I'd like to see how the game used to be, so my pick would be from Mingaud, Roberts (Sr.), Schaefer (Sr.), De Oro, Lindrum (W), or Greenleaf. Each was around when the game was changing a lot.
If you could go back in time and watch just one player...
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Buddy Hall while in Shreveport.
I spoke with Buddy about it, and he said they all came to play him, but Louie Roberts and Keith McCready would get beat, go get more money, come back because they wanted to be the best.
IMO, Louie and Keith gave no value to money. Louie considered money "pool coupons" that were meant to be used.
My pick means you get to see these warriors going at it and at it.
Ken
I spoke with Buddy about it, and he said they all came to play him, but Louie Roberts and Keith McCready would get beat, go get more money, come back because they wanted to be the best.
IMO, Louie and Keith gave no value to money. Louie considered money "pool coupons" that were meant to be used.
My pick means you get to see these warriors going at it and at it.
Ken
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I will give a second vote for him.
You do realize Efren had already waded thru the other pros and was likely out of gas at that point...
I wasn't there but I have heard Buddy waited for his opportunity and that opportunity presented itself in fatigue...
If there is a different take on the story from someone who was there I would love to hear it to have a contrasting view =)
Thats a hard question for me. Heres a short list
Harold Worst
Hayden Lingo
Don Willis
Harold Worst
Hayden Lingo
Don Willis
Saw Denny play many times. What a stroke he had. Maybe the best stoke of all time
Not sure what year, but it would be Harold Worst! :grin:
after hearing those ronnie allen stories, for sure i'd love to see harold worst play. i'd also like to see efren play in the 70's. i think i read or heard somewhere that he says he was at his best in the 70's
There are no wrong answers on this thread. I consider myself fortunate to see all the great players that I have seen play in the last five decades.
As for Jimmy Moore, he got knocked for finishing second so many times. But second place against all those great players ain't so shabby. One quick story (that I witnessed) from Johnston City. Just about every night they would have a Ring Ten Ball game, open to anyone. Yes, they played Ring Ten Ball 40-50 years ago! And it was a helluva game to watch, with guys like Cornbread, Ronnie, Taylor, Jersey Red, Shorty, Jr. Goff, Danny Jones, Detroit Whitey and on and on. Many nights I feel asleep in the bleachers watching this game. The reality is that it was usually 20 a man (that's $100 if you win in a six handed game), and that was very good action back then. Occasionally some backers would get involved and they would play for 50 a man. But that was rare. Even at 20 a man, a player could make a $1,000 score, serious money in the 60's.
Two nights in a row Jimmy Moore absolutely pulverized the game, running racks and taking names. He won over a grand each night! On the third night Cornbread wrote his name (Moore) on the little blackboard they used sometimes for money games. No one knew why.....until Jimmy walked in and asked to get in the next game. Red told him that anyone who's name was on that board was BARRED! There was only one name on the board, Jimmy's! Jimmy didn't like it and wanted to play, but all the other players agreed with Cornbread and he was barred.
Now about Mr. Eddie Taylor. He may have been the greatest banker of all time, with only Bugs and Cannonball in the same league (I don't really know enough about Vernon Elliott). Of the three mentioned I was most impressed with Taylor. He hit every bank right at the hole and never missed by more than inches. Bugs was great and Cannonball had the most powerful and sweetest stroke you ever saw, but Taylor was other worldly when he wanted to turn it on. There is no one today in his league! Every bank that Eddie could see, he made look like a hanger! Yes, it was damn exciting to see someone play Banks like that. I actually watched him warm up for an exhibition in Dayton (back in the 60's), throw all 15 balls on the table and bank them all in! First try too! If you think running out in Rotation is good (ala Efren) then see who can bank all 15 balls. You may wait a lifetime to see that happen. I saw it happen exactly once!
