If you were to rate the top 100 players in the world.....
- Thread starter George
- Start date
railfirst said:
Yeah, but the question is which women are in the top 100 in the entire world. You have to take into account the top players from the Phillipines, the top from Taiwan, the top from other Asian countries, the top players in Europe, the top players in North America, ect... 100 is not alot of players, I doubt Karen Corr is as good a player as the 20th best player in the Phillipines, one could make a list of the top 10 players in the Phillipines with famous all stars, same goes for Taiwan. Plus if we are looking for the best 100 I would have to take some of the snooker players, O'sullivan from what I saw in the IPT in a single event is a better pool player then Corr.
No offense to the women but I said 0, and I do think that a list could be made of 100 very well known male players of world class ability that would beat Allison in most long sets, largely due to her break, but that is a part of the game. I would put Nevel over Fisher in ranking and I am not sure Nevel would break into the top 100. I think he would have a tough time in the World 9-ball championships against players that shoot back alot more then he is used to and players that sit you down in your chair for a long time every time you make a slight slip.
In my opinion, there are 10 females who are perfectly capable of winning any short/medium set of nine ball against top male players. That DOES NOT make them top 100. Make the tourney 10 ball race to 11, against say, the average asian tour, and Jay, you have action sir.jmo
iba7467 said:
I don't disagree - they are all worlds above the women. So I will take the proper weight to make it a gambling match. Please post the weight that you think is FAIR to make it an even game and we can get down to business. Please list beside each name the weight that Kelly Fisher needs.
JB Cases said:
so now you are saying that she isn't in the top 100? Which is it? Also, nobody has said anythng about giving weight to Kelly Fisher in a gambling match that you are staking. All that people were stressing is that there are literally hundreds of people that would love to play her even. Now, if you truly believe that she is better than some of them then let her play them even, otherwise enough with all the give her this , give her that crap.
corvette1340 said:
I have already stated that I think all the women are far below the men. So all I am asking you and anyone else to do is make a statement about what spot they need to make it a fair game.
Of course there are millions of men who want to play the women even. Everyone likes to steal the money.
I agree with you and the crowd, the women have NO CHANCE to beat men playing even, gambling long sets. So what kind of spot is needed to make it an even game.
Why can't anyone come up with this? All you can do is maintain that the women can't win, offer to play to prove it and REFUSE to offer a FAIR game. You say you want to GAMBLE but it looks to me like all you want to do is steal.
If you want to GAMBLE then post up some spots that make sense for a far weaker player - as in ONE WHO HAS NO CHANCE EVER to win playing even - to play a far SUPERIOR player, as in one who will only lose an occassional set to a far weaker weaker player - that makes a fair game where both players have about an equal chance to win.
I am 100% wrong about the women and their skill level. They are nowhere near world class. You are 100% right. So let's gamble based on your judgment of speed. I will be glad to post up with a 100% forfeiture rule if the game we agree on doesn't happen. The catch here as you already know is that we probably won't agree on what your superior player must give my weaker player in order for it to be a fair game. However I will certainly entertain all offers and you might surprise me with an actual sensible offer that I accept.
Lastly, to EVERYONE reading this. These posts about backing Kelly are made ENTIRELY without consultation with Kelly. She has nothing to do with it and may or may not choose to play if asked. I only register my willingness to back her if a fair game is offered and she accepts.
If today there were a worldwide tour that allowed men and women to play equally, then the existing top women probably would not rank in the top 100 in the first year or two of play. However, under the common assumption that playing top competition makes a player better, it should be assumed that the women as a group would get better and that some of them would aquire the skills they need to be in the top 100 or even - gasp - top ten.
It should also be assumed that any woman of sufficient desire and intelligence should be able to learn and would learn as the men do.
The thing is that the women for the forseeable future will still have to face double pressure from most of the men as the men don't believe they belong in competition with them.
And as most of you are aware the game is 90% mental. So if a woman goes into compeition already facing a mental hurdle she is doubly handicapped from the start.
This won't change in our lifetimes as most of the world is still sexist and racist. Most of the world strongly believes in class division and that they are superior to someone else.
Therefore the attitude that there is no chance a woman can be a top 100 player today or any time in the future is, unfortunately prevalent, and will continue to be a barrier to it actually happening. Fortunately however there are women like Jasmin Ouschan whose stated goal is to become the best pool player in the world. With women like her they will force the issue until it ceases to be one.
