Installing Worsted Wool Cloth

Bucknut

Bucknut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am getting ready to install a new table into my home and have a question for some of you experts. I have heard differing opinions on this and wanted to get your opinions on it. When installing Simonis, Accuguard, or any other worsted wool cloth what do you feel is the best way to get the most speed out of the cloth. Do you stretch end to end and then side to side or do you pull from corner to corner and work your way around the table? Also what do you feel is the best way to do the rails and not have it loose without dimpling the cushions? I have a 9' Olhausen on order with 4 1/2" corners and 5" Sides. Any feedback would be appreciated.
 
Jay's got it. The DVDs have a lot of great information on how to cover slate and rails RIGHT with worsted cloth.
 
there are professional that don't install simonis very good and are afraid to use it. If you really want to do it yourself you should buy the videos.
 
Maybe it's changed but I was under the impression that the dvd set was available only to people in the trade.

And to OP - side to side then the ends but to get it done right you're better served to find someone
(like one of the AZ mechanics) with Simonis installation experience.
 
If you live in Southern California, then by all means have Donny of SDBilliards do it for you. He's the best. He'll do a terrific job on the rails, stretching the bed cloth precisely and leveling that table the right way. When he's done, you'll have the best playing Oldhausen in the state and you'll be completely satisfied.
 
Cloth

With all you've spent so far, it would make sense to consider spending what's left to have it installed correctly. It's not as easy as it looks in the Youtube videos.
 
Just a few hints from my personal experience.

Lay the cloth on the slate and smooth it out. Go all around the table and mark the cloth at the edge of the slate with a soap stone. It's the marker that tailors use. This will let you know how much you are stretching the cloth and if you are doing it evenly.

Before you stretch the cloth.... mist it with a spray bottle.... don't soak it... you just want to put some moisture in it. This is especially important in a dry climate. It helps the cloth stretch and if you don't do it you might have wrinkles as the cloth grows when the humidity goes up. This also helps when doing the pockets on the rail cloth.

It really is not important as to the sequence you use to stretch it. The simonis instructions are good but you can do it any other way as long as you end up even all the way around. I stretch and staple the centers the long way and then across but that's just me.

I know some will forcefully disagree with me but this is what I have learned from my own experience and it works for me.

Kim
 
I'm one of those that will forcefully (but respectfully disagree).

You do not want (or need) to mist, moisten, dampen, or in any other way wet the cloth to install it tight.

The stretch pattern ABSOLUTELY does matter if you want it installed evenly and properly with your pockets cut in tightly.

No disrespect meant, Whammo, but this is one example of the fact that there are probably hundreds of people around the country who have installed Simonis cloth before, and a very small percentage that know how to do it RIGHT.

I'm no better either...I'll put it this way...I was one of the guys who thought I was doing a pretty good job until I learned the RIGHT way to install Simonis.

By the way...we keep referring to Simonis here, and Simonis and other worsted wools will show poor technique, but the same stretch patterns and techniques apply to pretty much every brand of cloth out there. Basically, you either can install cloth properly, or you can't. Simonis will call you out on it if you can't. :D

From your avatar and username, I'm just guessing...are you in Ohio? If so, give me a call and I'll give you a quote. I've worked on tons and tons of Olhausens and installed tons and tons of Simonis.
 
I do work in the industry by the way. Our installers do a great job, but I was just wanting to see how others do it. I was just wondering if there was another way to do it because we don't do as much worsted wool as some of you guys do. We sell to alot of homeowners that don't want to pay the extra money to get the Simonis.
 
Bucknut said:
I do work in the industry by the way. Our installers do a great job, but I was just wanting to see how others do it. I was just wondering if there was another way to do it because we don't do as much worsted wool as some of you guys do. We sell to alot of homeowners that don't want to pay the extra money to get the Simonis.
Click to expand...

You are the reason the DVDs were made. LOL Seriously, get them. It will show you (and your installers) the RIGHT way to install Simonis, Accu-guard, and everything else. I don't care how good you think your installers are, the DVDs will make them better.
 
Club Billiards said:
I'm one of those that will forcefully (but respectfully disagree).

You do not want (or need) to mist, moisten, dampen, or in any other way wet the cloth to install it tight.

The stretch pattern ABSOLUTELY does matter if you want it installed evenly and properly with your pockets cut in tightly.

No disrespect meant, Whammo, but this is one example of the fact that there are probably hundreds of people around the country who have installed Simonis cloth before, and a very small percentage that know how to do it RIGHT.

I'm no better either...I'll put it this way...I was one of the guys who thought I was doing a pretty good job until I learned the RIGHT way to install Simonis.

By the way...we keep referring to Simonis here, and Simonis and other worsted wools will show poor technique, but the same stretch patterns and techniques apply to pretty much every brand of cloth out there. Basically, you either can install cloth properly, or you can't. Simonis will call you out on it if you can't. :D

From your avatar and username, I'm just guessing...are you in Ohio? If so, give me a call and I'll give you a quote. I've worked on tons and tons of Olhausens and installed tons and tons of Simonis.
Click to expand...

I am not going to argue with you. You are a professional installer and know what you are talking about.

I installed my simonis cloth on a 9 foot table and stretched it as tight as I could pull it. I stapled it to the slate frame. I did this in december when the humidity was about 25 percent. In April we had a lot of rain and the humidity went to 55 percent. I had wrinkles form in the bed and you could pick up the cloth by pinching it.

Obviously I am not a table mechanic and this was my first time with simonis.

So off came the cloth but I marked the edge of the slate all around the table before I removed it. I sent the cloth out and had it dry cleaned. I cost 10$ and cleaned it up nice.

When I put it back on, I misted it with water and it stretched another 4 inches in all directions.

