In regards to John Schmidt, the champion

John-a different question

How long ago was it that you had the little motorhome (Mini-Winnebago)? I might have seen it in the lot at one of the first Shooters- Labor Day-$5000 Added tournaments in Riverside, CA. (those tournament room Ernesto tables were tough.)

Did that RV end up with Nick? Do you stay in touch with Nick, Gary, Damien from that area. For some reason-I'm thinking Nick might have made it back east to visit-maybe at the DCC several years ago.

Continued success to you. Enjoy having you here. Warts and all.

I kinda like -"rather be eaten by a goat and shit off a cliff". I don't get it- but it's a colorful image.

Take care

OBTW: I played you once. I lost. You beat me soundly but graciously. I'm OK with that.

3railkick
 
JB Cases said:
I think we are still evolving, mentally and physically. Now that we don't have to hunt for subsistence and spend all of our mental energy figuring out how to outsmart animals we can devote it to figuring out ourselves.

This forum is an obvious example that we, as a species, have a ways to go on that front, but also a good example of how far we have come.

So yes, the exceptions now of people starting late and excelling at their chosen sports are rare but who knows what the future will bring?

Anyone who says that people are done for, over at, can't improve after a certain age is foolish because people prove them wrong time and time again. The only age that people surely aren't able to improve some aspect ofthemselves is when they die and I am not so sure of that actually.
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Lol, yes, good post.

I don't feel comfortable saying that "humans wont develope in Pool after they turn into their 40'ies", as for sure some players might become more wiser and realize for example something what they were not able to realize when they were younger and full of anxiety.

But then again, I guess the point has been made now many times already.


@ Hu; yes, peaking at sport, and the peaking years of learning, are different.

In Pool, players many times reach their peak much much later than in sports where the physical skills are more required, ie. Tennis, sprinting etc..
That's obvious, cos you can do the technical part pretty well until the old age, if your health approves, and many times the mental strength comes during age and experience and I've hear for example Mika state that the prime years of a Pool player average at 35.

Now, when Wu won double WC at 16 years of age and many other youngsters have peaked very young and lost it later, I don't know is it like that anymore so clearly, but I still want to pull my favourite example and dig the Legendary Efren Reyes here:

Efren has said that he played his best games in the 70'ies (not when he "was in his seventies", but in 1970'ies ;)).
Then again, he won his first US.Open at 1994 and his first World Champs at 1999. At 40yrs- and 45yrs of age. When he won "The Biggest Ever" tournament, the IPT World Open at Reno, he was 52 (2006).

That is good example of learning to become a Champion by time and wisdom, eventhough you have been "worlds best" already more than two decades ago.
That is one of the reasons why Efren is still one of the best today, when he's already 55. His prime lasted for few decades, at 2006 he was still best in the World, there just wasn't anymore enough challenge in the other tournaments than IPT.
If Pool would be in Olympics now, He would still win :)

On the other hand, those who won everything very young, who played more with the ambition, not so much with love and heart, they either retired or just started losing it. They are many, Sigel for example is just couple of years older than Efren - he peaked 30yrs ago and retired almost 20yrs ago. Archer hasn't won a major in Decade, not even been close winning it, and he's still 'young'. Earl having bit similarities in his story..
 
I agree completely

Marvel said:
Lol, yes, good post.

I don't feel comfortable saying that "humans wont develope in Pool after they turn into their 40'ies", as for sure some players might become more wiser and realize for example something what they were not able to realize when they were younger and full of anxiety.

But then again, I guess the point has been made now many times already.


@ Hu; yes, peaking at sport, and the peaking years of learning, are different.

In Pool, players many times reach their peak much much later than in sports where the physical skills are more required, ie. Tennis, sprinting etc..
That's obvious, cos you can do the technical part pretty well until the old age, if your health approves, and many times the mental strength comes during age and experience and I've hear for example Mika state that the prime years of a Pool player average at 35.

Now, when Wu won double WC at 16 years of age and many other youngsters have peaked very young and lost it later, I don't know is it like that anymore so clearly, but I still want to pull my favourite example and dig the Legendary Efren Reyes here:

Efren has said that he played his best games in the 70'ies (not when he "was in his seventies", but in 1970'ies ;)).
Then again, he won his first US.Open at 1994 and his first World Champs at 1999. At 40yrs- and 45yrs of age. When he won "The Biggest Ever" tournament, the IPT World Open at Reno, he was 52 (2006).

