IPT Groupings, Pick 3 That Will Advance

[macguy]

If every player held the same sentiment as the above-referenced, then there wouldn't be a player on the face of the universe who would enter a competitive event because of, again, the above-referenced defeatist attitude.

Pool players I know who have talent never enter an event thinking they aren't going to advance in the charts. Rather, they take it one ball at a time, one game at a time, one match at a time, one round at a time. There's a lot to be said about the power of positive thinking.

Of course, that's why some folks, including myself, are sitting on the rail, on the outside looking in, if you will. It's quite easy to spew out the words that this or that player doesn't have a prayer to win. However, when this or that player does end up winning, all of a sudden they are everybody's darling. Yesterday's unknowns just may be tomorrow's champions. That's the way pool is, and one tournament isn't a measuring stick for a player's capabilities. It is what it is, one tournament. This one, though, happens to be a biggie.

JAM

I agree with you but if most tournaments had fixed draws, a lot of players who would normally play would stay on the side lines. This is not an open tournament but an orchestrated show and players are being asked to do a lot. Travel to play in Europe, take time from jobs and put to a lot of expense based on unrealistic expectations.

I just think some after a real dose of reality may opt out of this thing and cut their loses. KT's cheer leading and promise of riches is over for them before it even started. There should have at the least been a legitimate draw.

 

[watchez]

After reading the way the draw is being done the somewhat lesser players are almost guaranteed not making it through the first rounds, since they are assured their group will contain a world beater. I have played in a lot of big tournaments and you don't expect to win, but hope to at least with the luck of the draw, move up the board a little before getting knocked out. The IPT have all but eliminated that here.

The IPT experience will be short lived for many players who won't even have a chance to finish mid field and share some of the money because the field is being fixed. With all due respect and not honestly knowing how you play, don't you think the draw method has all but made it impossible for you to even imagine a second year in the IPT and it will certainly greatly effect you make any money from this thing.

There is no wishing for a good draw since there is none for the lesser players, just a guaranteed early exit. Just an observation, I could be wrong. I think this first tournament will be a major reality check for many of the players who have a fantasy they will now be making a living from pool.

Mike Sigel is a lesser player & he got a good draw. He now has a real good chance to finish mid field or better.

 

[Colin Colenso]

After reading the way the draw is being done the somewhat lesser players are almost guaranteed not making it through the first rounds, since they are assured their group will contain a world beater. I have played in a lot of big tournaments and you don't expect to win, but hope to at least with the luck of the draw, move up the board a little before getting knocked out. The IPT have all but eliminated that here.

The IPT experience will be short lived for many players who won't even have a chance to finish mid field and share some of the money because the field is being fixed. With all due respect and not honestly knowing how you play, don't you think the draw method has all but made it impossible for you to even imagine a second year in the IPT and it will certainly greatly effect you make any money from this thing.

There is no wishing for a good draw since there is none for the lesser players, just a guaranteed early exit. Just an observation, I could be wrong. I think this first tournament will be a major reality check for many of the players who have a fantasy they will now be making a living from pool.

I've got nothing against them seeding the top 40 recognized tour players and seperating them. I was just a bit stiff that my group managed to pull 2 of the qualifiers (Only 10 of the 40 groups received 2 qualifier) and I think I got 2 of the stronger qualifiers from what I've heard. And Ralf was probably not my choice of top40 pro to pull, having won over 10 national and Euro 8-ball titles among his other amazing credentials recently.

And I missed out on pulling a female or HOF player.

There is still some luck to the draw, but I didn't get the best of it ...

I never thought any mediocre players would make a decent wage out of this tour. They'll cover their expenses and a little bonus if they're lucky. And most would be willing to accept that for the chance of being involved and getting to really test themselves. No doubt, some will be humbled and dissappointed.

But I've long believed that the players who make the top 100 this season will be a pretty quality bunch, and some very good players will not make it. In the end, you've got to have a really good game to stay in. A game good enough to steal the odd match of players the calibre of Breedlove etc.

So if I can't manage to get a few such matches under my belt over the series of 4 tournies, then I don't deserve to stay there. I know there are still plenty looking onto the tour who would rate themselves a fair chance of coming up with those goods.

