I'm ready to begin the journey....free help

metalcobra23

metalcobra23

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My name is mat and I am from northern California. I had the pleasure of working for Kent Davis helping as a shop hand helping him in his work for a little while, and of course I lived in southern California to do this . Now that I live in the San Francisco bay area I am no longer able to perusue the interest of cue making in the capacity in which I would truly like to enjoy. I am writing now because the eager to help in the cue making process has truly grown to almost unmanageable levels and I am offering myself a hard working your man of no cost to help a California based cue maker until I can save up enough money to be able to start in my own workshop. I could not tell you how how much this would mean to me. I would be so thankful if someone might be able to send me in the right direction so that I may grow in the love for building cues. Thanks and I hope to hear from you soon.
 
Its not often someone offers themselves as a cue shop slave. Somebody should take this fella up, could be a good shop gopher. Go fer this and go fer that. WHen you go fer enough eventually you learn how to do it.

once a gopher,
Grey Ghost
 
greyghost said:
Its not often someone offers themselves as a cue shop slave. Somebody should take this fella up, could be a good shop gopher. Go fer this and go fer that. WHen you go fer enough eventually you learn how to do it.

once a gopher,
Grey Ghost
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Really? If the guy lives in the cuemakers area it will be just a short matter of time before he has no more interest in working for you and will be out stealing your repair work and what ever other business he can, exploiting contacts he got through you. I am not saying this is the case here, but almost all cuemakers will tell the same story.

A lot of these guys will work for you just long enough to learn the bare minimum before it happens. I had a guy once doing a delivery to a condo with a batch of house cues I had done give them a business card he had printed up tell them to give him a call next time. HE DIDN'T EVEN WAIT TILL HE QUIT BEFORE TRYING TO STEAL BUSINESS FROM ME.
Again, I am not saying this is this guys intentions but it will happen never the less. That is just what happens if he lives in your town.
 
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macguy said:
Really? If the guy lives in the cuemakers area it will be just a short matter of time before he has no more interest in working for you and will be out stealing your repair work and what ever other business he can, exploiting contacts he got through you. Burt Schrager told me he never had anyone work for him who didn't stab him in the back. I am not saying this is the case here, but almost all cuemakers will tell the same story.

A lot of these guys will work for you just long enough to learn the bare minimum before it happens. I had a guy once doing a delivery to a condo with a batch of house cues I had done give them a business card he had printed up tell them to give him a call next time. HE DIDN'T EVEN WAIT TILL HE QUIT BEFORE TRYING TO STEAL BUSINESS FROM ME.
Again, I am not saying this is this guys intentions but it will happen never the less. That is just what happens if he lives in your town.
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Wow!!!!!!!
 
cuemaker03 said:
Wow!!!!!!!
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Do you mean "WOW" because you can't believe this happens, or you think I am out of line saying it? It's funny, after stealing business from you they will call you and ask if they can buy some materials. Don't underestimate the nerve of some people.
 
macguy said:
Do you mean "WOW" because you can't believe this happens, or you think I am out of line saying it? It's funny, after stealing business from you they will call you and ask if they can buy some materials. Don't underestimate the nerve of some people.
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There is also the liability that you must assume in case of an accident. He could get cut, sue and then own your shop and what ever else you happen to have. It scares me to have people around such simple equipment but that can maim or kill in a heart beat.

Dick
 
Yes it can Dick, just ask my left nipple about the rear chuck on a Deluxe.
Willee is the Barefoot cuemaker, I was the no shirt guy the other night.
Positioned myself over the headstock to shape a tip and was not mindful as to where the rear chuck was.
 
Thats some dam good points you guys brought up....just another reason I felt dam lucky to have a cue maker let me in his shop and teach me what he did.
 
macguy said:
Really? If the guy lives in the cuemakers area it will be just a short matter of time before he has no more interest in working for you and will be out stealing your repair work and what ever other business he can, exploiting contacts he got through you. Burt Schrager told me he never had anyone work for him who didn't stab him in the back. I am not saying this is the case here, but almost all cuemakers will tell the same story.

