Is it possible being a smart, analytical type can actually hold back your game?

Knowing vs Thinking

One of the biggest problems for some 'Pro' golfers is taking their 'game' from the practice range to the Competition Course. Exchange the word practice for learning. It does not really matter how one learns pool. One still has to groove the execution and when 'playing', play! Do not 'think' about mechanics but 'think' about 'playing' the game. There is a difference.

I may have told this story before but it may have been in a PM. So... I arranged to meet a 65 yr. old retired acquaintance of mine that just started playing at Buffaloes Pool Hall after work. He is a 'nice' man & I have & still am helping him along. Anyway, he shows up with his neighbor who is mentally challenged. I'm thinking, what was he thinking. We shoot 3 games, him, his neighbor, & him again. I then tell him that I'm going to sit out & let them play but that I am going to coach his mentally challendged neighbor. Keep in mind we're playing on 9 footers with Simonis. To shorten the story, I coached his neighbor to a relatively easy win. His neighbor did exactly as I directed him to do without question, including english, The point I hoped to make to my acquaitance was that knowing & applying all the different ways to pocket a ball so to make runs is more important than just knowing the mechanics & stroke to 'just' make a ball. I think I got my point across.

Take that for what it is worth. I think pool is like playing chess with big marbles. It takes intelligence but...you still have to have the physical skills to execute your 'moves'.

Before my eye went bad I considered myself a Shooter/Player. Since then I consider myself more of a Player! / Shooter? I can still make the 'difficult' shots, just not as consistantly. Playing less often may also have something to do with that.

Brains vs physical talent? Other 'sports' prefer size & running speed which can not be taught. Pool on the other hand does not require very much physicallity. So other than hand-eye co-ordination, I think the rest can be taught.

The problem, for some golf pros & pool playeers is to take what they have learned & know to the Competion. What that skill is, I'm not sure. It might be WILL over Desire.

Just my 50 cents on the table. Long winded rant = 50 cents, not 2 or 5.
 
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RR and DD... CHEEKY!

ingo, thanks ^^ maybe that's all it is, I'm willing to read a book about or watch a video, but I'm seldom willing to go out and hit fifty balls in practice.

Studies have been done that suggest less intelligent people have a higher tolerance for boredom. Like you don't want a rocket scientist on guard duty. I wonder if being intelligent makes it harder for some people to do something over and over like drills. Probably sounds like I'm making excuses but I'm not talking about myself here, just wondering in general. I have no excuses, I know I need to work to advance. I'm sure dumb people can get bored too. Does anyone find their mind kind of racing and getting distracted with a million other thoughts while trying to drill?

Banks: everyone recommends that book, guess it's time I gave it a look. Letting my subconscious do its job is something I struggle with.

Tramp: you sound like you're going by looks... But trust me, not all dumb people have their mouth hanging open with drool dripping out. Maybe have fooled me right up to the moment they start talking.

Woody: I think that makes sense.
 
CreeDo said:
RR and DD... CHEEKY!
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Thanks.... I try, well not really.. But I do think I'm intellegent. Wait.....what?

Anyway....

Definately not pointing anyone out but honestly, the people I see at the hall who are overthinking and extrapolating every minute detail of everything are usually not the sharpest knives in the drawers and they have no idea either.

I think the lines might be somewhere between intelligence and a certain level of almost OCD. Obsessed with the details and possibilities etc and not of the immediate priority....often to the point of side tracking the matters at hand. The only thing thats important right then.

Otherwise , intellegence and analysis is everything you want. You just have to know how and when to gather the data, what to do with it and then how and when to apply it. I can't tell you how many times I've thought my way out of a match I should have lost when I wasn't playing well. :embarrassed2:
 
What is this "dawg" you speak of?

CreeDo said:
Don't be offended, I'm not saying all good players are dumb or smart people will never shoot good pool. It's just something that came up with some friends... Sometimes it seems like the guys who don't think much and just drill balls in are the ones who make it to the A ranks, while other guys like me are barely B players, we're only 60% to make a shot longer than six feet, and mostly rely on knowledge.