Anyway Mac, you gotta admit, this is shaping up as one heck of a tourney. I can hardly wait for 2007 (fingers crossed it will continue). The already uneasy rides will become increasingly tough

Colin

 

[Colin Colenso]

is when players progress to the next level, do the 3 that won in level A still stick together in a the new level B group, or is it a complete redraw for groups in level B.

Example - If Efren, Gabe, and Walden win in their group, will Gabe and Walden still be with Efren in level B group, or will they all be in different
level B groups?

The format will be anounced shortly according to http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/news/press_release38.asp.

From what they did say, my guess is no player from any 1 group will come together in the second round. As 40 groups of 5 will narrow to 20 groups of 6, I expect we'll see something like the following:

Group 1:
1st: Group 10
1st: Group 20
2nd: Group 15
2nd: Group 25
3rd: Group 12
3rd: Group 26

Though they may do a similar thing incorporating GLI instead of group position finishes.

Colin

 

[macguy]

Mike Sigel is a lesser player & he got a good draw. He now has a real good chance to finish mid field or better.

That is interesting since they said HOF'ers will be in separate groups and considered top players are also in separate groups, they must be considering him as the top player as well as a HOM'er just adding to the draw decision making being suspect. Lets face it, they are sitting around and deciding who will play who and that is not how it should be done. At this point, they should just draw and let the chips fall where they may, I don't see how that would hurt other then not to pad the field for selected players in the beginning.

 

[jsp]

I agree with you but if most tournaments had fixed draws, a lot of players who would normally play would stay on the side lines. This is not an open tournament but an orchestrated show and players are being asked to do a lot. Travel to play in Europe, take time from jobs and put to a lot of expense based on unrealistic expectations.

I just think some after a real dose of reality may opt out of this thing and cut their loses. KT's cheer leading and promise of riches is over for them before it even started. There should have at the least been a legitimate draw.

Macguy, if I looked up the definition of "nitpicker" in the dictionary, I'm sure I'll find your user name there.

I'm sure if they did have a totally random draw, you would be complaining as well...worried about the unlucky amateur who gets mixed with four world beaters. Then you would sympathize with the four world beaters, because at least one of them is guaranteed an early exit. I'm sure your gun was loaded no matter what the outcome of the draw.

And besides, how is this draw any different than seeding players in Wimbledon or in a match-play golf tournament? If an aspiring amateur gets mixed up with Roger Federer or Tiger Woods in the first round, do you think the amateur has much chance getting past the first round? So I'm guessing you're also in favor of having each major tennis tournament have a completely random draw.

But don't forget, this is not single elimination format. The top THREE people advance to the second round. Even if your group is guaranteed two world beaters...you're not even required to beat one of them to advance. Just beat the other 3 schmoes in your group and you're guaranteed to advance to the next round.

I feel the way the IPT did this draw is the most fair. Though, I think things can get messy in the future choosing the draw exactly this way because seeding a player or classifying who is a "world beater" can get subjective.

I'm assuming (at least I hope) that after several tournaments, they will use statistics to determine the seedings. I personally think total racks won (in the season) would be a good way to determine the groupings (NOT GLI). Total racks won would award the players who've participated in the most tournaments and obviously who have gone very deep in those tournaments.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Broxson appears to be no slouch, and Harrison from England is a top player. They could both take matches off Sigel.

I don't know the other guy.

Linda will have her work cut out for her in this group. Good luck Linda

A lot of good players are unknowns here. There aren't too many certainties. Almost any player who comes to the first round a bit edgy or underprepared could be facing an uphill battle.

Colin

Thanks Colin, the same back to you!

I think the way they did the draw was pretty fair. The first 15 groups have the women. The first 10 groups have the extra qualifier. Some of the loaded/weak brackets may have been exactly that, a blind draw, and the results show that. If you highlight all the qualifiers, you can see the alphabetical patterns used to put them in their groups. Sure beats the DOUBLE byes the WPBA used to give out to their seeded players!

 

[Keith Buck]

That is interesting since they said HOF'ers will be in separate groups and considered top players are also in separate groups, they must be considering him as the top player as well as a HOM'er just adding to the draw decision making being suspect. Lets face it, they are sitting around and deciding who will play who and that is not how it should be done. At this point, they should just draw and let the chips fall where they may, I don't see how that would hurt other then not to pad the field for selected players in the beginning.

I know you meant HOF'er here but some people think it looks like Mike got a homer(as in homefield advantage) draw so maybe it was a Freudian typo, lol. I don't have a problem with the way they did the draw but I think it should have been done at the players meeting to reduce the suspicion levels.