That is good example of learning to become a Champion by time and wisdom, eventhough you have been "worlds best" already more than two decades ago.
That is one of the reasons why Efren is still one of the best today, when he's already 55. His prime lasted for few decades, at 2006 he was still best in the World, there just wasn't anymore enough challenge in the other tournaments than IPT.
If Pool would be in Olympics now, He would still win :)
On the other hand, those who won everything very young, who played more with the ambition, not so much with love and heart, they either retired or just started losing it. They are many, Sigel for example is just couple of years older than Efren - he peaked 30yrs ago and retired almost 20yrs ago. Archer hasn't won a major in Decade, not even been close winning it, and he's still 'young'. Earl having bit similarities in his story..
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Marvel,

I agree completely with what you posted to me. "Fastest and easiest" indeed doesn't mean the only time you can learn something. Efren peaked as a shotmaker very young in his viewpoint although he obviously had flashes of that speed after eye surgery. Efren was damned near blind for a decade or longer while he was still winning world class events!

I think the older Efren would have been more than a match for the young Efren because what he lost in shot making he more than made up for in knowledge and experience.

I am seeing some monster kids now who have the eyes and young bodies needed to make terrific shots and have gained an old man's knowledge through instruction, books, and DVD's. When one of these comes along with the heart and love of the game to stay with it a few decades we will see play such as we have never seen.

I have peaked three times in my life physically, once in my early twenties and twice in my thirties, early and late. The first two times were just due to life's activities, the third time was deliberate, running and the gym. No idea when I peaked mentally, we don't peak and crash.

It seems to me that most pool players reach their peak in their late twenties or thirties. I think that this is because of years in the game. Most take it up seriously in their late teens or twenties and although you may be at your greatest as a ball pocketer within a few years, the smarts used to take much longer when you had to learn everything the hard way.

Perhaps the greatest ball pocketer I ever shot against was a stoner hippie in his early twenties. He had the eyes of an eagle and not a nerve in his body. He made "impossible" cut shots more often than not. We battled for months with no clear winner, he had the edge cutting, I had the edge banking. However my ball cutting skills and confidence improved tremendously just playing him for that long.

Hu
 
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NYC cue dude said:
I agree with JAM that John shouldn't come here anymore if the experience isn't enjoyable. That goes for any member.

Rg
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I don't think anyone should be forced to be made uncomfortable here, much less a pro who takes the time to even be here to talk to their fans.

When I was in Hollywood, Florida this year for the WPBA Championships, I had trouble carrying some bags. John Schmidt came over to help me to the concierge. With a newly healed arm from being broken, no less. John Schmidt is a champion and a gentleman.
 
sjm said:
...As for whether pros should post here, that all depends on what they seek. For example, John Schmidt himself and Danny Harriman have, in the past, used AZB to try to generate sales of DVDs of their 14.1 high runs. Other pros also use the forum to publicize and advocate purchase of their teaching aids and materials. John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch and a few other pros recently used AZB to campaign for a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. Pros such as Donnie Mills, third place finisher in this year's US Open, regularly use this forum to try to solicit action matches. All of them have gotten access to the pool community not otherwise available to them by posting in these AZB parts, and in every case, they were right to post as they did.

However, AZB is not a one-way conversation. Any pro who posts is beginning a dialogue with the pool community, which consists of good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. One advantage on AZB, however, is that anyone posting here can step away from communicating whenever they please, simply by desisting from additional posting. When any poster, pro or not, makes that decision, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.
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Hi Stu. There is another type of pro, or almost pro, type poster. There are the very select few of us - and I certainly include you in that list - who go out of our way to actually impart pool knowledge. I don't read the forums much anymore, and a lot of it has to do with lack of response to threads I spent quite some time on. After I had a nice performance in the Nationals, I wrote a long post with clips from ustream, detailing my thoughts on about 6 or 7 key shots in tricky, real-game situations. I think it got 8 replies and almost no rep. I can think of not one example in this entire forum's history where a pro or semi-pro player wrote such a long post like that - with video clips - and let people so far into his way of thinking. The lack of response was maddening.

Posters like Jude, who often sets up WEI diagrams in the main forum and gets great discussions going, are rarely mentioned in the "Why don't the pros post here?" threads, but gee, aren't people learning a lot more from his posts than from any of the full-fledged pros who come on here?

As far as the pros go, in my limited reading of the forum, John Schmidt is the only one on this site who has ever really contributed. Though he doesn't talk about specific situations, he's actually very encouraging to the rest of us. He chimes in just to congratulate someone on running their first 40. How strong is that, to get a congrats from someone of his stature? So John is exempt in my book.

