Is Mike Sigel the best ever?

[raybo147]

This has been a great thread to read, thanks guys. We used to always have these discussions about snooker players and it always came down to who was the best player in each era. We never had some of the players involved taking part though! Very cool. I am Irish and have no idea who is the best.

 

[Blackjack]

Okay, so now only Earl and Ray are in doubt. At least in my mind. I've known Ray forever, and this is the first time I heard he ran a 400.

I'll call him tomorrow to verify, but I thought his high run was 300 and something -

also add Alain Martel to the list with a 408.

 

[AZE]

Best 9-ball, Efren
Best 8-ball, Efren
Best 1Pocket, Efren
Best Rotation, Efren

14.1 I mean my vote goes to BlackJack, but how else am I going to get a deal on lessons?

Banks? IDK...

Bottom line, if you were to do an all around of all games in pool with all of the best players, Efren would win it, and BlackJack would come in a strong second.

 

[hemicudas]

Add also Ray Martin with a 426. That makes

Schmidt
Hopkins
Engert
Martin
Strickland
West
Hohmann

What is all-telling here is the absence of Mike Sigel.

 

[Fixer]

Mr Jewett: I totally agree about the org. However many old records are in doubt. Who knows how high Sotomayor has jumped? I mean in training.

(I bet Lewis would kick Beamons as* in cash-games. ); )

 

[Fixer]

AZE: Nice list, but best 9-ball what?

Tourney, cash or combined? Earl has 11 majors.

Efren IS however the man, but not in 9-ball alone. (Break, jump etc)

Btw if it will help ypu I say BlackJack too.

 

[Blackjack]

Bottom line, if you were to do an all around of all games in pool with all of the best players, Efren would win it, and BlackJack would come in a strong second.

Yeah, I'd come in second if only Efren and I showed up... lol

 

[Terry Ardeno]

What is all-telling here is the absence of Mike Sigel.

Bill,
Mike's HR in 14.1 is 339.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Don't. I was just quoting the numbers posted on another thread on AZB. Maybe Ray would like to give us an update himself.

It would be nice if pool had an organization that kept records.

OK.
I keep my own stats on all the players. Until I hear different, I'll stick with the 382 that I had last on Martin.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I know about the tournaments. What I was referring to was the gambling aspect. I think I have only ever heard of two stories about him gambling.

He was a great tournament player, but how did he cut it in 'the back room'??

Hubert "Daddy Warbucks" Cokes was his "manager-backer" when he got out of Purdue University. That's when Nick earned the nickname "little gorilla", for his tenacity when matching up. Tons of heart.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Irving Crane's longevity

Not sure which game you are talking about but during the recent IPT 14.1 match between Ortmann and Schmidt, Sigel said Irving Crane was the best 14.1 player ever because of his longevity at the top of the game.

alsti,
Here's something I posted on another thread about Crane's longevity...

Irving Crane won his 1st World 14.1 Championship in 1942! He was runner-up in 1937 & 1941 before he won his 6 World 14.1 Championships (1942-1946-1955-1968-1970-1972)! In other words, Irving Crane won WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS in 4 different decades and was competing in World 14.1 Championships in 6 decades (1930's - 1980's). The only other player to have ever won World Championships in pocket billiards over 4 different decades was Alfredo DeOro.
To properly put his greatness into perspective.....John Schmidt won his 14.1 World Championship in 2003. Oliver Ortmann won it in 2007. To have the consistancy and longevity that Irving Crane had, both of them must still be winning World Championships into the 2030's, when John will be in his 60's and Oliver in his 70's!
One more thing...Crane had as his contemporaries Ralph Greenleaf, Frank Taberski, Jimmy Caras, Erwin Rudolph, Willie Mosconi, Joe Balsis, Luther Lassiter, Cicero Murphy, Ed Kelly, Dallas West and Ray Martin, among others. These are only the 14.1 specialists, it doesn't count all the 9 ball greats who also entered some of the later championships.
Today, the 14.1 specialists consist of the elite John Schmidt, Oliver Ortmann, Ralf Souquet, Thomas Engert, Danny Harriman, Min Wai Chin and Thorsten Hohmann. Most of the others who enter the recently revived 14.1 World Championships are fledgling straight pool players.


