Is it Wrong to 3 Foul?

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Coolest 3 Foul I ever witnessed ...

A few years back, Corey Deuel was playing this young Chick (Cassandra ??) at the Reno Open and she pulled a slick 3 foul on him before he saw it coming ... He had a look of total amazement on his face ... Of course, he slammed the door on her right after that embarrassing moment ...

 

[I rack balls]

Hah I 3 fouled a guy in the Lubbock Fast Eddie's tour tournament, it was hill-hill lol. I really love the feeling of 3 fouling someone, you know it hurts them deep inside to push the 8 to 9 balls back to the spot

Eric.A.

 

[RiverCity]

No,i would 3 foul anyone in a tournament,cash,or other.

1-pocket-player, 42NateBaller, 8-Ball Player, ABall, alstl, ARM9BALLER, arsenius, Ballou, BANKONIT, bells, bigskyjake, Black-Balled, Bob Jewett, bud green, cannonball, Catahula, cbi1000, Cheez Dawg, claymont, Cornerman, Craig Fales, CrownCityCorey, cubswin, Cue Freak, Cuebacca, Cuedog, cueman86, Curdog, DaveK, deadstroke89, desert1pocket, despotic931, DoomCue, eastcoast_chris, emptypockets, etimmons, Fast Lenny, Fatboy, fatrascal, Franky, GADawg, gman_tx, grc, Gus, hemicudas, I rack balls, Icon of Sin, instroke75, InTheCloudzzz, Jack Flanagan, jazznpool, jdelcue@emory.e, jdr, Jeffrey Gale, JimS, Joe Koontz, jsp, Jude Rosenstock, jwilliams, Kevin Lindstrom, kirbywine, Kyros, leaguedude, Lun@ticfringe, McChen, mjantti, mszelis, Neil, NeZ, nola22, Oscar_Meyer, Paul Mon, Peer, Pete, PKM, poolplayer1988, PoolSponge, PROG8R, Richm, Rick S., RiverCity, Robertduke, rossaroni, salam4, sde, shinobi, Slider, Snapshot9, sodapopd, SpiderWebComm, Sprite, steev, Steve Lipsky, Stewscue, StormHotRod300, Str8PoolPlayer, Sweet Marissa, td873, thelanz, thoffen, Tim-n-NM, TommyT, TX Poolnut, uwate, UWPoolGod1, vgodley1, vicdotcom, VIProfessor, will8834, Williebetmore, woodyosborne, worriedbeef, Wyrd1951 113 89.68%

Yes,its a chicken $hit way to win.

Adanac67, bigpocket, jimmymac, powderburner, quitecoolguy, supergreenman 6 4.76%

Wouldn't do it to a friend.

Big Perm, godzilla, Jazz, jojopiff, LAMas, Samiel, StunShot 7 5.56%
Voters: 126.

Im betting the ones who said no tend to call safety play "dirty pool" ...... 3 foul is a part of the game and a thing of beauty when played well. Im not advocating trying to do it just for the hell of it...... but it is a reasonable way of winning if other options arent available.
Chuck

 

[PROG8R]

I have seen Gabe Owen get 3 fouled by Efren. Got that on tape. It was Gabe's crazy ass kick selection that got him.
Didn't Corey D. Get 3 fouled in the Mosconi Cup a few years ago?
I recently saw Louis Viera 3 foul a guy at the FL pro 10 ball tournament, that got him up 7-6.
I personally believe that playing a nut tight safety is not very easy. Sure you can put whitey behind a wall of balls, but how many times can you freeze him to the blocking ball taking away almost every angle and forcing them to kick only one directiion?
I have been practicing those shot for close to 7 months or so and I still can't get more than 30 or 40 percent of the time.

 

[Snapshot9]

Times change

and if you don't use the rules to your advantage, other players will.

Many times what motivates players to learn more is a negative experience, and I have to admit I have a slightly 'sadistic' streak in me that enjoys showing an opponent just how much that they 'don't know'. 3 fouling is one way to do that. It says to them, 'See you don't know your rails as good as you thought you did', and in turn, might motivate them to learn to kick better.

You can also do this with 'low percentage leaves' or bank shot leaves, and other ways. It all kind of goes back to the 'You don't know what you don't know' saying .... LOL

 

[jjr183]

I think that while this rule has its place in the game, a good player should try to avoid it. You should be able to create a run-out situation the previous two shots by moving the ball to a place where the problems in the rack are easily dealt with, like next to the problem cluster. Even then, if the stakes are high enough and the rack sits where 3-fouling is the easier course, then set sail. In the end though, the more offensive player will always come out on top more often.

I just don't like it when a player gets ball in hand and tries to 3-foul when they have a fairly easy run-out. A player should always have the confidence to run-out in those situations and trying to 3-foul in that situation either means your timid, lack confidence, or just want to be an ass.