We all know the guy who is a genius at some physical activity like pool but can't spell "dog" with three hints. At the other ends of the spectrum are the armchair teaching types who know all the physics and obscure quirks and rules but never place in the money at any event people have heard of.

Can having a surplus of brains just get in your way?
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Is it possible to have a "surplus of brains"? I had a friend that was in a "Brain Surplus Store" looking for a new brain....the salesman said they had 3 BRAINS that he may be interested in...... the first one was from a LAWYER, the second from a DOCTOR and the third from a POOL PLAYER.....my friend said he may be interested, but wanted to know the price....the salesman said well, the LAWYER IS $30,000, the DOCTOR is $40,000 and the POOL PLAYER is $50,000.....my friend looked at him with surprise and said "why is the POOL PLAYER'S brain so much more expensive than the lawyer or doctor?"...and the salesman smiled and said "BECAUSE IT'S HARDLY BEEN USED":groucho:
 
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CreeDo said:
RR and DD... CHEEKY!

Studies have been done that suggest less intelligent people have a higher tolerance for boredom. Like you don't want a rocket scientist on guard duty. I wonder if being intelligent makes it harder for some people to do something over and over like drills. Probably sounds like I'm making excuses but I'm not talking about myself here, just wondering in general. I have no excuses, I know I need to work to advance. I'm sure dumb people can get bored too. Does anyone find their mind kind of racing and getting distracted with a million other thoughts while trying to drill?

Tramp: you sound like you're going by looks... But trust me, not all dumb people have their mouth hanging open with drool dripping out. Maybe have fooled me right up to the moment they start talking.

It was more of a generalization, than anything, and you're right. The easiest way to spot a dumbass is when they first open their yapper. :smile:
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I enjoy thinking about the physics and geometry of pool, but I doubt it's helped my game.

But I recently tried to teach a couple of young guys a little bit about shot-making. It was a little frustrating because they had NO concept of equal angles or why you can't cut a shot more than 90 degrees (in fact, they didn't even know what an equal angle or 90-degree was).

With enough practice they could probably become champions. But a little geometry would speed up their progress.

Dr. Dave's stuff is particularly fun (if you like physics), but it doesn't make you a better player.
 
CreeDo said:
Can having a surplus of brains just get in your way?
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Can analytical thinking get in the way? Most definitely!
Does it have to? Absolutely not!

Can analytical think be helpful in pool? Most definitely!
Do you need it in pool? Absolutely not!

Regards,
Dave
 
Having a high IQ is not necessary in pool. Can it help, of course.

Having a creative mind and utilizing both hemisphere's of the brain can be beneficial. Do you think Efren is more creative than other players? This is not the same as being "smart".

However, it is important to have a healthy and functioning brain. One that is "exercised", well-nourished and growing, instead of degenerating, slow and unresponsive. Remember, the brain controls much more than just your reasoning, calculating and inner thoughts (I think these are the things to which most everyone is referring). It controls all of your motor skills. It processes visual information and does spatial calculations. It writes and reads memory. All of these are important in pool.

One of the most difficult things of all is learning how to control your brain. Learning when to have it actively engaged and learning how to turn it off. Turn off the mental chatter, to be more specific. This doesn't require intelligence, to master.

Bottom-line, focus on getting the most from what you have and learn *how* to use it and make it better.

Cheers,
Skippy
 
I agree.......you just never know for sure

thintowin said:
it sounds like u would be surprised if most people did or do both? my, my ...
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When I got into the bar business I was told by a very wise man "don't ever make the mistake of thinking you're the smartest person in the room"....I think this applies to any type of "room" ... even a pool room ;)
 
Creedo,

Have a very good friend. He is vastly more intelligent than I. Loves to play pool. Never really been a "player" but he loves the game more than anyone I know. Once asked me how I aim a shot. Told him "don't know, been playing for over fifty years, just KNOW where to strike the cue ball. He then told me "no wonder you don't know how to play"! Guess he put me in my place :p.

Lyn
 
Paralysis by analysis definately exists. I'd take the word "smart" out the thread title as this can affect almost anyone.

Someone, (I think Tom Watson), once made a statement along the lines that you either have to be mentally strong enough to block out the trouble or too dumb to realise it exists.