As for as entertainment value, Ronnie and Keith are at the top of the list, with Louie Roberts right behind. All three of these guys had a special charisma that endeared them to fans. They were the three who could pack an arena every time they played. Only Alex today has that kind of magnetism. Ronnie never shut up, carrying on a constant dialogue with his opponent and the audience. He was brilliant and entertaining at the same time. Watching him play One Pocket one handed was a real treat. How he did it, running eight and out, I'll never know. No one wanted to play him two handed without a huge spot (he gave 10-6 to top players). Only a handful of guys could play Ronnie close to even (Jersey Red, Kelly and Shorty) and only two would play him dead even (Taylor and Bugs). At Ronnie's peak I don't think even these last two really wanted to tangle with Ronnie.
Keith was simply hilarious, with more original one liners than any comedian on TV. All the while he was roasting someone on the table he was playing to the crowd as well. He would prance around the table shooting one great shot after another and keep you in stitches the whole time. What was most amazing is how he did it. He could make the toughest shot look easy, with a stroke that was unmatched then or now. It was effortless the way he played the game. He had many battles with Louie and I got to see a couple of them. What a great rivalry that was! No one before or after could cut balls in the pocket like Louie. Not Buddy, not Mizerak, not Sigel, not Earl, not anybody! If Keith reads this I'd like to see what he has to say. Louie would rifle long thin cut shots down the rail and the object ball would make a perfect straight line right to the heart of the pocket. And these shots had no room for even the slightest error!
Well enough for now. I was a fly on the wall for many years before I ever became a tournament director.
P.S. Someone mentioned Denny Searcy and his beautiful stroke. So true! The sweetest strokes I ever saw belonged to Denny, Ed Kelly and Marvin Henderson. There is no one today who plays the game as pretty (and great) as these three guys. Kelly moved around the table like a ballerina, he was so graceful with every movement. Watching him play was like poetry in motion. And he was only the best player alive back then! He could play any game at the highest level. Denny did things with the object balls that no one today can do. He seemed to coax them in the hole in mysterious ways that maybe only Efren could have understood. I sure couldn't. Marvin's stroke may have been the most beautiful of them all. It should have been framed for future generations to see. What a beauty he was!
As for Jimmy Moore, he got knocked for finishing second so many times. But second place against all those great players ain't so shabby. One quick story (that I witnessed) from Johnston City. Just about every night they would have a Ring Ten Ball game, open to anyone. Yes, they played Ring Ten Ball 40-50 years ago! And it was a helluva game to watch, with guys like Cornbread, Ronnie, Taylor, Jersey Red, Shorty, Jr. Goff, Danny Jones, Detroit Whitey and on and on. Many nights I feel asleep in the bleachers watching this game. The reality is that it was usually 20 a man (that's $100 if you win in a six handed game), and that was very good action back then. Occasionally some backers would get involved and they would play for 50 a man. But that was rare. Even at 20 a man, a player could make a $1,000 score, serious money in the 60's.
Two nights in a row Jimmy Moore absolutely pulverized the game, running racks and taking names. He won over a grand each night! On the third night Cornbread wrote his name (Moore) on the little blackboard they used sometimes for money games. No one knew why.....until Jimmy walked in and asked to get in the next game. Red told him that anyone who's name was on that board was BARRED! There was only one name on the board, Jimmy's! Jimmy didn't like it and wanted to play, but all the other players agreed with Cornbread and he was barred.
Now about Mr. Eddie Taylor. He may have been the greatest banker of all time, with only Bugs and Cannonball in the same league (I don't really know enough about Vernon Elliott). Of the three mentioned I was most impressed with Taylor. He hit every bank right at the hole and never missed by more than inches. Bugs was great and Cannonball had the most powerful and sweetest stroke you ever saw, but Taylor was other worldly when he wanted to turn it on. There is no one today in his league! Every bank that Eddie could see, he made look like a hanger! Yes, it was damn exciting to see someone play Banks like that. I actually watched him warm up for an exhibition in Dayton (back in the 60's), throw all 15 balls on the table and bank them all in! First try too! If you think running out in Rotation is good (ala Efren) then see who can bank all 15 balls. You may wait a lifetime to see that happen. I saw it happen exactly once!
