Is Josh Filler the World's Best Pool Player?

...Shane's record in WPA play is especially forgettable, which means he doesn't get to the finish line in the events in which the stars from all over the world are present. By the way, with thanks to Matchroom, the US Open is, arguably, now such an event, but this year was probably the first in which all the stars of Asia showed up. It was always a tough event to win, but was historically easier than winning WPA events that had 128 players and far greater international diversity in their fields. ...

The fields in 2016 and 2017 for the US Open 9-Ball events may have been just as strong (stronger?) than the fields for the WPA World 9-Ball events. Here's a post from Mike Page showing the strength of the 2017 field: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5999268&postcount=8

[Shane won the 2016 US Open 9B.]

edit -- and even though Shane didn't win, we probably shouldn't rank his consecutive 2nd-place finishes in the World 9B in 2015 and 2016 as forgettable.
 
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The fields in 2016 and 2017 for the US Open 9-Ball events may have been just as strong (stronger?) than the fields for the WPA World 9-Ball events. Here's a post from Mike Page showing the strength of the 2017 field: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5999268&postcount=8

[Shane won the 2016 US Open 9B.]

edit -- and even though Shane didn't win, we probably shouldn't rank his consecutive 2nd-place finishes in the World 9B in 2015 and 2016 as forgettable.

You're right, of course. Shane's WPA results are only forgettable by the kind of standards that apply when comparing the all-time greats. For all other players, these results would more than suffice.
 
Stu, I love where pro pool is at right now, and it looks like there will be more to come. Promoters are beginning to see the value in the game (streaming) and that bodes well for the future. I am also excited about the great young players who are challenging the old guard right now and Filler is certainly at the top of the list. (Kaci was last year and Shaw was the 9-Ball king for a couple of years as well). IMO there are still at least 10-15 players who are near equals, and all are capable of winning any major event. That list will probably grow as well in the near future.

Sadly, I have seen Jon Kucharo come from nowhere (Bettendorf, Iowa) to contend and beat the best players in the world by the age of 20. By age 22 he was washed up, a victim of his own success. Many years ago, there was a teenager named Mark Beilfuss from Michigan that beat all the great 14.1 players that came through playing exhibitions. At 17, he may have been the closest to Mizerak there was. He was out of pool before he hit 20. Michael Coltrain was another great young player sidelined just as he was entering his prime in his mid 20's. There have been others (Chan Witt) and the kid from California who died to young to fulfill their destiny.

Once Johnny Archer quit being a bridesmaid, he seemed to win everything, starting at age 21. Of course, his career continued throughout the 90's with his being named the player of the decade. He was still in his 20's in 1999-2000. So, we have seen other prodigies, but none of them won back to back majors against elite fields like Filler has done. IMO he should have won this one too, but had a lapse in the final match. It was definitely not his best performance.

Kucharo was not on this level. I saw him play many times when he was 20, as well. Yes, he had the best break at one point, but his competitive track record even then wasn't first tier. Neither Chan Whitt nor Mike Coltrian ever reached this level, either, although they had sad endings to very promising futures.

I don't think Kaci has ever been one of the world's ten best players. I'd put him around 15th.

I'm not familiar with Beilfuss, although his name is one I've heard before.

Appleton, who first found his top form in his early 30's by winning the 2008 WPA World 10-ball title, is similarly irrelevant. Not an early bloomer, and his best year, 2012, came at the age of 36. Yes, he has fallen off in his 40's, but his stay at or near the top lasted quite a while.

Immonen, who emerged at age 28 when he won the 2001 WPA World Championship was not as early a bloomer as Filler, but he's a good example of how hard it is to stay at the top. He regained his top form in 2009 in his mid-30's, but just like Appleton, he has fallen off in his 40's.

Shaw was an early bloomer, a world beater by age 25, but he wasn't really winning premier events until his late 20's. He was among the three best for a while, and he is still a monster. He played great in the World 10-ball Championship, even in his 10-8 loss to Filler in Stage 2. He remains a top five in the Fargo rankings, so if he's fallen, it hasn't been far.

The best comparison here is Archer, who was a spectacular player in his early twenties but first found his very top form when he won the 1992 World Championship at age 24 and went on to be player of the decade. By the way, he was 31 in 1999/2000.

I'm still looking hard for a player whose career began with such a bang as Filler's and I just can't find one, although Archer comes closest. Of course, Josh won't mass produce major titles consistently, and neither did most of the members of the BCA Hall of Fame, but his resume is awfully strong for such a young player, and he has a chance to be one of the greatest ever players.

Like you, though, I think pool is in an exciting place right now, and I'm more inclined to dwell on that than anything else. Let the good times roll. Who's the best? Now, it's Filler, but as you correctly point out, few stay on top for long, so let's just sit back and enjoy the show. Whatever happens, there should be plenty of drama with four majors a year on American soil (International 9-ball, WPA Players Championship, US Open 9-ball, World 10-ball). It's almost too good to be true, my friend.
 
