ipt sigel vs schmidt proved what

[billychips]

Sigel vs. Schmidt gambling

I think Mike's backer can sling out the barrels with almost anyone since he's a billionaire, didn't think about that did you.

Leonard

I can assure you that Sigel's backer can get as much action as he wants if he thinks Mike can beat John for the cheese. However, posting the money would be a must!

 

[ShootingArts]

what was proven

Yes, he did play in the IPT's limited schedule, but that was only for a moment, and he was seeded into the finals. So what did that prove, other than KT liked him.

Jay,

What was proven is that Mike is a BS artis . . . um, Stand-up Philosopher beyond compare! (with apologies to Mel Brooks) :smile:

Hu

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah, he only played in and WON this tournament.

http://www.azbilliards.com/thepros/2000showtourney2003.cfm?eventnum=239

Or did you not know that Jay? Gotta love when people make these smug posts without actually knowing half of the facts. There was some competition in that field for sure, alot of those guys shot great still in 2003 and Sigel came in cold and beat them all just like old times.

I STAND CORRECTED! I'm not too smug to admit I overlooked that one. In fact I think I staked Danny in that tourney. It WAS a strong field!

I never said Mike wasn't a great player. He was! Whether he can still compete at the highest level remains to be seen. One match (even with John Schmidt) does not make him a tournament champion again. I'd like to see Mike play in the upcoming 14.1 event in August and then the U.S. Open in October.

Mike was not impressive in the IPT events. That doesn't mean he can't still play. I think there were many distractions for him at those events. It would not be unprecedented for him to make a comeback at his age. It's been done before. Most notably when Jimmy Caras came out of retirement (more than 10 years) and won the U.S. Open Straight Pool at age 57. Mike Lebron won the U.S. Open when he was about the same age as Mike. Buddy has won many tournaments since he has been in his 50's. And Onofrio Lauri won a major 9-ball tourney at the ripe old age of 69!

But there is a big difference between saying it and doing it. Mike claims that he still plays as good as anyone. So show us!

 

[bignasty]

well i tell you what

I think Mike's backer can sling out the barrels with almost anyone since he's a billionaire, didn't think about that did you.

Leonard

i know a format that WILL prove who the best player is! and i am pretty sure John will play! If mikes billionaire backer will sneeze10 dimes im sure he could prove he was the better player! yes thats right schmidt vs mike in an action all around challenge! race to 400 stright pool race to 10 1 pocket and race to 30 10 ball!lets see if mike OR his backer will PM me! i would love to put this to rest! just a thought.........

 

[bignasty]

well i tell you what

I think Mike's backer can sling out the barrels with almost anyone since he's a billionaire, didn't think about that did you.

Leonard

i know a format that WILL prove who the best player is! and i am pretty sure John will play! If mikes billionaire backer will sneeze10 dimes im sure he could prove he was the better player! yes thats right schmidt vs mike in an action all around challenge! race to 400 stright pool race to 10 1 pocket and race to 30 10 ball!lets see if mike OR his backer will PM me! i would love to put this to rest! just a thought.........

 

[wrldpro]

That is sounding ok except i would want to see a race to 1000 balls best 2 out of 3 forget the 1 pocket and 10 ball those game would prove nothing.2 out of 3 1,000 points for 25,000 to 40,000 sounds good but no backers each player puts up there own cheese so the pressure would be at its highest level.sigel without any doubt is a i say top 10 14:1 tournament player but not gambler with his own cheese.I would never say anybody would be the best straight pool player because there are to many variables like what era of the players and alot of players go through phases of playing there best pool although sigel has been pretty dominant off and on for a long time.Look at Sigel,Mosconi,Crane,Varner,Mizerak,and many others that at times have looked untouchable however some play great in tournaments and others play great for the cheese.

 

[gulfportdoc]

i know a format that WILL prove who the best player is! and i am pretty sure John will play! If mikes billionaire backer will sneeze10 dimes im sure he could prove he was the better player! yes thats right schmidt vs mike in an action all around challenge! race to 400 stright pool race to 10 1 pocket and race to 30 10 ball!lets see if mike OR his backer will PM me! i would love to put this to rest! just a thought...

Chad, you and Justin are all right! Calm and reason in stormy times, as it were. Perfect clarity: put up the cash, and we'll showcase the contest. I suspect Schmidt would go for it in a flash. Not so sure about Sigel...