I was the victim of this once. The third foul came after my opponent had ball in hand with an easy run-out and tried to 3-foul me instead. The kick was easy, but I wasn't playing well that day to begin with and missed it.

One exception to this would be if you think that doing it will mess with your opponents head and break his concentration. I know that a lot of players think that Earl Strickland gets upset when he has to do a lot of kicking early in a match and that this causes him to lose focus to the point where it takes a few games for him to get back in gear. Maybe by then, it will be too late even for him.

 

[gregoryg]

3 fouls...

Three fouls is part of the game. I have been beaten by it and I have won with it. Tell your friend that three fouls is part of the game, if he doesn't like it, tell him to pick a different game or learn to kick & jump better.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I remembered some guys (pro tourney players) who tried to 3 foul Efren, they attempted a lot, but Efren manage to escape on everyone of his last attempts. I guess this kinda ticked Reyes and he began jailing them instead of running out. more like an statement games for Reyes. "Don't mess with Houdini".

 

[thrasher789]

Heck naw there isn't anything wrong with it, it's a rule for a reason and it's a legitimate way to win if you have a strong safety game. That said sometimes if I'm playing a freind who is bad and I know won't run out I won't play continual safes because I want him to have fun shooting balls, not desperatly trying to get out of safes everyshot and I know he won't run out if I leave him a shot. BUT in a tournament or money game I don't care who you are, a win is a win and 3 foul is as legit as any other means to the same outcome.

 

[seymore15074]

No way, foul outs are absolutely nessisary. At a local tournament I visit around here, they resently eliminated the 3 foul rule because of someone soft-breaking and trying to foul out everyone...sure perhaps that is anoying or somewhat rediculous...but let me continue... Last week, I played a 4 and the 8 and 9 where tied up...so I fouled repeatedly until it was broke, and I ran out...there is no reason to even try to hit the ball, and risk breaking out a cluster in my favor...now THAT is much more of an a-hole play than trying to at least legitamately foul him out... Think about it.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

If you 3 fouled, that only means you cannot work on the balls or you got limited strategies off your sleeve. in my case, I would open up some clustered balls but not to the extent of selling out completely., but a chance to have a glimpse of an easy kickshot. it's more like a push-out, except that it's not a legal shot.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

No way, foul outs are absolutely nessisary. At a local tournament I visit around here, they resently eliminated the 3 foul rule because of someone soft-breaking and trying to foul out everyone...sure perhaps that is anoying or somewhat rediculous...but let me continue... Last week, I played a 4 and the 8 and 9 where tied up...so I fouled repeatedly until it was broke, and I ran out...there is no reason to even try to hit the ball, and risk breaking out a cluster in my favor...now THAT is much more of an a-hole play than trying to at least legitamately foul him out... Think about it.

in that situation, they could have applied a "no soft breaks allowed" or a "4 balls hitting the rail rule". the 3 foul rule is not the culprit behind it but the tolerance of the soft break.

 

[Williebetmore]

Hey, how about "4-fouling" a guy?

At this years DCC, Buddy Hall and George Breedlove reached hill-hill. The layout had several balls tied up; no chance for a runout. Breedlove plays safe, Buddy can't hit it. Breedlove plays safe again, Buddy can't hit it. Breedlove plays safe a third time, Buddy can't hit it - BUT Breedlove had not pointed out the "3-foul situation" before the third kick, and had to try again. The fourth safety was a killer, Buddy "4-fouls" to lose the match.

Efren was at the next table watching this; and after the last miss, he came over to the table to try the last kick shot (to see if he could succeed where Buddy failed). Efren also failed; though after 4 more tries he finally hit it.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Hey, how about "4-fouling" a guy?

At this years DCC, Buddy Hall and George Breedlove reached hill-hill. The layout had several balls tied up; no chance for a runout. Breedlove plays safe, Buddy can't hit it. Breedlove plays safe again, Buddy can't hit it. Breedlove plays safe a third time, Buddy can't hit it - BUT Breedlove had not pointed out the "3-foul situation" before the third kick, and had to try again. The fourth safety was a killer, Buddy "4-fouls" to lose the match.

Efren was at the next table watching this; and after the last miss, he came over to the table to try the last kick shot (to see if he could succeed where Buddy failed). Efren also failed; though after 4 more tries he finally hit it.

there is no impossible shot for the maestro. he must have used some railed english on that layout. he just love pool puzzles, doesn't he?

 

[aeoliner]

Tell your friend to kick better. If you're playing someone GOOD, winning by 3-fouling is harder than running out - I think. Therefore, it's a well deserved win. If your friend wouldn't have a problem making a 1-9 combo on you, what's the difference - it's part of the game.

IMO combo-ing the nine is a chicken $hit way to win unless money is being played for, OR the combo is EITHER:
1) three or more balls besides the cue ball are involved
or
2) the combo includes a carom
or
3) you are on the 7- or 8-ball thereby meaning you are late in the game.

