corvette1340 said:
I love Vette's directness. *click* *click* Done.
If you were to rate the top 100 players in the world.....
- Thread starter George
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I love Vette's directness. *click* *click* Done.
you went a little braindead on this one,and you can bet unlimited smartass! I'm not sure what your problem is but you can bring him and the six out and go busted at your own pace!JB Cases said:
Jeremy
The difference between the number one player in the world and the 700th player in the world is so small that the argument really isn't worth much of a fight. To even make a top 100 list would be a discredit to nearly every top player because its all very subjective.
cleary said:
That's just what I was thinking. *Butting in where I don't belong*....
The question still begs to be answered: Exactly who are the top 100 players that take up every last one of those slots so that Kelly or Allison can't be squeeeeezed in?
You can't really say they don't qualify unless you have 100 reasons why...
JB cases, Brian isn't anywhere near a top 500 player in rotation. It is as simple as that. He isn't even close to top 100, you flat out have bad info, or don't judge speed very well. Having said that, if Ms Fisher plays close to Allison or Karen, I feel he's an underdog. And yes, I am a friend of his. I just had to set the record straight as best I could, before Brian gets no action because someone thinks he plays as good as you said, lol.
masonh said:
You think that if there were a list of 700 players considered the best in the world that no woman would make that list either? And I mean a ranked list based on say 2000 players men and women competing together? You seriously think that there would be no women among the top 700?
And I thought I was out of line.
muttley76 said:
My info comes from Brian himself offering to play any woman for any amount and the amount of people willing to back him for any amount.
I didn't knock his action, he and his other friends have clearly stated that they feel that Brian has the best of it - to the degree that the window is wide open with no limit if he plays any female.
Therefore I have to agree with the majority and ask for a fair game based on what the more knowledgeable gamblers and line makers know. I can't bet on my feeling that Kelly can get there even, that would be the same as drawing dead in poker. I can only bet when we are gambling. IF by some chance Kelly happens to win decisively then we can adjust. The same way that stronger players and weaker players match up all the time.
JB Cases said:
I don't meant that you are really knocking his action, and I don't want in either way. I just KNOW that he isn't top 500. He just lost for 2 straight days to a guy I give weight to in AL, and I'm allowed in amateur tourneys. I'm also not trying to stir anything up, although I personally don't think that there are any females in the top 100 of 10 ball for sure, and most likely not nineball, either. I am, however, capable of listening to other viewpoints, and have a TON of respect for all the women, and even consider Monica and Helena friends. By the way, I love your cases, let me know if you ever want to sponsor an idiot!:wink: Matt
like i said,i agree in theory and i think the number is too high,but Cleary is 1000% closer than you are.
coming from a guy who states that 5 women are in the top 100 players on "earth",wow.
this is not a knock to women pool players either.i have played agianst a few for money and the ones i played were nothing but class and good gamblers.no arguing or whining just pool.i truly respect them and i am sure they will be quick to admit they play on a different level than the men.
maybe you missed this post:
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Just to chime in here with another opinion. Reed giving any female player the 7 alone is a long way from Brian giving the 6 out in my opinion. Unless I'm brain dead, those two games are apples and oranges. I wouldn't even consider just the 7 from a much better player but I would have to try the 6 out and at least find out I was wrong. For instance, I can't beat Kelly F. even, but I would sure as hell try B.Whizzle with the 6 out. I think JB Cases is reaching quite a bit with his request.
rossaroni said:
Right or wrong, I would guess that there are probably closer to 500 that would play any of them even. I am not saying that they are favorites, or would win, but hell, a player in Athens, GA(who imo, isn't top 100) offered Allison the 7 ball.
John doesn't really believe what he is saying about the women. That is why he is not willing to bet it, or anything even close to it. John has long been a rabid feminist for lack of a better word, and I think that he sometimes tries to make how he "wishes it was" into reality. Deep down he knows the truth.dogginda9 said:
I feel certain that John does not really believe that Brian is top 100 in the world. John himself claims that Kelly fisher is top 100 in the world. But yet he wants the 6 out for Kelly to play Brian? He wouldn't need or ask for weight if he really believed what he says about her. John knows that Brian would beat her heads up, and he knows that Brian isn't top 100. He just won't admit that it makes Kelly not top 100 too.
Heck, even if he really did believe they were both top 100 (which he doesn't), the 6 out would be way out of line for any top 100 player to give another top 100 player. Because John is such a staunch female supporter, he is "fibbing" a little bit about his beliefs in the hopes of getting the women a little more respect, that's all.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for women's rights, and I'm all for equal pay for equal work, etc etc. I just believe you have to be honest about it and call it like it is when it isn't equal or even real close, which is sometimes the case (like in pool).
dogginda9 said:
Of course I am reaching. But I have yet to hear a counteroffer. The world thinks that Brian is the better player. I agree. What kind of weight would Kelly need to make it a "fair" game?