John Barton
It should also be assumed that any woman of sufficient desire and intelligence should be able to learn and would learn as the men do.
The thing is that the women for the forseeable future will still have to face double pressure from most of the men as the men don't believe they belong in competition with them.
And as most of you are aware the game is 90% mental. So if a woman goes into compeition already facing a mental hurdle she is doubly handicapped from the start.
This won't change in our lifetimes as most of the world is still sexist and racist. Most of the world strongly believes in class division and that they are superior to someone else.
Therefore the attitude that there is no chance a woman can be a top 100 player today or any time in the future is, unfortunately prevalent, and will continue to be a barrier to it actually happening. Fortunately however there are women like Jasmin Ouschan whose stated goal is to become the best pool player in the world. With women like her they will force the issue until it ceases to be one.
John Barton
JB Cases said:
I never said I want to gamble and give your women a spot. I said I would let some of the men play Kelly Fisher even. If that is stealing then so be it. I like to get my money in with the best of it and I think that Brian or a couple of hundred other men have the best of it against Kelly. Either prove me wrong or quit asking for weight because giving anything never entered the equation for me. I have no desire to find out what the right spot is for a fair game. In fact, I couldn't care less what kind of weight she needs.
Haven't you figured out that this guy(JB) is full of poopoo? He just likes running off at the mouth, rewording stuff till he gets it where he wants it! He doesn't know a thing about me and he's been on my case for a week now, talking smack and trying to high roll me into playing some game I never said anything about! He is kind of like a three yr old who wants to get there way and is going to whine till someone agrees with him!corvette1340 said:
Jeremy
just about a said:
Strictly for tournament 9-Ball, YES! Maybe three or four of them.
Strictly gambling (which was not the OP question), absolutely not!
instroke75 said:
I don't need to reword anything. You are the one that said you could beat the WPBA. I am just busting your nuts for your own comments about how you could make a living on the WPBA. You can however play Kelly Fisher even. In fact, I will let Kelly give YOU the last two just because, in the words of the great Fast Eddie, "you're a choker."
If you can scrape together enough money to make it to Charlotte NC and bet something then you can get played. Since you are already better than all the women this ought to be easy for you to take off. Just tell me when you will be there and how much you will bet and it's covered. Races to 9 winner breaks.
JB Cases said:
you are correct. If Kelly played Brian then it would be stealing.
Hey John, I've seen Kelly, and I know how I would play Brian. What can I get?JB Cases said:
I live close to Charlotte, and I am serious. PM me and I'll tell you how we can play if you are serious. Don't worry, it won't be some ridiculous spot. Just a little sumpin, sumpin.
jay helfert said:
Jay,
I hate to disagree, but the original post is copied below. He asked how many women would make the list of top 100 players in the world. This is where the discussion started. He later mentioned in a tournament setting, but you know tournaments never correctly reflect the best players. By pure laws of average, some better players will have to play one another in double elimination tournaments. I am a D player and have cashed in one good added money tournament. Amazingly I drew a bye, then a chump, then another chump, then a local shortstop who played horrible and I broke phenomenally.
From original poster:
The question should read:
"If you made your list of the top 100 players in the world how many women would be on it??"
Jay, I do not discredit the women players as many play very well. I do however disagree that a female player is better than one of the best 100 men. You offer to bet match by match at a regional tournament (far cry from the world's best 100). I will gladly bet $100 per match on every match at DCC between any woman and any man on my list of the top 100 male players in attendance. Do you want this bet?
JB Cases said:
I am one of the most adament people that states that women are not in the top 100. This does not mean I believe it is impossible.
This discussion has sprung many times. JB you were one who originally stated Kelly could play with these guys. I believe a fair arrangement to find a fair game to be played.
Why not start even races to 18. Every set adjust by one ball and bet the cumulative winnings. At some point, the lesser player will win as the spotter will be giving up more weight than they have a chance with. At this point, all monies will be even then lessen the spot by 1/2 ball and bet half the most recent bet. (Ex. even for $1,000 - call 8 $1,000 - last 3 $2,000 - wild 7,8 $4,000 then spotter loses game is either call 7 and 8, or 7 last 3 for $2,000). This gives the spotting player a reason to try to win more sets giving the spot so that the bet is higher. Guarantee someone goes home two sets winner.