This thread lost any credibility with the words " bonus ball points".
If you really want to beat the ghost in 9ball....
- Thread starter realkingcobra
- Start date
When you finally get you “pro tour” off the ground that you’ve been touting for years, you can use your qualification system.
Until then, leave the ghost, with bih and template racks, to us bangers. It’s quite an accomplishment for us to beat it. And none of us are so out of touch that we think we can compete with top players if we beat it.
Thank you.
Until then, leave the ghost, with bih and template racks, to us bangers. It’s quite an accomplishment for us to beat it. And none of us are so out of touch that we think we can compete with top players if we beat it.
Thank you.
I’m triple sure we had it several times before. Ha ha.
Back in 1983 after i got out of the army, i came back to Washington state, was gambling every chance i got to make some money until my unemployment kicked in, and after beating everyone out of their money in one of the bars i was playing in, one of the players placed a call to a guy by the name of Rich Geiler to come down and play me. When he showed up, i had no clue who he was when he wanted to play me by i told him he could join in the ring game we were playing at the time if he wanted to, to which he did. After about an hour the other 3 players quit because the only ones winning was myself and Rich, so i quit at the same time, even though Rich wanted to play heads up. It was late, i was tired, and had been playing all day long as it was. We did play a few months later at a bar with a 9ft GC1, but before we played i told him i had heard about him and how he was ranked 32nd on the mens Pro tour, so i needed some weigh. He asked what i wanted and for how much. I told him i wanted the break and the first shot after the break, race to 5 and we could play for a $100 a set. Well, he jumped on the action, not knowing who i was at all.....but a few hors later i had him down 5 straight sets when he said the spot was to much and told me i played well enough that i didn't need it anyway. I told him i needed the spot because my 9ball break was so bad that i hardly ever made a ball on the break, but i told him we could play one more set, win or lose it would by my last set, and I'd play him even, game on!! Well, i lost that set 5/4 and gave Rich his $500 back and we became friends after that and still are today. The bottom line is that if i practiced my break a LOT more back then playing 9ball, wbo knows what my game would have turned out to be like....all i ever played up until then was 8ball and 14.1. And i guarantee you Rich didn't like playing me 8ball or 14.1 as he felt like he was out of place playing me in both games.
The morel of the story is the BREAK is the single most powerful shot that NEEDS to be mastered if you're going to play 9 or 10ball.....so WHY would ANYONE pass over the importance of that shot to go straight into bih? You DON'T get bih in ANY tournaments when you're breaking the balls, AND if you DON'T make a ball on the break.....you just gave your OPPONENT the break and first sbot AFTER the break....to BEAT you with, and there's nothing you can do about it!!!
The morel of the story is the BREAK is the single most powerful shot that NEEDS to be mastered if you're going to play 9 or 10ball.....so WHY would ANYONE pass over the importance of that shot to go straight into bih? You DON'T get bih in ANY tournaments when you're breaking the balls, AND if you DON'T make a ball on the break.....you just gave your OPPONENT the break and first sbot AFTER the break....to BEAT you with, and there's nothing you can do about it!!!
We can get a feeling for that by looking at the percentage of break-and-runs on successful breaks.
I looked at 19 9-Ball events for which I tracked streamed matches (over 3,200 games) over the past 3 years. Most of the events were the Mosconi Cup, US Open 9-Ball Championship, Turning Stone Classic, Derby City Classic, and WPA World 9-Ball Championship. Most of the streamed matches involved at least one top pro and many were with two top pros. The events include a mixture of rules, racks (including templates), and racking locations.
In none of the 19 events was the rate of B&R on successful breaks as high as 50%. The range was from 25% to 48%. The aggregate for all 19 events was 38%.
I am a slight favorite against the 9 ball ghost. I recently beat the 10 ball ghost on a medium tight 9' gold crown with wooden rack. They make me an A+ in the tourneys. And I think on my good days that might be right, maybe a little high. I can assure Glen that I do not even remotely consider myself a pro. Pros will drill me. At the same time, I'm definitely not a B player. Some people have fairly realistic assessments of their own game...which is the point of me mentioning these things.