I'm still looking hard for a player whose career began with such a bang as Filler's and I just can't find one, although Archer comes closest.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Wu, who won two world titles in 2005 at the ripe old age of 16.
 
The Ronnie O'Sullivan of pool? That's exactly what Ralf Souquet said about him. And coming from RS that's huge.mind you he's German...but still!

Great minds think alike. What can I say! :grin-square:
 
There is a constant tension between the pool purists and others in the pool world. Pool purists prefer robotic emotionless robots competing in pool, never uttering a word.

Then there's the others in pool who enjoy players who aren't afraid to show emotion. This is exactly why Joshua Filler is attractive to many virtual railbirds. He's colorful and fun.

This is why the Mosconi Cup is the best pool event, or at least has been, for all professional players.

Jayson Shaw haters ragged on him for showing his emotion during the Cup. I loved it and thought it was cool.

Billy Thorpe wasn't afraid to show his emotion when competing, and I love him for it.

Pool needs this. To those who don't like FIller because he showed emotion, well, go back in your corner and enjoy pool from afar while the rest of us are in the center stage enjoying the growth pool is making in recent times, thanks to players like Filler, Shaw, Thorpe, and Alex. Pool needs more of this.

Bye-bye, pool purists. There's a new dawn a coming the pool world, THANK GOD!
 
There is a constant tension between the pool purists and others in the pool world. Pool purists prefer robotic emotionless robots competing in pool, never uttering a word.

Then there's the others in pool who enjoy players who aren't afraid to show emotion. This is exactly why Joshua Filler is attractive to many virtual railbirds. He's colorful and fun.

This is why the Mosconi Cup is the best pool event, or at least has been, for all professional players.

Jayson Shaw haters ragged on him for showing his emotion during the Cup. I loved it and thought it was cool.

Billy Thorpe wasn't afraid to show his emotion when competing, and I love him for it.

Pool needs this. To those who don't like FIller because he showed emotion, well, go back in your corner and enjoy pool from afar while the rest of us are in the center stage enjoying the growth pool is making in recent times, thanks to players like Filler, Shaw, Thorpe, and Alex. Pool needs more of this.

Bye-bye, pool purists. There's a new dawn a coming the pool world, THANK GOD!


Who here has said anything negative about Filler showing his emotion?
 
The fields in 2016 and 2017 for the US Open 9-Ball events may have been just as strong (stronger?) than the fields for the WPA World 9-Ball events. Here's a post from Mike Page showing the strength of the 2017 field: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5999268&postcount=8

[Shane won the 2016 US Open 9B.]

edit -- and even though Shane didn't win, we probably shouldn't rank his consecutive 2nd-place finishes in the World 9B in 2015 and 2016 as forgettable.

Plus his back to back wins in the World Pool Masters against elite fields of top players.
 
I'm surprised you didn't mention Wu, who won two world titles in 2005 at the ripe old age of 16.

Good call. I'm also surprised I didn't think of Wu, although the Wu story is certainly one of a kind in terms of how it developed.

Wu saw instant success early in his career, even earlier than Filler, but it can hardly be suggested his game fell off a cliff. It would be closer to the truth to say he disappeared, very sporadically competing in the mainstream events worldwide, not sufficiently committed to his profession to sustain his highest possible level of excellence. Citizenship issues, bad health, military obligation issues, visa issues and other problems all ganged up on him in, thereby reducing his opportunities to participate as often as he needed to. As we saw at the US Open this April, the 30 year old Wu has found his game again, getting all the way to the final before losing to Filler .... but his sporadic participation is in play yet again as he skipped the World 10-ball Championships. Wu remains an unprecedented anomaly.

It's not impossible that this sort of thing, in some form or other, could happen to Filler, but Josh is an extreme example of somebody truly committed to his trade. He plays the full Eurotour, all the major events in America, all the Matchroom events, all the WPA sanctioned events, and he's a known workaholic in the practice room. Of the Europeans, Souquet, of course, has done this for the length of his career, and Feijen also, but to a lesser extent. Josh has some very good influences in whose tracks he's walking, but he's beyond Souquet and Feijen in the amount he plays because he's also a very frequent action player, one who doesn't duck even the elite players. In terms of work ethic and commitment to his trade, I think we're looking at this generation's version of SVB.

Filler's game may fall, and his career could end at a moment's notice, but I think his talent and work ethic make it far more likely he'll be one of the stars of pool for a long, long time. He has a firm foundation in life, too, and that can only help him. It's nice to see the way in which he and his wife are so supportive of one another.

As JAM points out, far too many hate on Josh Filler because he's cocky, proud, animated and exuberant, but he's a breath of fresh air in our game and I hope we can get a few more to show the kind of enthusiasm and emotion that we get from Filler, because pool needs it badly.
 