REMEMBER that is just MY OPINION.

 

[Dead Money]

IMO combo-ing the nine is a chicken $hit way to win unless money is being played for, OR the combo is EITHER:
1) three or more balls besides the cue ball are involved
or
2) the combo includes a carom
or
3) you are on the 7- or 8-ball thereby meaning you are late in the game.

REMEMBER that is just MY OPINION.

Suit yourself. A question though:

If the 9-ball is hanging in the jaws you are going to try and run the rack instead of getting a combo or carom on it? In some cases with a jawed 9 ball in play for example it might be worth it to intentionally foul by making it so it gets respoted.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Efren was at the next table watching this; and after the last miss, he came over to the table to try the last kick shot (to see if he could succeed where Buddy failed). Efren also failed; though after 4 more tries he finally hit it.

I think that any safe that takes Efren five tries to find the right kick angle is pretty safe.

 

[Williebetmore]

I think that any safe that takes Efren five tries to find the right kick angle is pretty safe.

BJ,
It might have been the 4th try that he finally succeeded - he gave a big laugh and smile when he finally hit it. The joy was obvious, and his love of pool is very evident (to spend his free time doing this - between matches at the end of a long week).

Here's another example of his love for the game. Last year at DCC, Friday night at 11 PM, after a whole week of nearly continuous playing, still alive in both one-pocket and 9-ball we went looking for Efren (to cajole him into participating on the spur of the moment in the Celebrity AZB Scotch Doubles). He was already done for the night, but do you know where we found him......in his flip-flops and shorts, drinking a beer, sitting in the spectator area watching the nightly AMATEUR ONE-POCKET EVENT...watching 2 players that could hardly make 3 balls. He seemed to be enjoying the game immensely. He also agreed to play in our event (many thanks to Jeanette Lee for convincing him) - and insisted on going upstairs to change his clothes before playing. A true professional.

 

[breakup]

BJ,
It might have been the 4th try that he finally succeeded - he gave a big laugh and smile when he finally hit it. The joy was obvious, and his love of pool is very evident (to spend his free time doing this - between matches at the end of a long week).

Here's another example of his love for the game. Last year at DCC, Friday night at 11 PM, after a whole week of nearly continuous playing, still alive in both one-pocket and 9-ball we went looking for Efren (to cajole him into participating on the spur of the moment in the Celebrity AZB Scotch Doubles). He was already done for the night, but do you know where we found him......in his flip-flops and shorts, drinking a beer, sitting in the spectator area watching the nightly AMATEUR ONE-POCKET EVENT...watching 2 players that could hardly make 3 balls. He seemed to be enjoying the game immensely. He also agreed to play in our event (many thanks to Jeanette Lee for convincing him) - and insisted on going upstairs to change his clothes before playing. A true professional.

He certainly did exhibit a tremendous love of the game to agree to play with that knuckle dragger for a partner he got stuck with.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I think that while this rule has its place in the game, a good player should try to avoid it. You should be able to create a run-out situation the previous two shots by moving the ball to a place where the problems in the rack are easily dealt with, like next to the problem cluster. Even then, if the stakes are high enough and the rack sits where 3-fouling is the easier course, then set sail. In the end though, the more offensive player will always come out on top more often.

I just don't like it when a player gets ball in hand and tries to 3-foul when they have a fairly easy run-out. A player should always have the confidence to run-out in those situations and trying to 3-foul in that situation either means your timid, lack confidence, or just want to be an ass.

I was the victim of this once. The third foul came after my opponent had ball in hand with an easy run-out and tried to 3-foul me instead. The kick was easy, but I wasn't playing well that day to begin with and missed it.

One exception to this would be if you think that doing it will mess with your opponents head and break his concentration. I know that a lot of players think that Earl Strickland gets upset when he has to do a lot of kicking early in a match and that this causes him to lose focus to the point where it takes a few games for him to get back in gear. Maybe by then, it will be too late even for him.

The tenor of this post is very whiney.

I look at it like this.. If I am playing a GOOD player, then I HOPE they try to 3 foul me instead of trying to run out.

If they are a BAD player, then who cares what they do? They are still going to lose.

I just really don't get where the negativity in respect to the 3 foul rule comes from. If you lost by 3 fouls to an inferior player, then you probably are not good at kicking. Deal with it. Practice kicking.

You talk a lot about how a player "should" do this, and "should" do that. Says who? Says you? Are you a world beater?

There have been a lot of times I play extra safes during the beginning of a matchup or match, for the sole reason of gaining a feel for the speed of the table and ball action. Does that mean I am not playing "right"? No, it means that I am playing my game. If that's good enough to beat my opponent, I win. If it's not, I lose.

"Should" has nothing to do with it.

Russ