We all know totally natural players who do everything by instinct and those who do everything by numbers. Both styles can be effective just as both can be destructive when things are going wrong.
 
dkleather said:
Someone, (I think Tom Watson), once made a statement along the lines that you either have to be mentally strong enough to block out the trouble or too dumb to realise it exists.
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Great quote.

You don't need to know *why* things happen, if you know *how* to make them happen.

Skippy
 
brains and brawn

the truth is your brain learns every time you play you get a ball in and you feel good you miss and you kick yourself . the body remembers the successful strokes. some people have better eye hand coordination and can drill the balls in. Knowledge of the physics game can help you to learn faster. i do not believe you will instinctively learn how to do a throw shot.
i have seen loud arguments with "natural" players when you try to explain to them that their cue ball could not travel 3 inches behind their 3 ball around the table unless they pushed it . knowing the game intellectually can help you see shots that can get you out of a jam. a great example of players who are great and operate on pure fiction would be ray "cool cat" Martin his explanations of ball actions and throw in his book are functionally correct but wrong in theory (ask bob Byrne or bob Jewitt).

i get jealous of guys with natural talent but i admire guys who can figure out something and then execute perfectly .after all its blending all the forces to get a successful outcome thats the interesting and frustrating thing about this grand game
 
onepocketron said:
:smile:Here in Houston there is literally a rocket scientist from NASA that plays a lot. I think it really doesn't matter what type of brain a person has, but over thinking/analyzing things is usually not the best thing when you are over the cue ball fixing to pull the trigger. I could care less about all the physics that go on with the balls and such.....I just want to get safe or put the ball in the pocket when it's my turn. I use the kiss method....keep it simple stupid.
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Here's a man of the same ilk as your rocket scientist, 1-p...
...and he tends to agree with you.

http://sports.inquirer.net/sport/bi...ton-smashing-physicist-crushes-pool-balls-too
 
It's possible for anyone who over thinks or over analyzes anything get left behind. It's those that take action who progress.

Those who are willing to make a mistake and learn from it, trial and error.
 
Analytical and intelligent are not the same thing. Analytical is a personality type, not a measure of IQ. There are just as many people of below or average intelligence that are analytical as there are above average and of genius intelligence levels.

I don't know that analysis in a reasonable dose is necessarily a bad thing. However, if you're going to advance, you have to learn how to play the game. You can learn all the dance steps in the world but until you add "style" to the steps, you're not a dancer. You can have the perfect golf swing but until you learn how to score and lose the fear of going low, you'll never be a pro golfer. Pool is no different. You can be an incredible at pocketing balls. You can understand the game. But to achieve a really high level as a player, you have to learn how to play the game, how to win, against other high level players.
 
CreeDo said:
Don't be offended, I'm not saying all good players are dumb or smart people will never shoot good pool. It's just something that came up with some friends... Sometimes it seems like the guys who don't think much and just drill balls in are the ones who make it to the A ranks, while other guys like me are barely B players, we're only 60% to make a shot longer than six feet, and mostly rely on knowledge.

We all know the guy who is a genius at some physical activity like pool but can't spell "dog" with three hints. At the other ends of the spectrum are the armchair teaching types who know all the physics and obscure quirks and rules but never place in the money at any event people have heard of.

Can having a surplus of brains just get in your way?
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Only if you let it.

The worst sin in pool(and golf, baseball, and tidlywinks) is to "overthink"
what you are doing. Perhaps higher IQ people tend more to commit that
unforgivable sin, but there is no inevitability at work here.

Dale
 
Hi Creedo,

Interesting question. Being an analytical type myself, I think that sometimes it can get in the way. I also think there is a difference between smart and analytical. Over analysis tends to crowd out "common sense"
In the 2 leagues that I play; none of the talented players are rocket-scientists. They are intelligent, just don't hold Ph.D.'s in quantum theory.They don't analyze to the minute detail of what is going to happen on their next shot, they just take the shot.

This makes me think that most players do things by memory and by habit(practice). Perhaps a good proportionate balance between Intelligence and practice is desired.
 
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