In regards to John Schmidt, the champion

[watchez]

You know Steve I stopped posting and visiting here as I got into poker. On the poker sites there is much more attention given to technique as well as strategy. Mathemetical equations and bankroll building is also greatly discussed. Recently I joined a pro poker teaching site (PokerXFactor) where they actually show the Hand history of a tournament and discuss the optimal moves and the mistake one makes during a match. They also have pros that come on and will talk about their strategy during an event and particular hands. Consequently the rate of development is far much higher and there is more success on the felt.

Last year I had a nice 5 figure income from poker which I can say is what many top pool champions would aspire for. Such is the way things go.
Perhaps now is a time for such a teaching site for pool players. Ive tried now to put all the scientific things Ive learned in poker to pool. Questions like when should I shoot a shot that Im liable to miss 1 out of 3 times. What should I bet vs my bankroll? Loose agressive or Tight conservative with different opponents? Strategy and technique is what seems to be missing in these general forums and maybe you can start something with some pros and reputable teachers.

Seems like this forum is basically for people to let off steam and also brag about their accomplishments and who they know. Science and psychology is totally missing.

100% agree. The biggest absence on this site is the pros. I hang out on two other forums - one for Golden Tee and one for handball. On these two forums the biggest difference is that all the top players post regularly. Sure there are still your flame war at times but these players are always willing to chime in and give tips or advice to the lesser players. They realize that their existence depends upon it. Pool has always failed to realize that.

In pool, they eat their young. In the pool room, an up and coming player is not giving any attention by a better player than to be viewed as a new fish in the sea for them to take down, chew up and then spit out. The better player hopes to make some gambling money off of them or have them donate to a few tournaments and then wait for the next crop to spring up.

 

[alstl]

Al,
Everything you say is true.

However, just to start a new trend; I'll bark at JS...I have $100 that says I can beat him at straight pool (I would bet more, but I don't want to take advantage:smile::smile....it will need to be a long race, however....just to make sure I have a "chance".....I say race to 1000....money well spent....

I see what you did there.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

100% agree. The biggest absence on this site is the pros. I hang out on two other forums - one for Golden Tee and one for handball. On these two forums the biggest difference is that all the top players post regularly. Sure there are still your flame war at times but these players are always willing to chime in and give tips or advice to the lesser players. They realize that their existence depends upon it. Pool has always failed to realize that.

In pool, they eat their young. In the pool room, an up and coming player is not giving any attention by a better player than to be viewed as a new fish in the sea for them to take down, chew up and then spit out. The better player hopes to make some gambling money off of them or have them donate to a few tournaments and then wait for the next crop to spring up.

I think the biggest reason why you're not going to find a lot of professionals in the forums FOR NOW has to do with comfort in writing. We're simply going to have to wait for the day when the average professional has a birthdate later than 1985. Blogging, forum posting, facebooks profiles - this is all very intimidating stuff, especially if you've already been misinterpreted in public. Something is said the wrong way, taken out of context, worded poorly and suddenly there's a beef to settle. The eloquence in spoken word is difficult to convey in writing and many professionals rely on a complex and rather eloquent vocabulary in their everyday speech.

I say give it time.

 

[mantis99]

This is a very good post. The simple fact is that when you do something at a world class level, you will always have those that naturally excel at it, and they will have the potential to be the best. Of course drive and work ethic come into play, but some people will just be able to see the shot better than others, and be able to repeat a stroke better than others, no matter how much they practice. While I definately believe that becoming a world class player is multi-factorial, you can't leave out natural talent, otherwise everyone that practiced 8 hours a day would become world class, and that just doesn't happen.

 

[watchez]

I think the biggest reason why you're not going to find a lot of professionals in the forums FOR NOW has to do with comfort in writing. We're simply going to have to wait for the day when the average professional has a birthdate later than 1985. Blogging, forum posting, facebooks profiles - this is all very intimidating stuff, especially if you've already been misinterpreted in public. Something is said the wrong way, taken out of context, worded poorly and suddenly there's a beef to settle. The eloquence in spoken word is difficult to convey in writing and many professionals rely on a complex and rather eloquent vocabulary in their everyday speech.

I say give it time.

I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with the above. I was told that SVB reads this site all the time but rarely posts. How old is SVB?