- Steve
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Hi Stu. There is another type of pro, or almost pro, type poster. There are the very select few of us - and I certainly include you in that list - who go out of our way to actually impart pool knowledge. I don't read the forums much anymore, and a lot of it has to do with lack of response to threads I spent quite some time on. After I had a nice performance in the Nationals, I wrote a long post with clips from ustream, detailing my thoughts on about 6 or 7 key shots in tricky, real-game situations. I think it got 8 replies and almost no rep. I can think of not one example in this entire forum's history where a pro or semi-pro player wrote such a long post like that - with video clips - and let people so far into his way of thinking. The lack of response was maddening.

Posters like Jude, who often sets up WEI diagrams in the main forum and gets great discussions going, are rarely mentioned in the "Why don't the pros post here?" threads, but gee, aren't people learning a lot more from his posts than from any of the full-fledged pros who come on here?

As far as the pros go, in my limited reading of the forum, John Schmidt is the only one on this site who has ever really contributed. Though he doesn't talk about specific situations, he's actually very encouraging to the rest of us. He chimes in just to congratulate someone on running their first 40. How strong is that, to get a congrats from someone of his stature? So John is exempt in my book.

- Steve
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I can relate, and I empathize with your stance. I, too, have taken a great deal of time to contribute content to threads, only to have no mention or any dialogue ensue thereafter. Yet, the flame threads multiple like wildfire. Within an hour, there may be 1- to 2,000 hits and 10 pages of posts.

I respect your opinion, but I must insert that there are some pros who used to contribute a lot of content and respond to posts on a daily basis -- PRIVATELY AND ON THE PUBLIC FORUM -- only to be flamed, bashed, and charbroiled at every turn by the usual multiple-identitied trolls and forum bullies. It gets a little old, resulting in them not wanting to participate on this forum.

When you have written posts in the past, I have read them with interest and appreciation. I may not rep you or even respond to your posts, but I do recognize your contributions to this forum. Hopefully, you will continue to enjoy your participation here. :smile:
 
I always appreciate dialogue from the pros & highly skilled members. It is unfortunate that the flame wars become front page news so readily, and equally a shame when people get sucked into that vacuum. I usually skim past them - though I do sometimes fall victim to the wreck on the side of the road mentality, too. Spirited discussion, even pointed disagreement, is healthy enough. But it usually ends up feeling like a personal failure to waste time arguing with those you consider fools.
 
Champion

John is a Champion, pure and simple, and I respect that a lot, and I have played Pool for 48 years. But, he is not exempt from the normal discourse that exists on forums such as AZB. So, he gets pissed off now and then, what's the big deal, so do I and every other poster on here.

The fact that he takes time out of his life to post on here says a lot about him, and how much he cares about his fans (and I am one of his fans).
I may, or may not, agree with him all the time, but I do respect and appreciate him.

We all learn from each other, pro or amateur, and that keeps us on the road to progress. What is important is the sharing and the learning together.

And what is with the 'rep' button, I tried to rep SJM (Stu), and it told me I have to spread it around first, but I haven't repped anyone since Moby Dick was a minnow (I'm tough on rep).

BTW, I voted for John to be on the Mosconi Cup, although Dennis Hatch was a close 2nd for me.
 
There is obviously only one way to settle this. Get a world class pool teacher, and a rail beater who has the desire and isn't a cripple, and let the prop bet begin. 1 year to go from rail beater to champ. $200k on the line. GO!

My view on this subject doesn't matter but for the sake of the game itself its probably better for top players to not be saying on pool forums that they don't think just anybody can become a champion. The pool economy needs the just anybodys to hope and dream they can become champions.

I'm glad John apologized.
 
JAM said:
I respect your opinion, but I must insert that there are some pros who used to contribute a lot of content and respond to posts on a daily basis -- PRIVATELY AND ON THE PUBLIC FORUM -- only to be flamed, bashed, and charbroiled at every turn by the usual multiple-identitied trolls and forum bullies. It gets a little old, resulting in them not wanting to participate on this forum.
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The reason for that is simple. A lot of people have no hope of competing with these pros on a pool table so they compete at a keyboard by wolfing at them. These same guys who bark at John on this site would be quiet as a mouse if John walked into a pool hall and announced he wanted to play them some 14.1 for the cash.

The mistake John and other pros make is in responding to these people. If you ignore them they will go away. If you respond then it encourages more like them to get into the act. It's like feeding a stray cat, before long every stray cat in the neighborhood will be hanging around.
 
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May I chime in on this?

This forum, like any other large organization, offers so much to so many. Members contribute according to their knowledge, experience, interests, and daily moods. Granted that Az centers around the sport of pool, but one can contribute on many levels, at different times, and in different forms.