As for as entertainment value, Ronnie and Keith are at the top of the list, with Louie Roberts right behind. All three of these guys had a special charisma that endeared them to fans. They were the three who could pack an arena every time they played. Only Alex today has that kind of magnetism. Ronnie never shut up, carrying on a constant dialogue with his opponent and the audience. He was brilliant and entertaining at the same time. Watching him play One Pocket one handed was a real treat. How he did it, running eight and out, I'll never know. No one wanted to play him two handed without a huge spot (he gave 10-6 to top players). Only a handful of guys could play Ronnie close to even (Jersey Red, Kelly and Shorty) and only two would play him dead even (Taylor and Bugs). At Ronnie's peak I don't think even these last two really wanted to tangle with Ronnie.
Keith was simply hilarious, with more original one liners than any comedian on TV. All the while he was roasting someone on the table he was playing to the crowd as well. He would prance around the table shooting one great shot after another and keep you in stitches the whole time. What was most amazing is how he did it. He could make the toughest shot look easy, with a stroke that was unmatched then or now. It was effortless the way he played the game. He had many battles with Louie and I got to see a couple of them. What a great rivalry that was! No one before or after could cut balls in the pocket like Louie. Not Buddy, not Mizerak, not Sigel, not Earl, not anybody! If Keith reads this I'd like to see what he has to say. Louie would rifle long thin cut shots down the rail and the object ball would make a perfect straight line right to the heart of the pocket. And these shots had no room for even the slightest error!
Well enough for now. I was a fly on the wall for many years before I ever became a tournament director.
P.S. Someone mentioned Denny Searcy and his beautiful stroke. So true! The sweetest strokes I ever saw belonged to Denny, Ed Kelly and Marvin Henderson. There is no one today who plays the game as pretty (and great) as these three guys. Kelly moved around the table like a ballerina, he was so graceful with every movement. Watching him play was like poetry in motion. And he was only the best player alive back then! He could play any game at the highest level. Denny did things with the object balls that no one today can do. He seemed to coax them in the hole in mysterious ways that maybe only Efren could have understood. I sure couldn't. Marvin's stroke may have been the most beautiful of them all. It should have been framed for future generations to see. What a beauty he was!
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Thanks a lot for the stories Jay. I always enjoy reading these kinds of posts. Love the Jimmy Moore story from Johnston City!
What about The Miz??!!
Steve had one of the most powerful strokes of all time. He could churn that cue ball through the pack in the old days with heavy balls and slow cloth. The cue ball just kept churning and churning until it came out the other side. And he also had a nice delicate touch when needed. No question Steve was one of the best of all time. No less than Willie Mosconi called him the greatest player he ever saw (after himself of course
). But was his stroke as pretty as the three I mentioned, not in my opinion.
Eddie Taylor
In terms of control,Efren running 4 racks of 15 balls in numerical order and on one half of the table is about as impressive as it gets IMO.
And,according to the story,he only stopped because he was done practicing.
Unless you're saying Taylor banked all 15 balls in ORDER?!
Then forget it! THAT trumps anything.
In terms of control,Efren running 4 racks of 15 balls in numerical order and on one half of the table is about as impressive as it gets IMO.
And,according to the story,he only stopped because he was done practicing.
Unless you're saying Taylor banked all 15 balls in ORDER?!
Then forget it! THAT trumps anything.
Thank You Jay for sharing these stories!! I have heard before about what a beast J. Moore was glad to get confirmation by someone like you that was there. It's really great to see some of these greats from way back when get some well deserved acknowledgement..Thanks again for describing some of the great ones Jay!!!!
Harold Worst!!!
He would've been high on my list but honestly I think I would put Alex Higgin's above him. It's too hard to pick one.
EDIT: I know this is an old thread but nothing wrong with reviving it, a lot has changed in 12 years.