Doc

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I haven't been riding anyone here. John Schmidt and I don't agree on some things, but that is no different than most posters/members posting. Posting money doesn't make you great. Hate to pop your little bubble. If it does, then Fatboy is the greatest player. What I said is, on paper Mike was the greater player and won. JS had great runs practicing, but that doesn't mean much when it is tournament time. You can't take that 400 with you. Efren is a great player, he proved it year after year. JS hasn't. Tell me how many years you can find him in the top 20 money list on AZ. You will find some great players there finishing in the top 20 year after year. Thats why they are great.

Would I want to play JS for all my cash, NO. If I had to pick from the following Efren, Alex, Johnny, Earl, Thorsten, Mika, Wu, Shane or JS to gamble with and hope for a chance to win... who would you pick? Give me a list of wins other than the U.S open or a practice 400 to prove my point!!!

Regardless of what I post here, correct or not. Idiot, I have called to no one. Disagree with my post all you like, just be a man about it.

giving me Red rep and in the comments saying I am an idiot isn't being much of a man!

You're right, I'm an idiot. Running 400 balls at 14.1 means absolutely nothing. I mean, there are countless guys that play straight pool with runs over 400. Guys like Mike Sigel, Allen Hopkins, Oliver Ortmann - all have runs over 400. In fact, there are 10 guys on this board with runs over 500.

If the nerf helmet fits...............................

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Would I want to play JS for all my cash, NO. If I had to pick from the following Efren, Alex, Johnny, Earl, Thorsten, Mika, Wu, Shane or JS to gamble with and hope for a chance to win... who would you pick?

Make the game 14.1, race to 500. Who would you want to play? I'm guessing Schmidt, right? At straight pool, put them in order of who you think is the strongest to weakest, and if JS isn't your #1 or #2 pick, then the nerf helmet fits.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

Make the game 14.1, race to 500. Who would you want to play? I'm guessing Schmidt, right? At straight pool, put them in order of who you think is the strongest to weakest, and if JS isn't your #1 or #2 pick, then the nerf helmet fits.

Last year 5th. He finished behind Danny, Huidjie, Thorsten.
Year before 9th. he Finished behind Thorsten, Danny.

Based on that, He wouldn't make it any higher than 3rd. Since other people won events he entered, I would put them ahead of him and he wouldn't make my top 5. The thing that is confusing you is, the high run. I'm not talking about who run the most points. I'm talking about who plays better in tournaments. For the greatest walking straight pool player because of his 400 run, how many world 14.1 titles does he have? At the next world event you take John for a $100 and I'll take the rest of the field.

I do think once he breaks through, he very well could be unstoppable for some time... but until then... put your $$ where your mouth is.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Race to 150. All you'd need is a high run of 151 to beat John. IMO, the races to 150 prove nothing on the world stage. The players have become so much better at the game. I'd love to see the 14.1 championships go to a higher count - 150 is pretty much a sprint these days.

Ask anyone on the straight pool forum where they rank John's abilities at 14.1 - he's one of the top 3 in the world today.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Last year 5th. He finished behind Danny, Huidjie, Thorsten.
Year before 9th. he Finished behind Thorsten, Danny.

Based on that, He wouldn't make it any higher than 3rd. Since other people won events he entered, I would put them ahead of him and he wouldn't make my top 5. The thing that is confusing you is, the high run. I'm not talking about who run the most points. I'm talking about who plays better in tournaments. For the greatest walking straight pool player because of his 400 run, how many world 14.1 titles does he have? At the next world event you take John for a $100 and I'll take the rest of the field.

I do think once he breaks through, he very well could be unstoppable for some time... but until then... put your $$ where your mouth is.

Based on tournament results, Strickland is better than SVB. He's won more world titles. Chao Fong Pang has more world titles than Ching Shun Yang. I pick the young guns in either of those matches in a long race format.

Tournaments do not determine who is the best player at that particular game. They determine who was best over that particular tourney. If there were more 14.1 events throughout the year, JS would have many titles. Trust me on that one. BTW, Jason, how many players have runs over 400 in 14.1?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Last year 5th. He finished behind Danny, Huidjie, Thorsten.
Year before 9th. he Finished behind Thorsten, Danny.

How did he do in a long race format against Danny in the Action Challenges at 14.1?

 

[JB Cases]

Race to 150. All you'd need is a high run of 151 to beat John. IMO, the races to 150 prove nothing on the world stage. The players have become so much better at the game. I'd love to see the 14.1 championships go to a higher count - 150 is pretty much a sprint these days.