Grady figured out the internet. Billy Incardona figured out the internet. Keith McCready figured out the internet.

Surely Johnny Archer, Corey Duel, Stevie Moore, Gabe Owen, Jeremy Jones, Charlie Bryant (who used to have a sub forum here) just to name a few can not be intmidated by the internet.

Others aren't intimidated when they need internet votes for the Mosconi Cup or want to sell something. Unfortunately those trying to sell something rarely if at all post about anything else.

There doesn't have to be any thing eloquent about it. (Have you read Fatboy's posts and see the rep he gets - people understand :grin-square

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with the above. I was told that SVB reads this site all the time but rarely posts. How old is SVB?

Grady figured out the internet. Billy Incardona figured out the internet. Keith McCready figured out the internet.

Surely Johnny Archer, Corey Duel, Stevie Moore, Gabe Owen, Jeremy Jones, Charlie Bryant (who used to have a sub forum here) just to name a few can not be intmidated by the internet.

Others aren't intimidated when they need internet votes for the Mosconi Cup or want to sell something. Unfortunately those trying to sell something rarely if at all post about anything else.

There doesn't have to be any thing eloquent about it. (Have you read Fatboy's posts and see the rep he gets - people understand :grin-square

Asking for votes and getting involved in conversations are different. The initial post can be carefully worded and then it's followed by a bunch of thank yous. Conversation and debate can get very tricky and the attention any argument will get is magnified.

 

[poolmaster]

It is a great thread, but I think, there is nothing else to be said.

 

[yobagua]

I think the biggest reason why you're not going to find a lot of professionals in the forums FOR NOW has to do with comfort in writing. We're simply going to have to wait for the day when the average professional has a birthdate later than 1985. Blogging, forum posting, facebooks profiles - this is all very intimidating stuff, especially if you've already been misinterpreted in public. Something is said the wrong way, taken out of context, worded poorly and suddenly there's a beef to settle. The eloquence in spoken word is difficult to convey in writing and many professionals rely on a complex and rather eloquent vocabulary in their everyday speech.

I say give it time.

I think youre underestimating a lot of people. As someone who was born in the late 40's we went through a kind of structure where we were not asked to express our feelings through action or conversation but through the pen and ink. Our heroes were Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Arthur Miller, and Tennesee Williams to name a few. Our past times were reading and more reading. Today the need to focus on classics is not a priorities and those that do make it an elitist circle.
Talk to someone like Danny Diliberto who has studied Latin and can talk and articulate on many different topics. A master as well in Poolology if there is such a word. How round objects react to other round objects, etc.

When I talked to Earl S at one event he was damn eloquent about the break in 9 ball. All you had to do is ask. And he could tell you where to hit and how hard. And he had a strong philosophy about it too. Read some of Nick Varners past articles in Billiards Digest. More eloquent in any as to the science of the safety play.

What is needed is the venue and leadership. Maybe guys like Steve, George Fels, or you (I know your knowledge of constitutional law) can help moderate such things. We also need to protect these pros from the fan verbiage. The flame so to speak. And also not give credence to the pseudo pros that permeate the internet. Guys who will tell you about how they beat so and so and "broke even with Efren". Which you know in your heart is a joke. With the internet there is verification which is easily accesible to us.

Yes it will be in time. But unless those that are holding up the higher standards can take the leadership and present the sport as a science and philosophical form it will be a long time.

 

[watchez]

What is needed is the venue and leadership. Maybe guys like Steve, George Fels, or you (I know your knowledge of constitutional law) can help moderate such things. We also need to protect these pros from the fan verbiage. The flame so to speak. And also not give credence to the pseudo pros that permeate the internet. Guys who will tell you about how they beat so and so and "broke even with Efren". Which you know in your heart is a joke. With the internet there is verification which is easily accesible to us.

Yes it will be in time. But unless those that are holding up the higher standards can take the leadership and present the sport as a science and philosophical form it will be a long time.

Very true - and leadership needs to come from both entities on this venue along with the Pros that post here. I know one female pro that posts on AZ that might bite her tongue on occasion to refrain from starting a John Schmidt type of flame war. She might make a point or two but it is in the manner that she makes it that keeps it in the right professional context. Otherwise, she vents by PM.

