case up against mine and let the best one win.
I am that guy right now. My brand, Milliken Super Pro is the little known underdog and I am willing to put it in the box head to head in any way possible to win the vote of the billiard playing public.
If Simonis or Championship want to give away cuts to go head to head then bring them on. If we lose then we lose.
But I feel pretty good about our chances once people actually play on tables covered with Milliken Super Pro.