It worked fine.

I have seen table mechanics us a mist of water on the rails when stretching around the pockets and it allows the cloth to be put on wrinkle free.

The second time I covered my table I used Championship Tournament cloth that is quite a bit heavier than simonis and is harder to stretch. The water mist really helped on this cloth.

Again..... not a professional and only my experience.

Kim
 
What's you're saying is, in theory, if you expose the cloth to humidity/moisture while installing it, it will be tighter when dry.

I've had the same discussion with a local vendor. They were called out to fix the cloth in a local bar before a tournament. They own and maintain all of their tables. You could easily pick the cloth up off the table about 6-8 inches. The problem was that the glue had not held on one side of the slate, so the cloth had come loose. They claimed that humidity had loosened the cloth and did not come to fix it. Instead, they came and put a new spot on the table since it had loosened enough to not be in the right spot any more.

I covered a couple of 9' tables in the same bar. The cloth had at that point been on the table for 4-5 month longer than their cloth, but in the same environmental conditions. My question to their tech was this... If humidity is the problem, and this table is in the same humidity, why can't you move my cloth, pushing as hard as you can on it?

The answer is technique. I used a proper stretch pattern and made sure my glue held. If your cloth is on there tight and right, it's my impression that humidity just won't loosen it up to the point you can pick it up off the table like that. I could be wrong, but I don't know of anywhere off the top of my head that has THAT broad of a range of humidity. Even here in Ohio, it typically ranges from 50 something % to damn near 100% some days. I feel like that's a pretty broad range of conditions and it just doesn't affect the cloth to THAT degree.

Even on humid days, you can't move the cloth I installed on those tables. I suspect that you weren't using a proper stretch pattern and didn't have the cloth on as tight as you thought you did. Again, not a knock on you...as I said before, I used to think I was doing it right too before I was exposed to this method.

By the way, I re-stretched the vendor's work, got the cloth on tight and put ANOTHER new spot on the table (almost 2" over from their spot!!). It's still on their tight after a fairly humid summer here.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with Josh on this one. Don't ever wet the cloth when installing it! :nono:
It's just not necessary to get the desired results.
Do yourself a favor and check out the Simonis DVD's!
They were produced by two of the best mechanics in the business and the info they have shared is priceless.
 
install

A magician don't show his secrets, there is tricks of the trade when it comes to working on pool tables that maybe will never be shown on a instructional dvd.......but' simonis is on the right track,it gets the job done with acceptable consistent results'
-
Rob.M
 
dontlitethat said:
A magician don't show his secrets, there is tricks of the trade when it comes to working on pool tables that maybe will never be shown on a instructional dvd.......but' simonis is on the right track,it gets the job done with acceptable consistent results'
-
Rob.M
Click to expand...

Rob,

For the record, The Simonis instructional video was not produced to show how to "work on pool tables", rather how to properly install Simonis cloth on the rails and the beds.

By proper installation we are referring to the establishment of a stretch index. how to mark the cloth, how to leave the correct amount of slack in the pockets, how to avoid leaving stretch shadows on the beds and rails, how to stretch the cloth in a rectangular pattern, how to avoid puckers and wrinkles on the rails, and how to do this with both glue down and staple down applications.

We didn't show a glue down with scotch weld 10 because it is not available in all 50 states. It's also not available in Europe.

Finally, Glen and I didn't leave out any "tricks of the trade" when it comes to the installation of Simonis cloth. As a matter of fact we tried to demonstrate a process that any mechanic could follow and learn quickly. If you feel that we left out any vital information that would make the job better or easier, please let Glen and I know so we can do better the next time. Thanks for finding our work and DVDs "acceptable"

Jay
 
Jay

When I started this whole thread that was my concern was that on my old table I ended up with some stretch shadows and I was trying to find information to help my guys to do a better job to get rid of those. Is there any trick to getting rid of those it would be appreciated.
 
Bucknut said:
Jay

When I started this whole thread that was my concern was that on my old table I ended up with some stretch shadows and I was trying to find information to help my guys to do a better job to get rid of those. Is there any trick to getting rid of those it would be appreciated.
Click to expand...



Ok the answer has been given multiple times already in the replys on this post.



Get the DVD's!!!

Then if you have questions about installing cloth correctly ask away.
 
Bucknut said:
Jay

When I started this whole thread that was my concern was that on my old table I ended up with some stretch shadows and I was trying to find information to help my guys to do a better job to get rid of those. Is there any trick to getting rid of those it would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The most common reason for getting stretch shadows on the bed cloth are over stretching the width on the cloth. Simonis must be installed in a rectangular pattern. This process is explained and demonstrated in the DVDs in great detail.

As far as a "trick" the answer is no. I wish it was that simple but the problem your having with shadowing is one of several problems mechanics have when installing Simonis cloth. The DVD addresses these issues, from closing the pockets, to establishing a stretch index, to marking the cloth. Each of these steps are to make the job easier as well as more consistent.

Simonis cloth, if installed properly is no more difficult to work with than any other premium billiard fabric.


Jay
 
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A-1 billiards said:
The most common reason for getting stretch shadows on the bed cloth are over stretching the width on the cloth. Simonis must be installed in a rectangular pattern. This process is explained and demonstrated in the DVDs in great detail.

As far as a "trick" the answer is no. I wish it was that simple but the problem your having with shadowing is one of several problems mechanics have when installing Simonis cloth. The DVD addresses these issues, from closing the pockets, to establishing a stretch index, to marking the cloth. Each of these steps are to make the job easier as well as more consistent.

Simonis cloth, if installed properly is no more difficult to work with than any other premium billiard fabric.


Jay
Click to expand...

I second that!:cool:
 
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