I wish, as you do, that the pseudo pros could be outted but many of their claims are made with no one around anymore to defend or deny it or people simply can't remember. These pseudo pros have told their tale so many times that I am sure that some people doubt themselves now. This site has many great people of knowledge that you mentioned along with historians such as Terry Ardeno/Black Jack or people that were there like Jay Helfert, Billy Incardona, etc. Hopefully they will start to and can out some of the pseudos, as you called them.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I think youre underestimating a lot of people. As someone who was born in the late 40's we went through a kind of structure where we were not asked to express our feelings through action or conversation but through the pen and ink. Our heroes were Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Arthur Miller, and Tennesee Williams to name a few. Our past times were reading and more reading. Today the need to focus on classics is not a priorities and those that do make it an elitist circle.
Talk to someone like Danny Diliberto who has studied Latin and can talk and articulate on many different topics. A master as well in Poolology if there is such a word. How round objects react to other round objects, etc.

When I talked to Earl S at one event he was damn eloquent about the break in 9 ball. All you had to do is ask. And he could tell you where to hit and how hard. And he had a strong philosophy about it too. Read some of Nick Varners past articles in Billiards Digest. More eloquent in any as to the science of the safety play.

What is needed is the venue and leadership. Maybe guys like Steve, George Fels, or you (I know your knowledge of constitutional law) can help moderate such things. We also need to protect these pros from the fan verbiage. The flame so to speak. And also not give credence to the pseudo pros that permeate the internet. Guys who will tell you about how they beat so and so and "broke even with Efren". Which you know in your heart is a joke. With the internet there is verification which is easily accesible to us.

Yes it will be in time. But unless those that are holding up the higher standards can take the leadership and present the sport as a science and philosophical form it will be a long time.

I don't mean to underestimate anyone. I think there are plenty of great examples to look for but on the whole, the professionals do not post here and I can't help but wonder if it's because some lack a comfort in writing. I also don't mean to suggest that older people are less inclined to write but rather, younger people are more apt to post their thoughts online whether it be a blog, forum or status update on facebook.

 

[yobagua]

I don't mean to underestimate anyone. I think there are plenty of great examples to look for but on the whole, the professionals do not post here and I can't help but wonder if it's because some lack a comfort in writing. I also don't mean to suggest that older people are less inclined to write but rather, younger people are more apt to post their thoughts online whether it be a blog, forum or status update on facebook.

I really didnt think you did. Youre too knowledgable for that. But I think its the format rather than a "a lack of comfort". If we can present a pros corner or something like that with a moderator to edit or steer the discussion into the right arena it might make more pros AND teachers write.
I know there are a lot of questions that posters have that pertain to their game and to the different games themselves. Be it 14.1, 1 Pkt, 9 ball, etc. Without a way to get answers pool becomes a game and not a sport.

 

[mantis99]

I think an interesting question is how do you know how much natural talent you have. Thorsten Hohmann may have played at a world class level in 2 yrs, but i am sure he did not play for 30 minutes 4 x a wk. I believe there is a fairly significant time requirement to become a top level player at this game, and most people simply don't have the time to dedicate to get to that level. At what point can you stop saying "I just don't have the time needed to get to that level," and say "I just don't have the talent to get to that level, because if I did, I would be better than I am right now given how much I play". What do you think the minumum time requirement is to play at an "A" level or better, and what should someone expect if they can only play an hour 3-4 times a wk. For example, by the time I am able to play it is usually 9:30 to 10:00. That leaves me about a half hour to play, and I am usually too tired to get any real focused play/practice. While I certainly don't think I have world class natural talent, I often wonder how good a talented person would be if they played as much as me, or if they only had an hour or two each night.

 

[sjm]

I think an interesting question is how do you know how much natural talent you have. Thorsten Hohmann may have played at a world class level in 2 yrs, but i am sure he did not play for 30 minutes 4 x a wk.

See post #40 in this thread.

 

[mantis99]

Thanks, I missed that post. I still wonder what the minimum time it would take to be that good seems to be, and where the average person that only has a much more limited amount of time should expect to peak.

 

[ShootingArts]

military

Thanks, I missed that post. I still wonder what the minimum time it would take to be that good seems to be, and where the average person that only has a much more limited amount of time should expect to peak.

Seems like I read his job in the military was to shoot pool. Many countries do that with athletes. When pool is your eight hour a day five day a week job for a few years it makes a huge difference.

Hu