I don't believe that anyone can question the enormous value of having professionals and life long students of the game contribute here. And no one diminishes the excitement and interest that Jay, Keith, Steve, John, Chris, and many other outstanding contributors instantly garner when we see one of their posts. They are the stars.

But who can say that they haven't enjoyed a drunken midnight rant by someone that dogged match shot and needed a place to vent. Or who hasn't asked for advice, a prayer for a loved one, or just expresed a political opinion, in the NPR. There are also members that are here mainly to sell or trade their pool wares. It is all of these contributions together that make Az such a great place, not one over the other.

While there are a few that just like to "stir the pot", and there's nothing wrong with getting a spark going every now just to keep things interesting, there is certainly no room, reason, or place for disrespect, personal insults, lies, or any behavior intended to be harmful to another on anyone's part.

Respect and consideration are two way streets that sometimes require body armour to travel on.

JMHO

Jim
 
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Steve Lipsky said:
Hi Stu. There is another type of pro, or almost pro, type poster. There are the very select few of us - and I certainly include you in that list - who go out of our way to actually impart pool knowledge. I don't read the forums much anymore, and a lot of it has to do with lack of response to threads I spent quite some time on. After I had a nice performance in the Nationals, I wrote a long post with clips from ustream, detailing my thoughts on about 6 or 7 key shots in tricky, real-game situations. I think it got 8 replies and almost no rep. I can think of not one example in this entire forum's history where a pro or semi-pro player wrote such a long post like that - with video clips - and let people so far into his way of thinking. The lack of response was maddening.

Posters like Jude, who often sets up WEI diagrams in the main forum and gets great discussions going, are rarely mentioned in the "Why don't the pros post here?" threads, but gee, aren't people learning a lot more from his posts than from any of the full-fledged pros who come on here?

As far as the pros go, in my limited reading of the forum, John Schmidt is the only one on this site who has ever really contributed. Though he doesn't talk about specific situations, he's actually very encouraging to the rest of us. He chimes in just to congratulate someone on running their first 40. How strong is that, to get a congrats from someone of his stature? So John is exempt in my book.

- Steve
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You know Steve I stopped posting and visiting here as I got into poker. On the poker sites there is much more attention given to technique as well as strategy. Mathemetical equations and bankroll building is also greatly discussed. Recently I joined a pro poker teaching site (PokerXFactor) where they actually show the Hand history of a tournament and discuss the optimal moves and the mistake one makes during a match. They also have pros that come on and will talk about their strategy during an event and particular hands. Consequently the rate of development is far much higher and there is more success on the felt.

Last year I had a nice 5 figure income from poker which I can say is what many top pool champions would aspire for. Such is the way things go.
Perhaps now is a time for such a teaching site for pool players. Ive tried now to put all the scientific things Ive learned in poker to pool. Questions like when should I shoot a shot that Im liable to miss 1 out of 3 times. What should I bet vs my bankroll? Loose agressive or Tight conservative with different opponents? Strategy and technique is what seems to be missing in these general forums and maybe you can start something with some pros and reputable teachers.

Seems like this forum is basically for people to let off steam and also brag about their accomplishments and who they know. Science and psychology is totally missing.
 
Hi Steve, hope you're well.

I defnitely know where you are coming from. Table talk was far more common on the forum a few years ago, and generated far more interest. I used to post countless shots, many of them "How Would You Play This?" and others to celebrate or analyze a shot that occurred at tournaments I have attended over the years but, to a large extent, I rarely bother anymore. There are a few AZB members, of course, and Jude and Neil come to mind immediately, who still produce good "How would you play this?" threads.

The undeniable truth is that the forum has evolved into something new. The nostalgic and the pool politics threads, which have always fascinated me, are as good as they ever have been. Coverage of the international pool scene on the forum, which I absolutely love, has never been better. Like you, however, I miss the game theory element that used to be more prevalent in these AZB parts.

As for John Schmidt, I'm one of his biggest fans, and, to some extent, explained why in post #32 of this thread. He's a quality guy.

Steve Lipsky said:
Hi Stu. There is another type of pro, or almost pro, type poster. There are the very select few of us - and I certainly include you in that list - who go out of our way to actually impart pool knowledge. I don't read the forums much anymore, and a lot of it has to do with lack of response to threads I spent quite some time on. After I had a nice performance in the Nationals, I wrote a long post with clips from ustream, detailing my thoughts on about 6 or 7 key shots in tricky, real-game situations. I think it got 8 replies and almost no rep. I can think of not one example in this entire forum's history where a pro or semi-pro player wrote such a long post like that - with video clips - and let people so far into his way of thinking. The lack of response was maddening.