A lot of these guys will work for you just long enough to learn the bare minimum before it happens. I had a guy once doing a delivery to a condo with a batch of house cues I had done give them a business card he had printed up tell them to give him a call next time. HE DIDN'T EVEN WAIT TILL HE QUIT BEFORE TRYING TO STEAL BUSINESS FROM ME.
Again, I am not saying this is this guys intentions but it will happen never the less. That is just what happens if he lives in your town.
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Your not kidding on this one. Recently my son was building a cue for a friend of his and allowed the guy to help him a little on it. My son has a new technology he is putting in shafts to make them stiffer and balanced differently. His friend suggested that they put that technology in the butt also. My son had already thought about it, but had not tried it yet. Well he did it and liked it really well. They decided to start building some more of them and he was going to let his friend help him assemble the butts. Shortly after his friend tells everyone he owns half my sons business and that he invented the technology my son invented. He is even threatening to patent it and claims to have reported to some organization that my son is stealing his technology. All because he made one suggestion.
My son believes he has come up with the best playing slim butt cues ever and now has this stigma hanging over him of someone claiming he stole the technology from him. My son compares it to someone inventing a Camaro Car and also inventing full injection. Then a customer asks if he can put fuel injection in the Camaro also. He says sure we can do that. Now the customer wants to own half of the Camaro brand because of that.
 
macguy said:
Really? If the guy lives in the cuemakers area it will be just a short matter of time before he has no more interest in working for you and will be out stealing your repair work and what ever other business he can, exploiting contacts he got through you. Burt Schrager told me he never had anyone work for him who didn't stab him in the back. I am not saying this is the case here, but almost all cuemakers will tell the same story.

A lot of these guys will work for you just long enough to learn the bare minimum before it happens. I had a guy once doing a delivery to a condo with a batch of house cues I had done give them a business card he had printed up tell them to give him a call next time. HE DIDN'T EVEN WAIT TILL HE QUIT BEFORE TRYING TO STEAL BUSINESS FROM ME.
Again, I am not saying this is this guys intentions but it will happen never the less. That is just what happens if he lives in your town.
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Sad as it reads....this is the truth. Has happened to me. I even know of a guy that had me make him a couple fullsplice sneakies from blanks he bought. After I finished them he was telling people he made them & was trying to get orders. He's not a cuemaker at all. Even tries his best to steal my tip business from one room. A couple of players that he's put tips on have brought me their shafts with tears in their eyes...looked like he had put the ferrules in a pencil sharper...worst hack work I've ever seen. Its even happened a couple times before. Twice many years ago I had what I thought were good friends ask to watch the process of building their cues...I agreed. Afterwards both immediately bought lathes & had business cards made...LOL...of course none are in the cue business today. I guess I should watch a surgery & then have me some Dr. Kev business cards made. Idiots everywhere.:rolleyes:
 
Fortunately in your case Kevin, that only makes for more business for you.
I guess the saying: Keep your enemies close, your friends even closer does have some credence.
 
I have heard these stories as well, and it seems quite plausible.

I have had limited exposure to 'real' cue makers, and fewer exposure to their shops. (Basically just Paul Drexler's shop- and that was many years ago)

So, I basically have to figure stuff out myself, or ask the generous makers here for their tips and tricks.

It is one thing to apprentice to learn a skill; quite another to take food from the mouth of the person who taught you. Very low-class in my opinion.

Not that it is malicious; however the OP has stated that once he learns the skills, he WILL open his own shop. How exactly he handles that is the real question...
 
Hi,

Make him sign an agreement whereby he can not compete in cue sales or repair within a 50 mile radius for 3 yrs after he leaves your shop. If he learns how to build cues and sets up his own shop he will doubtless sell on the internet which should'nt bother anyone.

Also make sure the agreement declares he is responsible for any and all legal fees for any transgression to the agreement.

Just remember that this person is working for free to learn. If you have him do work in your shop that you are profiting from, you are indeed responsible for his well being concerning safety & liability issues.

Rick Geschrey
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

Make him sign an agreement whereby he can not compete in cue sales or repair within a 50 mile radius for 3 yrs after he leaves your shop. If he learns how to build cues and sets up his own shop he will doubtless sell on the internet which should'nt bother anyone.

