"Nearly" is defined with a great degree of latitude in the sentence quoted above.
if the APA handicap system really works
- Thread starter KoolKiller
- Start date
"Nearly" is defined with a great degree of latitude in the sentence quoted above.
lukemindish...I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here. In the APA coaching is allowed, WHILE you play, which is unlike any other league (and one of the reasons I decided to become an APA L.O.). That, in itself, allows someone to "improve". You don't get "punished"...you acquire a higher level of skill, and are appropriately appointed a skill level for it. If you improve too much, yes, you will need to either start another team, or join one that has less skilled players. That is how the APA works. I agree with the "casual night out" comment, but disagree that no APA players want to improve.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Coaching "WHILE you play"is allowed in TAP league also. It's not unique to the APA.
Rufus...It was then! TAP was a twinkle in Lloyd's eye when I was in the APA 20 years ago. LOL Looks like they copied at least one good idea from the APA.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
bingo bango! I don't know if this was intended or not, but if not - it was a beautiful accident, wasn't it?
spotshadow
New member
the other major issue with apa handicapping is that it stops at 7. 7 has the widest range of skill of any of the handicaps. there are 7's in my area that will spot other 7's 2 games in a race to 5. if the handicap was unlimited for a team you could load up with 7's who are a players and run away with your league title without sandbagging. also if you could play any handicaps you want there would be matches taking 5 hours or more. both of these things would drive the less skilled players from the league and the apa is ruled by 3's and 4's. they will do anything they can to make sure the majority is happy.
*nearly* equal.
Also to consider: as teams and players improve, they will eventually go up in skill level. This will usually culminate in the team splitting up, and each half needing to recruit new members. More often then not it will be 2's and 3's that each team will need to recruit. This is genius grass roots marketing. You now have 1000's of people across the country trying to convince people to play in a league that they otherwise would never have done. This is, imho, the *principle* way the APA league grows. Thus I would offer that the 23 rule is more of a league building tool, much more so than a handicap device.
One last thing: don't forget that there is no upper limit on how good a 7 can play. There are less 7's because...well, there are just less people that play at that level. Also, 7's that are just ok players could definitely take a LONG time to finish all their matches, and there is only so much time in a night...
KMRUNOUT
I would have to disagree with this. I started in the APA because I was a regular at a bar near my college, and liked to bang around while drinking lots of beer. I guess I was an above average banger, so when they started up an APA pool team in the place, they asked me to join. I started as a 3, and played a couple of seasons before going up to a 4. At that point, I really came to love pool, and learned all I could. I loved that the APA gave me a sort of ladder to climb, both with my own skill level and the skill level of the people I could beat. It was a real accomplishment when I could beat a 5, 6, or 7. I slowly worked myself up to a 7, and then set my sights on the toughest players in my league area. By this point I was certainly playing 9 ball tournaments outside the APA and being exposed to lots of MUCH better players, as well as pros. Soon I was able to beat all the 7's in my area pretty easily. Now I am probably a low "A" player, maybe a super strong B. Only now has the room for improvement gone from the league. There are only 1 or 2 guys in my league area that are a real match for me, so yeah, I must look ouside the APA for higher levels of competition. However, I would attribute much of my early improvement to the consistent competition I was exposed to through my involvement in the APA.
Like with all groups of people, most all different types of viewpoints are represented...I would steer clear of generalizing. I will certainly agree, however, that there are a LOT of people in the league that are not especially interested in improvement, and just want to drink a few and sit right where they are.
KMRUNOUT
Team is DQ'd from going to Vegas because your team is playing well?
Seems kinda bassackwards to me.
Seems kinda bassackwards to me.
I will vouch fot that comment about APA wanting better players...Because then no one actually knows they are getting screwed...
I DO!!! With all due respect justadub, I always want to play the highest rated player on the opposing team, and if I were a SL3, it wouldn't be any different. Why? Because I am not interested in the winning (although I would rather win than lose), going to the playoffs, or ever going to Vegas. I just want to shoot pool against someone other than my wife (at home). The higher the opponents rank, the more games you get to play. I would hate to be a SL3 and sit in the smoky bar for 3 or so hours waiting to play my match, get put up against another SL3 and lose two straight games in 10 or 15 minutes at the cost of $6 (and quarters). That's some real fun there, eh
? No, I had rather shoot a SL7 and get a minimum of six games played (or possibly more as your skill level goes up). You can get up to 9 games played in a match depending on what your skill level is. So yes, I would rather play a team full of 7's every week. It would assure me that when my match was called that I would get to shoot some pool for as a reward for all the time I spend waiting.Last night my wife (a SL3) shot a man who was also rated as a SL3. He shot like a strong 4/weak 5. beat her two stright games in less than 10 minutes. Trust me, my wife DID NOT have any fun last night. She spent more time assembling /disassembling her cues than she did shooting with them.