Ask anyone on the straight pool forum where they rank John's abilities at 14.1 - he's one of the top 3 in the world today.

I don't agree with this assessment. John may very well be one of the top three but until there is organized competition on a recurring basis there isn't much data to support this contention.

In Germany the Bundesliga players play 14.1 each time their teams match up. There is a German and European Championship in 14.1. Germany has many, many players who routinely run a hundred balls or more per inning.

John is straight pool specialist, no doubt. But people like Archer and Pagulayan prove that they can also run hundreds even without specializing in that discipline.

As far as the comment about the players getting "better".... I don't know. It seems to me that running 150 and out on 5x10s with 4.5inch pockets and slow cloth is more of a feat than doing the same on 4.5x9s with fast cloth. Even John himself commented that it's harder to run out on slow cloth.

So it seems to me that when I watch Irving Crane run 150 on slow cloth then the level of play back then was as high or higher then as it is now.

John

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Highest run in Sigel's era (Mosconi aside) was under 400. Today, we have 3 players on the world stage running 400+. To me, that's a sign that today's players are better than the players of the old era. Grady said this exact same thing at the end of one of his instructional videos. The 5x10s had 5" pockets, IIRC.

 

[duker]

I think that Mike even said the IPT was his idea ? He can sure play better then he can call a match, all you hear is ..how good he is. I think when Danny played John in a race to 400, John ran 113, I think, but If I remember right, Danny had 3 runs over a 100 in a 400 point game...how impressive was that !!

 

[bignasty]

hello...

waiting for mike to call! john is the all around champ! mike my number is 1-605-310-4760! its always on! would be a great match for you to come out of "retirement"

 

[JB Cases]

Highest run in Sigel's era (Mosconi aside) was under 400. Today, we have 3 players on the world stage running 400+. To me, that's a sign that today's players are better than the players of the old era. Grady said this exact same thing at the end of one of his instructional videos. The 5x10s had 5" pockets, IIRC.

I think you are mistaken. If I remember correctly Mike Carrella reportedly ran more than 600 balls. And I am sure that Mike Sigel and Allen Hopkins have also ran 400+ at times. Irving Crane's high run is supposed to be 700+. Only Mosconi's record stands because it was witnessed and notarized. There were many more players from the 20s-80s on who were running hundreds, expressed as a percentage of people playing serious pool, than from 1990 until now.

The old 5x10s I grew up on definitely did not have 5" pockets. I don't know what Grady said on his video but I am sure it wasn't something to the effect that today's straight pool players are better than those of his time. I am sure that there was some kind of of qualifier there if he said that. I could ask him if you'd like.

John Schmidt gets a lot of coverage for his 400 ball run and he should. But we shouldn't forget that there are other players still living who have in fact done the same thing and more, when you count their World Championships in straight pool and other titles. John has a ways to go to equal the accomplishments of these great players and with his US Open victory in 9-Ball he is definitely on the way.

John is not a shoo-in to beat Mike Sigel or Allen Hopkins or Nick Varner in a long race in 14.1. One time Mike Sigel set up a break shot and ran 330 balls after having not played for quite a while.

There is a reason that so many players refer to Mike as the greatest player ever. Not that I agree totally with that assessment but when it comes from Mike's peers then it definitely gets a ton of credibility.

 

[Roadkill]

It would be great if Kevin with IPT would offer a one million dollar cash prize to anyone who could beat Mosconi's 526. He could get an insurance company to cover the payout and probably pay only a small premium. It would also act as a great marketing tool for the IPT.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I think you are mistaken. If I remember correctly Mike Carrella reportedly ran more than 600 balls. And I am sure that Mike Sigel and Allen Hopkins have also ran 400+ at times. Irving Crane's high run is supposed to be 700+.

John,
I think you meant Mike Eufemia, not Mike Carella. Eufemia was a 14.1 specialist. Carella, who was murdered on Jan 29, 1979, was a 9 ball specialist.

Crane's HR is 359. That's from multiple sources, including himself. The one w/ the "alleged" HR in the 7's was Arthur "Babe" Cranfield. It was never substantiated. The highest "official" run for Cranfield is 423, still great by any standard.

Also, I sent you a PM about a month ago re: Chao. I found out that several of my PM's, although sent, never arrived. I also never got some during that same stretch that were sent. Did you see it?