Also make sure the agreement declares he is responsible for any and all legal fees for any transgression to the agreement.

Just remember that this person is working for free to learn. If you have him do work in your shop that you are profiting from, you are indeed responsible for his well being concerning safety & liability issues.

Rick Geschrey
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problem is, there is no up side for the cuemaker at all. Even more evidenced by the need for such an agreement. It is a no win deal for the cuemaker no matter how you look at it. I had forgotten all about the liability issue. That is a no starter right out of the box.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Fortunately in your case Kevin, that only makes for more business for you.
I guess the saying: Keep your enemies close, your friends even closer does have some credence.
Click to expand...

THE SAYING IS:

KEEP YOUR FRIENDS CLOSE, AND YOUR ENEMIES CLOSER.

ken
 
You are correct. It was a quote from Sun Tzu and I got it backwards.
In some cases it does work to keep your friends closer, they can be worse than your enemies.
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

Make him sign an agreement whereby he can not compete in cue sales or repair within a 50 mile radius for 3 yrs after he leaves your shop. If he learns how to build cues and sets up his own shop he will doubtless sell on the internet which should'nt bother anyone.

Also make sure the agreement declares he is responsible for any and all legal fees for any transgression to the agreement.

Just remember that this person is working for free to learn. If you have him do work in your shop that you are profiting from, you are indeed responsible for his well being concerning safety & liability issues.

Rick Geschrey
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only problem with that is this since he's in california.

Enforceability in the State of California
Non-compete agreements are not automatically void as a matter of law in California, they are not upheld under California law, except for circumstances authorized by statute. (California Business and Professions Code Section 16600). See, e.g., Edwards v. Arthur Andersen LLP, 44 Cal. 4th 937 (2008). They were outlawed by the original California Civil Code in 1872.[6]
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

Make him sign an agreement whereby he can not compete in cue sales or repair within a 50 mile radius for 3 yrs after he leaves your shop. If he learns how to build cues and sets up his own shop he will doubtless sell on the internet which should'nt bother anyone.

Also make sure the agreement declares he is responsible for any and all legal fees for any transgression to the agreement.

Just remember that this person is working for free to learn. If you have him do work in your shop that you are profiting from, you are indeed responsible for his well being concerning safety & liability issues.

Rick Geschrey
Click to expand...

My friend owns a mobile car paint touchup business with about 6 employees working different car lots. They all were required to sign no-compete clauses. I think his are for more like 5-7 years and covers most of the state. He covers all their expenses and they are paid on commision of work. It's a good deal for his workers as they probably make more working this way, than if they were doing it on their own.
 
Wow....dont know what to say

After reading all of the posts, and thank you for all of the responses by the way, I have heard alot from many who have been there before. Some might question motive and others might see legal liability and others might even see it was stealing food. The one thing that truly stood out to me is that my friend Kent davis learned from Ariel carmeli and then adapted his own techniques and they are great friends and wonderful things have come from that. Also if anyone knows jazznpool' Kent like I do there is a huge benefit the cue maker receives. the first thing is sharing his passion for making pool cues and allow someone to see into the mind to understand what love and care comes from these pieces of work. there were things that i learned that are never to be shared with anyone, and there are other things that i learned like being a perfectionist and knowing how dangerous the equipment is and so forth. He showed me how much he loves the game and how much he labors for those who buy his product. I worked an entire semester just so I could recieve my cue, put in timeless hours and produced things that he to this day still uses to assemble his cues. he saw the look in my eyes when I tirnedmy first forearm and put that coat on it to see the wood shine. I had people purchase the forearms I turned so that they could use it in their work. that was a great feeling. If it were about robbing the teacher I would pollute the sanctity of the art that cue making actually is, and I am not about to be ungrateful to someone who is willing to really show me how the basics are done. I have the same passion for pool that i do for baseball and I am just putting myself out there to see what someone might want to get. Im a broke single kid in his mid 20s that loves pool and worked just so I can be a part of something great. I even hot to help with the cue that made it in billiard digest, and it was an honor. If I were in the buisness of ripping off people I would sell cars not cues.
 
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