See my point? Now, if I WAS interested in winning, playoffs, Vegas, etc., then no, I wouldn't want to shoot a team full of SL7's every week. Truth of the matter is, there aren't enough SL7's around to comprise a whole league full of teams of that skill level.
Just my $.02.
Maniac
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I DO!!! With all due respect justadub, I always want to play the highest rated player on the opposing team, and if I were a SL3, it wouldn't be any different. Why? Because I am not interested in the winning (although I would rather win than lose), going to the playoffs, or ever going to Vegas. I just want to shoot pool against someone other than my wife (at home). The higher the opponents rank, the more games you get to play. I would hate to be a SL3 and sit in the smoky bar for 3 or so hours waiting to play my match, get put up against another SL3 and lose two straight games in 10 or 15 minutes at the cost of $6 (and quarters). That's some real fun there, eh
Last night my wife (a SL3) shot a man who was also rated as a SL3. He shot like a strong 4/weak 5. beat her two stright games in less than 10 minutes. Trust me, my wife DID NOT have any fun last night. She spent more time assembling /disassembling her cues than she did shooting with them.
See my point? Now, if I WAS interested in winning, playoffs, Vegas, etc., then no, I wouldn't want to shoot a team full of SL7's every week. Truth of the matter is, there aren't enough SL7's around to comprise a whole league full of teams of that skill level.
Just my $.02.
Maniac
Fair enough.
I realize that I'm a bit spoiled in my APA experience compared to some in other parts of the country. We almost always have a practice table available for much of the night, and we're not charged for table time - no quarters necessary. (9-footers, too.) So anyone who isn't playing a match or scorekeeping is usually in line for a game on the practice table. Both teams players, together, quite often. Winner holds the table.
I based my opinion on beginners/lesser-skilled players wanting a chance, every so often. Personally, I enjoy playing the better players. But I'm quite sure that there are many casual players who would rather play someone more their speed.
I get what you're saying, though.
APA 8-ball handicapping stops at 7, while APA 9-ball handicapping, aimed at intermediate and higher level players continues up to 9. Keep in mind that the APA 8-Ball league is designed for beginner and intermediate players. Once you reach that level, it doesn't mean you stop improving. It simply means APA 8-ball doesn't have a scale to further measure you.
From my experience asking around in my local pool hall 9-ball league (we have plenty who play both 9-ball and APA 8-ball), it takes as little as C+ to become a SL7, and there are plenty of SL7s who are ranked as A+, Open players in the 9-ball league. If you think its unfair for a SL7 (C+) to play even against a SL7 (Open), then consider a higher skilled league.
From my experience asking around in my local pool hall 9-ball league (we have plenty who play both 9-ball and APA 8-ball), it takes as little as C+ to become a SL7, and there are plenty of SL7s who are ranked as A+, Open players in the 9-ball league. If you think its unfair for a SL7 (C+) to play even against a SL7 (Open), then consider a higher skilled league.
For those that like playing SL 7's, APA has a fine Masters League where it's a heads up race to 7. I found it a lot of fun and the competition was good.
Players can play both 8 and 9 ball in a single match though if you pick 9 ball to start there is a possibility of playing only 9 ball in the match because 9 ball is played for 8 games or intill someone wins 7 games total.
In my humble opinion, the Masters League is the best thing APA has for the intermediate to advanced players that want to get better.
I agree! APA Masters is a lot of fun. Been to vegas twice for the masters. (didn't get far) But had a ball!
What I don't care for, is the 23 rule for both 8 ball and 9 ball. Your 9 ball skill level is usually one higher than 8 ball. Making it that much tougher to field your team. I'm a 6 in 8 ball and an 8 in 9 ball.(I play much better 9 ball
) To play me we have already used over a third of our handicap space. There are three other people on my team with higher 9 ball handicaps than in 8 ball 3/4, 4/5, and 6/7. It's this way on most teams i've played in my 6 years of APA play. I think the 9 ball limit should be 24 or 25 because skill level differences kind of speak for themselves. JMHO,Tom
I've asked this as a rhetorical question several times on this board in the past to the APA apologists and affiliated liars, to make the argument that the APA handicapping system does not work. If it did, there would be no need for such absurdity like the "23" rule.
The 23 rule is the APA's admission their Equalizer doesn't equalize.
Nope, it doesn't. It just makes it a closer match, giving the lesser player somewhat of a chance if things go right.
Pretty simple.
Bingo we have a winner. A little history lesson, apa started as the old busch league.No team handicap just individual. you get five sevens,i get five two's,you spot me 25 games a night. lasted two yrs.then they made it a 36 team handicap.that lasted a couple year's. then 32 and so on. there will be some who will say"it's a different league". i say it's still terry bell and i guess larry hubbart is still involved. but basically ,it's a handicap on top of a handicp, which say's the system doesn't work or it's a way of multiplying teams .
The bottom line...
The bottom line is that the APA is a business, and like any other business, its objective is to show growth and profit.
The bottom line is that the APA is a business, and like any other business, its objective is to show growth and profit.