KMRUNOUT
Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
We have bandied the historical percentages about, more than a little.
Running out isn't always the highest percentage choice, and in a short race, the tide cans turn Ina very quick and vicious manner.
While tourney play is the best evidence we have on hand, it isn't a true measure of firepower.
And that's ALL I'm trying to point out, but the truth is, most people don't want to hear the truth, they'd rather go on believing they're game is skilled enough that they don't need.to practice from the break trying to run out, when they can take the easy way and start with bih, yet lay claims to their skills because THEY TOO can beat the 9ball ghost, like everyone else can.
The longest test of pure firepower by a top tier pro was Neils Feign playing the ghost on live stream a few years back. He had to win 120 games before the ghost won 20 (or something similar, I’m going by memory). Neils barely lost.
Yet today, world championships are won in races to 9, 11, or 13 games and if there's alternating breaks, there's NO chance for a player to really exhibit their break and run abilitys.
Who exactly are these people you keep talking about?
I've beaten the ghost a few times. I don't think I'm a pro.
KMRUNOUT has said he is able to beat the ghost regularly. He doesn't consider himself a pro.
Glen, I know you are passionate about the game. I think we all are that post regularly here.
I wish changing the format would make the game more popular, and bring in new players. From bangers on dates, to serious players. But I think in the hundreds of years some version of billiards has been around, it has steadily decreased in popularity. So many format changes were tried over the decades to reverse this course. None were successful.
People just have so many other things to do with their time now. I don't think the game will ever be popular again on a social level, or on a professional level. Unfortunately.
I'd have never beat Rich Gieler if it wasn't for the spot i got, which did 2 things in my favor, 1 guaranteed me a ball on the break to start with, even if i didn't make one because i still got the first shot after the break and 2, took away the break from Rich so he had no chance of running out against me, win which he was capable of doing in races to 5. My break was so bad back then in 9ball, i might as well have been playing on his team beating myself, but being guaranteed the first chance to run out, now that i could do with no problem in races to 5. I only won 1 set 5-0, but i did have the lead to 5 in the other 4 sets. But i did lose the 6th set 5-4 and it was because of my weak break...LOL
I'd have never beat Rich Gieler if it wasn't for the spot i got, which did 2 things in my favor, 1 guaranteed me a ball on the break to start with, even if i didn't make one because i still got the first shot after the break and 2, took away the break from Rich so he had no chance of running out against me, in which he was capable of doing in races to 5. My break was so bad back then in 9ball, i might as well have been playing on his team beating myself, but being guaranteed the first chance to run out, now that i could do with no problem in races to 5. I only won 1 set 5-0, but i did have the lead to 5 in the other 4 sets. But i did lose the 6th set 5-4 and it was because of my weak break...LOL
1. No one that can simply beat the 9-ball ghost with BIH thinks they are a pro.
2. While I suppose it is possible to develop a skill test that could somehow rank the top 128 players in the world. I can assure you that you will not find those 128 players if your skill test is having them beat the ghost without BIH.
But that's what no one seems to understand, pool is exploding in most other countries OUTSIDE the United States, how do you explain that?
I'm not so sure that is really true. Half of the Europeans that play pro live in the States. The Eurotour is organized, but it pays hardly anything. In the Philippines they haven't had an organized tour like the San Miguel tour in 5 or 6 years. Even that world championship they had a few year back that Efren and Busty boycotted I think the promoter stiffed everyone.
I think we as American think pool is 10x better in other countries. I think rather, it is our imaginations running away with us.
IMO
But that's the beauty of the skill level testing, the ghost has the maximum 10 rack score of 140 points, the test is which 128 players in the world can get the closest to tie the ghosts score. The ghost runs every rack AND makes 4 balls past the side pockets for a total of 140 points. I would expect there's at least 128 players in the world that can post scores between 125-135 with the first shot after the break to start with.