Posters like Jude, who often sets up WEI diagrams in the main forum and gets great discussions going, are rarely mentioned in the "Why don't the pros post here?" threads, but gee, aren't people learning a lot more from his posts than from any of the full-fledged pros who come on here?

As far as the pros go, in my limited reading of the forum, John Schmidt is the only one on this site who has ever really contributed. Though he doesn't talk about specific situations, he's actually very encouraging to the rest of us. He chimes in just to congratulate someone on running their first 40. How strong is that, to get a congrats from someone of his stature? So John is exempt in my book.

- Steve
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I told you's so....

Is that John Schmit posting in AZ, say it aint so...LOL. Type A's are so easy to spot...J/K... I just know he likes to talk and talk and talk way to much to not post...And the crazy ex-girlfriend is always the best in bed thas why you cant stay away....LOL

John...Were might I geta loook at your apology...I would like to seee what you had to say...No I wont make fun of it:cool:, just wondering... Personaly this whole thing is so crazy Im suprisedyou did comment further, Definetly proves anybody can be anythng, on the internet :p.

P.S. I added a new trick to my bag this week. When its so cold the leafs are frozen to the groud what do you do..GO TO THE POOL ROOM ALL DAMN DAY...:thumbup:
 
Steve Lipsky said:
Hi Stu. There is another type of pro, or almost pro, type poster. There are the very select few of us - and I certainly include you in that list - who go out of our way to actually impart pool knowledge. I don't read the forums much anymore, and a lot of it has to do with lack of response to threads I spent quite some time on. After I had a nice performance in the Nationals, I wrote a long post with clips from ustream, detailing my thoughts on about 6 or 7 key shots in tricky, real-game situations. I think it got 8 replies and almost no rep. I can think of not one example in this entire forum's history where a pro or semi-pro player wrote such a long post like that - with video clips - and let people so far into his way of thinking. The lack of response was maddening.

Posters like Jude, who often sets up WEI diagrams in the main forum and gets great discussions going, are rarely mentioned in the "Why don't the pros post here?" threads, but gee, aren't people learning a lot more from his posts than from any of the full-fledged pros who come on here?

As far as the pros go, in my limited reading of the forum, John Schmidt is the only one on this site who has ever really contributed. Though he doesn't talk about specific situations, he's actually very encouraging to the rest of us. He chimes in just to congratulate someone on running their first 40. How strong is that, to get a congrats from someone of his stature? So John is exempt in my book.

- Steve
Click to expand...

I think you would have got a lot more replies to your thread if it was in the Main Forum instead of 14-1 forum. Could be an idea to post it both places next time?
 
alstl said:
The reason for that is simple. A lot of people have no hope of competing with these pros on a pool table so they compete at a keyboard by wolfing at them. These same guys who bark at John on this site would be quiet as a mouse if John walked into a pool hall and announced he wanted to play them some 14.1 for the cash.

The mistake John and other pros make is in responding to these people. If you ignore them they will go away. If you respond then it encourages more like them to get into the act. It's like feeding a stray cat, before long every stray cat in the neighborhood will be hanging around.
Click to expand...

Al,
Everything you say is true.

However, just to start a new trend; I'll bark at JS...I have $100 that says I can beat him at straight pool (I would bet more, but I don't want to take advantage:smile::smile:)....it will need to be a long race, however....just to make sure I have a "chance".....I say race to 1000....money well spent....
 
yobagua said:
You know Steve I stopped posting and visiting here as I got into poker. On the poker sites there is much more attention given to technique as well as strategy. Mathemetical equations and bankroll building is also greatly discussed. Recently I joined a pro poker teaching site (PokerXFactor) where they actually show the Hand history of a tournament and discuss the optimal moves and the mistake one makes during a match. They also have pros that come on and will talk about their strategy during an event and particular hands. Consequently the rate of development is far much higher and there is more success on the felt.

Last year I had a nice 5 figure income from poker which I can say is what many top pool champions would aspire for. Such is the way things go.
Perhaps now is a time for such a teaching site for pool players. Ive tried now to put all the scientific things Ive learned in poker to pool. Questions like when should I shoot a shot that Im liable to miss 1 out of 3 times. What should I bet vs my bankroll? Loose agressive or Tight conservative with different opponents? Strategy and technique is what seems to be missing in these general forums and maybe you can start something with some pros and reputable teachers.

Seems like this forum is basically for people to let off steam and also brag about their accomplishments and who they know. Science and psychology is totally missing.
Click to expand...

tap tap tap
 
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