Maybe if we agree on that then we can see a match.
Reed's offer of the 7 is hardly any weight at all. However he can give up the six out and get played.
Most of you think that just about every shortstop in the world is better than the top women. I see shortstops getting all kinds of weight and getting beat at Derby so I don't see why this is such a problem.
If every shortstop is better than all the women then it's a no brainer that any shortstop should be willing to give up weight to any woman. And any Champion like Reed should be willing to give up tremendous weight. After all they aren't in the top 700 best players in the world.
Y'all like to talk about horses and whose horse is better. Well in horse racing the stronger horses are handicapped to insure a fair race.
You're right Pool Player - I am just vocalizing my WISH that Allison and co were in the top 100. It's a complete fantasy on my part. Since they are not allowed to compete with the men consistently they have no chance to even try. I agree that the reality is that they could not even break the top 1000. So compile a list of the top 1000 players and handicap it from top to bottom. Whatever weight the #1000 player can get from Brian or Reed to make it a fair game is what I will take and let Kelly play either of them.
God I wish I were a multi-millionaire. I would bust a lot of who think that the women can be handily beaten by any joe player. I'd take the women on tour and take on all "non-ranked" players who want to play. Then we'd see who can really play and who can't. But you know, you all are right. The women can't hang. They really have no business in a pool room at all.
And how dare they aspire to be good or great players. I think we should just ban the bunch of them from playing at all. Then no more debates, no bruised ego, no crying about double dipping. Then you are free to pick on the wheelchair players.
By the way, I play ok too, have run five racks on occasion. I tried the 5 out from a very good semi-pro just to see if I was wrong. I was and it cost me $800 for the lesson.
rossaroni said:
I agree and so do they. But ask yourself how many of them think that a woman of Allison's or Xiao Ting Pan's caliber is considered an easy draw in a single tournament race to 9?
Jasmin Ouschan is living proof, as is Jean Balukas and Karen Corr, that a woman can compete in tough events against a tough field of top players. And she has to fade all the BS Crap that a man of her exact skill level would not have to fade. So imagine how she would do with her drive if she were a man and didn't have to fade being born with a y-chromosone.
Jasmin, Allison, Karen, Jeanette, Kelly F., Ga Young, Pan, Vivian, Gerda and maybe one or two of the other new girls on tour. All of the above are capable of beating any man in a single match. And several of them can play more than just 9-ball at the 'A' level. It's actually not hard to find sixteen excellent women players today. I'd love to do an Invitational event with 64 players and put the top 16 women in the field. But that's just me. 
I'm not talking about gambling here or matching up. I'm talking strictly tournament play 9-Ball. The top women are conditioned to this type of play, and are comfortable with it. Yes, there are probably 300-500 men on the planet who are better players, but can they get there in a tournament setting against Karen or Allison. Of that I'm not so sure. I'd like to bet on all the above women in any tournament 9-Ball match they play against ANY man and take 2-1 on the money. I would have cleaned up at DCC this year.
I've watched these women play (or at least most of them), and they play a little better than anyone is giving them credit for. Very few misses, consistent run outs and handle pressure well. There are only a handful of men that would be 2-1 favorites over the first 4-5 women on my list, in a single match.
Now when you're talking gambling, I would make a similar argument. What player (Brian?) would like to gamble with Kelly Fisher by the game and give her 2-1 playing 9-Ball? Who would bet 200 against her 100 every game? Forget about a spot, just give her a line on the money.
I'm not talking about gambling here or matching up. I'm talking strictly tournament play 9-Ball. The top women are conditioned to this type of play, and are comfortable with it. Yes, there are probably 300-500 men on the planet who are better players, but can they get there in a tournament setting against Karen or Allison. Of that I'm not so sure. I'd like to bet on all the above women in any tournament 9-Ball match they play against ANY man and take 2-1 on the money. I would have cleaned up at DCC this year.
I've watched these women play (or at least most of them), and they play a little better than anyone is giving them credit for. Very few misses, consistent run outs and handle pressure well. There are only a handful of men that would be 2-1 favorites over the first 4-5 women on my list, in a single match.
Now when you're talking gambling, I would make a similar argument. What player (Brian?) would like to gamble with Kelly Fisher by the game and give her 2-1 playing 9-Ball? Who would bet 200 against her 100 every game? Forget about a spot, just give her a line on the money.
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