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I’m drawing a blank... which tournament was the WPA player’s championship? Was that the finale to Appleton’s tour?
 
If you took away the jump cue, Joshua’s kicking would improve greatly...
...in about four minutes.

I have to disagree. He was up 5-3 on Ko until he lost a safety battle when he went to the jump cue instead of kicking safe and left Ko a shot. At 5-4 he played a terrible safe on the 1 ball. 5-3 became 5-5 with Ko breaking.

There is no better in the world at pocketing balls but kicking and safety play are a weakness. He is dependent on the jump cue.

Not saying he isn't a great player but he does have a weakness.
 
There is a constant tension between the pool purists and others in the pool world. Pool purists prefer robotic emotionless robots competing in pool, never uttering a word.

Then there's the others in pool who enjoy players who aren't afraid to show emotion. This is exactly why Joshua Filler is attractive to many virtual railbirds. He's colorful and fun.

This is why the Mosconi Cup is the best pool event, or at least has been, for all professional players.

Jayson Shaw haters ragged on him for showing his emotion during the Cup. I loved it and thought it was cool.

Billy Thorpe wasn't afraid to show his emotion when competing, and I love him for it.

Pool needs this. To those who don't like FIller because he showed emotion, well, go back in your corner and enjoy pool from afar while the rest of us are in the center stage enjoying the growth pool is making in recent times, thanks to players like Filler, Shaw, Thorpe, and Alex. Pool needs more of this.

Bye-bye, pool purists. There's a new dawn a coming the pool world, THANK GOD!

Above all, I love seeing pool played at its highest level, but an occasional and sincere outburst of emotion, definitely adds to the excitement of any event.

To me, the theatrics at the Mosconi Cup are a little too much for me personally, but I know going in that that is what that event was designed and set up to be. So I can still watch it and enjoy it.



_______
 
Plus his back to back wins in the World Pool Masters against elite fields of top players.

Good to mention those. They were WPA events with "stars from all over the world ..." (stu's criterion). But the field was just 16 players when Shane won those events; he played only 4 races to 8 to win each one. But win he did.
 
No, this is a new WPA sanctioned event that debuted in 2019, and won by Kevin Cheng, who topped Carlo Biado in the final. It was played in Las Vegas in early April.

Here's a link. You'll see that this event had a field of world beaters.

https://www.azbilliards.com/tours_a...s/8685-2019-wpa-players-championship/results/

Thank you. I remember now, it was at Griff's room and a week before the new US Open. The calendar is filling out nicely! I kind of wonder if the lull we experienced in the past 10 years was more general economy related than pool related.
 
There is a constant tension between the pool purists and others in the pool world. Pool purists prefer robotic emotionless robots competing in pool, never uttering a word.

Then there's the others in pool who enjoy players who aren't afraid to show emotion. This is exactly why Joshua Filler is attractive to many virtual railbirds. He's colorful and fun.

This is why the Mosconi Cup is the best pool event, or at least has been, for all professional players.

Jayson Shaw haters ragged on him for showing his emotion during the Cup. I loved it and thought it was cool.

Billy Thorpe wasn't afraid to show his emotion when competing, and I love him for it.

Pool needs this. To those who don't like FIller because he showed emotion, well, go back in your corner and enjoy pool from afar while the rest of us are in the center stage enjoying the growth pool is making in recent times, thanks to players like Filler, Shaw, Thorpe, and Alex. Pool needs more of this.

Bye-bye, pool purists. There's a new dawn a coming the pool world, THANK GOD!

Darn right, JAM! These new young animated players are a breath of fresh air in our sport. I love watching them.

You're right about the Mosconi Cup, too, where the players and fans are wildly passionate and demonstrative. I love how the European fans sing together at the Mosconi Cup. Of course, that tends to happen at any major international sporting event over there, and so what if they occasionally overdo it. American fans at the Mosconi continue to become more animated, and I think it's just great.

More of the same, please.
 
I have to disagree. He was up 5-3 on Ko until he lost a safety battle when he went to the jump cue instead of kicking safe and left Ko a shot. At 5-4 he played a terrible safe on the 1 ball. 5-3 became 5-5 with Ko breaking.

There is no better in the world at pocketing balls but kicking and safety play are a weakness. He is dependent on the jump cue.

Not saying he isn't a great player but he does have a weakness.

i agree. he only has an above average safety game but when coupled with his shotmaking and fearlessness its usually more than enough to overcome most. Little Ko is like a more balanced version of Filler. but Filler's formula also applies a lot of pressure on the opponent, which really can throw ppl off their game and forces mistakes
 
I think I read somewhere Filler has runs in the 300s in straight pool?

It would be cool to see him become a one pocket champion like Efren.
 
Actually it would be fun if there was a few WPA one pocket events. You’d see the TOP players figure out the game.

For all the years of us saying the WPA doesn’t do much for pool, they do assemble the strongest fields. No one can deny that.
 
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