 

[Icon of Sin]

correct me if Im wrong but Icon, didnt you pick every single female to qualify?

PS
He's not actually in it BUT I'm still tipping fast larry to win the whole thing and break several world records along the way!

Probably, made that post hours ago. I dont remember what I just ate for lunch 10 mins ago.

 

[sniper]

Even with his tough group, I would definitely look for Nick VD Burg to advance to the next round. Rico Dics is another UK player that will surprise alot of people, you heard it here first


Good luck to all the AZ'ers in Vegas!

 

[thecardman]

Rico is actually Dutch, but I believe is based in or around London.

From a personal standpoint, Group 34 is a true "Group of Death". Every event that has group phases - whether it be, for example, Soccer or Rugby's World Cup or the IPT - has one and this, by a long way is it.

Darren APPLETON
Allen HOPKINS
Patrick HOLTZ
Mike DAVIS
Takeshi OKUMURA​

This will be the one to watch with regards to things being decided by the GLI Index. I am pretty certain that both British players (Appleton from England and Holtz from Scotland) will make it through. The 3rd one? I have no idea! It's too close to call!

Can't wait for it, though! All this TV coverage on Eurosport!!! Bring it on!!!

 

[frankncali]

Group 1
Alex LELY ***
Lou BUTERA
Jackie BROADHURST
Jon KUCHARO ***
Jason KIRKWOOD ***

Group 2
Neils FEIJEN ***
Karen CORR ***
Ray MARTIN
Wei LIU ***
Greg HOGUE

Group 3
Tuan Kiat GOH ***
Jim REMPE
Sarah ELLERBY
Eric HJORLEIFSON ***
David MATLOCK ***

Group 4
Alex PAGULAYAN ***
Mike MASSEY ***
Tammy JONES
Goran MLADENOVIC ***
Corey HARPER

Group 5
Austin MURPHY ***
Danny BASAVICH ***
Ewa LAURANCE
Sam MONDAY ***
Anthony GINN

Group 6
Mike GULYASSY ***
Earl STRICKLAND ***
Miyuki SAKAI
Chris ORME
Teddy GARRAHAN ***

Group 7
Raj HUNDAL ***
Dallas WEST
Monica WEBB
Ismael PAEZ ***
Scott FROST ***

Group 8
William INCARDONA
Nick VARNER ***
Helena THORNFELDT
Jonathan PENEGAR ***
Rico DIKS ***

Group 9
Gabe OWEN ***
Efren REYES ***
Mary KENNISTON
James WALDEN
Luis CONDO ***

Group 10
Francisco BUSTAMANTE ***
Ed KELLY
Gerda HOFSTATTER
Jim WEAST ***
Andreas KOUKIADAKIS ***

Group 11
Mike SIGEL ***
Philip HARRISON ***
James ROBERTS
David BROXSON ***
Linda CARTER


Group 12
Joe MINICI
Dee ADKINS ***
Marlon MANALO ***
Robin DODSON
Richard BROUMPTON ***

Group 13
Zlatko JAKULJ ***
Loree Jon JONES
John MACIAS
Ernesto DOMINGUEZ ***
Karl BOYES ***

Group 14
Grady MATHEWS
Andreja KLASOVIC ***
Marko LOHTANDER
Allison FISHER ***
Jeff ABERNATHY ***


Group 15
Dennis ORCOLLO ***
Kelly FISHER
Gary ABOOD ***
Wayne CATLEDGE
John KUTCHER ***

Group 16
Ivaca PUTNIK ***
Jimmy WHITE
Quinten HANN
David ALCAIDE ***
Ronato ALCANO ***

Group 17
Bernie FRIEND
Larry SCHWARTZ
George SANSOUCI ***
Johnny ARCHER ***
Denver BARGER ***


Group 18
Pete FUSCO
Ike RUNNELS ***
Shannon DAULTON ***
Corey DEUEL ***
Ronnie WISEMAN

Group 19
Robert MCKENNA
John WIMS
Shane VAN BOENING ***
Thorsten HOHMANN ***
Michael VIDAS ***

Group 20
Jim RANEY
Charles BRYANT ***
Oliver ORTMANN ***
Mika IMMONEN
Gandy VALLE ***

Group 21
Mike LEBRON ***
Vincent FACQUET
Dennis HATCH
Ronnie O’SULLIVAN ***
Sandor TOT ***

Group 22
Leonardo GUNNAR
Tom STORM ***
Daryl PEACH ***
John SCHMIDT ***
Konihiko TAKAHASHI

Group 23
Colin COLENSO
Jimmy FUSCO
George BREEDLOVE ***
Ralf SOUQUET ***
Mark TADEMY ***

Group 24
Jianbo FU ***
Paul BRIENZA
Laurant TRAVERS ***
Jerry CALDERON ***
Sal BUTERA

Group 25
Warren KIAMCO ***
Brian SALEH
Michael ZIMMERMAN
Keith MCCREADY ***
Cliff JOYNER ***

Group 26
Aaron FRANKEN
Sammy JONES
Evgeny STALEV ***
Tony ROBLES ***
Antonio LINING ***

Group 27
Stephan SANTL
Vilmos FOLDES ***
Rodolfo LUAT ***
Jimmy WETCH ***
Mori MANABU


Group 28
Imran MAJID ***
Ralph ECKERT
Thomas KENNEDY ***
Aaron CZETLI ***
Howard VICKERY

Group 29
Lee CHENMAN
Adam WHEELER
Gerry WATSON ***
Shawn PUTNAM ***
Marco MARQUEZ ***

Group 30
Michael CERNERO
Johl YOUNGER
Brian GROCE ***
Jose PARICA ***
Rafael MARTINEZ ***

Group 31
Neil RAYBONE
David RELJIC ***
Rafael GONZALEZ
Rodney MORRIS ***
Tomoki MEKARI ***

Group 32
Tyler EDEY ***
Paul POTIER ***
Kim DAVENPORT
Jason MILLER
Steve MOORE ***

Group 33
Yannick BEAUFILS
Wade CRANE
Fabio PETRONI ***
Max EBERLE ***
Larry NEVEL ***

Group 34
Darren APPLETON ***
Allen HOPKINS
Patrick HOLTZ
Mike DAVIS ***
Takeshi OKUMURA ***


Group 35
Ryan KELLER
Edwin MONTAL ***
Markus JUVA
Markus CHAMAT ***
Arturo RIVERA ***

Group 36
John DITORO
Carl MORRIS
Bernd JAHNKE ***
Jeremy JONES ***
Robb SAEZ ***

Group 37
Lance SALAZAR ***
Danny DILIBERTO
Bobby HUNTER ***
Tony CHOHAN
Troy FRANK ***

Group 38
Ouahbi AMINE
Alejandro CARVAJAL ***
Mick HILL
Charlie WILLIAMS ***
Santos SAMBAJON ***

Group 39
Roland ACOSTA
Chris BARTRAM ***
Frank ALVAREZ
Luc SALVAS ***
Michael SCHMIDT ***

Group 40
Stan TOURANGEAU
Leil GAY
Scotty TOWNSEND ***
Nick VAN DEN BERG ***
Tony CROSBY ***

Sigels grouping had to be picked. Some of the unknowns will hopefully make a few groups exciting.

 

[jamesroberts]

draw

let me be the first to tell you that Sigel's draw is not as easy as everyone is making it out to be......He's gonna have to play good to advance......
my sleeper pick is tony crosby,a great player who is in great shape as well.
I think one thing no one has mentioned is how tough these tables are goin to be with the new gorina cloth.If anyone has played on one of these IPT tables,no one is breaking and running packs at all. Everyone is goin to shoot a lot during there matches,which is gonna lead to upsets.....

 

[Celtic]

Stan Tourangeau is being WAY underestimated here. He is one of the most experienced and successful 8-ball players in the whole field.

 

[hippiepool]

the four that i know of from Indiana are all 8-ball players...
Brian Groce
Denver Barger
Tammie Jones
George breedlove ..look for them to do some damage .

 

[bandido]

Wow, it looks ike IPT did real good with the groupings. The high placers in their recent KOTH were divied up to somewhat (anybody can have a bad day) guarantee top quality play in the closing rounds. This is a good move as this'll put them on the + side of audience attendance. The qualifiers and the initially picked just have to prove that they have the goods (playing ability and marketability) to be in this elite group.

Responses in this thread can somewhat be tiring to follow. Will it be too much to ask for an individual group analysis per thread? Where in the thread people can post most recent (2005&06) player accomplishments for us to see a player's playing level uptrend or downtrend. Comments on players who'll most likely stay up to gamble (this is Vegas baby) and forego resting for the next days encounters. Comments on players that are more likely to party and have a detrimentally high level of alcohol consumption. Discuss other factors that may affect too like jet-lag, possible over-confidence, dazed and amazed by all the hoop-la.....bio-rhythm?

Please don't start argueing about some of the things I wrote above as they are just me. We still do have 8 days to go so this may prove entertaining for all of us.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

The fact is, NO group is truly "easy"...every single player will have to play their heart out to advance. This is serious business. Bad play and a 1st round knock-out can cost a player down the road when it comes time to try and make the top 100. One bad set is all it takes to make you the winner of $100k, or someone who needs to PAY $2,000 and battle it out with a bunch of champs to get a card.

The reality is that everyone's really after the $100,000 and a tour card for next year. The prize money won is a perk for everyone except the elite who will be going for the big bucks. I say that because the prize money is somewhat top-heavy. Despite that, the KT does have a sound argument when he says everyone is going to make more money than they did before. $2,000 just for showing up? Never happened before.

While some groups are not as brutal as others - we call these "easy"..but everytime I say something is easy or a match up is easy - I get proven wrong. The format, the game (8-ball) just everything all around has had an effect. We're so used to assuming that the big-shots in 9ball are going to be a force in this tour. So far, that has not been the case.

The Venetian will be the ultimate stage setter for at least the next full year as far as how the game of 8-ball and the round robin will change the competitive scene.

We will also see how much of an impact time has had, in regards to how well the professional field of players have adapted to the tighter pockets, the cloth, and most importantly - the mindset behind 8-ball. Those who don't adapt will be left in the dust. This is why in the KOTH we saw some killer 9-ball pros basically fall apart.

 

[rukiddingme]

Best of Luck to the Chicago Players!

Wishing nothing but the best for LARRY SCHWARTZ, IKE RUNNELS, and MARCO MARQUEZ.
They did not get a powder puff draw like Seigel (oh...that must of been just the luck of the draw...Yea right...) but they are all very strong players that are capable of surprising those that underestimate them.
ruk

 

[JAM]

The reality is that everyone's really after the $100,000 and a tour card for next year. The prize money won is a perk for everyone except the elite who will be going for the big bucks. I say that because the prize money is somewhat top-heavy. Despite that, the KT does have a sound argument when he says everyone is going to make more money than they did before. $2,000 just for showing up? Never happened before.

Right on the money, Bola Ocho! [pun intended]

While some groups are not as brutal as others - we call these "easy"..but everytime I say something is easy or a match up is easy - I get proven wrong. The format, the game (8-ball) just everything all around has had an effect. We're so used to assuming that the big-shots in 9ball are going to be a force in this tour. So far, that has not been the case.

That's a fact. Now the almighty break won't be quite the determining factor in 8-ball as it is in 9-ball. Though the 8-ball break is important in order for a player to advance, the game strategies and shot-making capabilities will be showcased, IMHO. I'm glad to see 8-ball becoming a mainstay in American pool.

The Venetian will be the ultimate stage setter for at least the next full year as far as how the game of 8-ball and the round robin will change the competitive scene.

We will also see how much of an impact time has had, in regards to how well the professional field of players have adapted to the tighter pockets, the cloth, and most importantly - the mindset behind 8-ball. Those who don't adapt will be left in the dust. This is why in the KOTH we saw some killer 9-ball pros basically fall apart.

Ain't it the truth. You know, it's kind of funny when I think about how some players, when they're in the heat of the battle and in the pressure pit, will get rattled by something as mundane as opening up a bag of potato chips.

At each table, there will be camera men right in the players' faces. The players try to act oblivious to it, but the camera makes noises and moves around the table. Players who get rattled easy must adapt and have the ability to focus and concentrate. This is what separates the lions from the lambs in a setting like this.

JAM

 

[TheOne]

Stan Tourangeau is being WAY underestimated here. He is one of the most experienced and successful 8-ball players in the whole field.

I was told about Stan by Shawn Budd in Las Vegas last year after they said hello. Shawn had won a few titles in Vegas including the Masters and it was obvious they had great respect for each other, I think Stan has won numerous Masters 8 ball titles and probably much more.

This is a tough group.