Plus, Crane was Sigel's mentor back in Rochester. Sigel has always shown much respect towards Irving Crane. Danny DiLiberto is another top 14.1 player who Crane taught a lot.

 

[jimmyg]

Add also Ray Martin with a 426. That makes

Schmidt
Hopkins
Engert
Martin
Strickland
West
Hohmann

Posted a while back. Jim

Quote:
Mr441
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Official 14.1 High Runs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's a crying shame that you can't even find an official or unofficial list of the top 14.1 runs of all time. Imagine not being able to find the top career home run leaders compiled? I figure we should try and compile at least an unofficial list here on this forum. I've listed below the best runs I've ever heard of, they're only runs I've heard from at least one reputable source, but some of the runs are more commonly known.

1- 625 Michael Eufemia (4 x 8 table?) 2- 526 Willie Mosconi (4 x 8 table)
3- 491 Thomas Engert
4- 430 Gene Nagy
5- 429 Dallas West
6- 426 Ray Martin
7- 421 Allen Hopkins
8- 408 Thorsten Hohmann
9- 408 Earl Strickland
10- 403 John Schmidt
11- 396 Jose Garcia

Anyone want to add to the list? Any German posters here? Surely Souquet or Ortmann have impressive runs.Quote

 

[Blackjack]

Posted a while back. Jim

Quote:
Mr441
Registered User

Status: Offline
Posts: 42
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Fantasia
vCash: 500
iTrader: (0)

Official 14.1 High Runs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's a crying shame that you can't even find an official or unofficial list of the top 14.1 runs of all time. Imagine not being able to find the top career home run leaders compiled? I figure we should try and compile at least an unofficial list here on this forum. I've listed below the best runs I've ever heard of, they're only runs I've heard from at least one reputable source, but some of the runs are more commonly known.

1- 625 Michael Eufemia (4 x 8 table?) 2- 526 Willie Mosconi (4 x 8 table)
3- 491 Thomas Engert
4- 430 Gene Nagy
5- 429 Dallas West
6- 426 Ray Martin
7- 421 Allen Hopkins
8- 408 Thorsten Hohmann
9- 408 Earl Strickland
10- 403 John Schmidt
11- 396 Jose Garcia

Anyone want to add to the list? Any German posters here? Surely Souquet or Ortmann have impressive runs.Quote

Here is a link that has several high runs posted -

Straight Pool High Runs

 

[branpureza]

Here is a link that has several high runs posted -

Straight Pool High Runs

Wimpy should be in the 200s somewhere...

might have even broke 300, i dunno

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Anyone want to add to the list? Any German posters here? Surely Souquet or Ortmann have impressive runs.Quote

Oliver Ortmann's HR is 326.
Ralf Souquet's is 285.


Does anyone have Bennie Allen's all time high run? He's been the hardest one for me to find.

Also, strange enough, Lassiter's HR is all but unknown. Far as I can tell, even though he won 4 World 14.1 Championships, 5 Johnston City 14.1 Championships, plus the 1969 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship, NOBODY knows what is all time high run is in 14.1. Which is a shame. I contacted so many of his contemporaries, some of his family, his neighbors, even the Pastor who conducted his funeral to get more information on him and NOBODY has any idea of his HR. It also has never been printed in any of the pool publications that covered Lassiter. His first love was 9 ball, and he only played 14.1 and one pocket "because he had to" in the tournaments.

 

[watchez]

Louie was up there too. And I know I will be argued with but he always claimed when Mosconi ran his great run, he actually hung a ball in the 400s but the crowd 'gave it to him' and he kept going. He is the only one that I ever heard tell that story so I didn't give it much authority. I think the reason for the story was Louie said himself he had a run in the 400s but I can't remember what it was but his number was higher when he states Mosconi supposedly hung the ball so Louie would claim he had the record. No one argued with Louie cause no one really cared.

 

[branpureza]

Also, strange enough, Lassiter's HR is all but unknown. Far as I can tell, even though he won 4 World 14.1 Championships, 5 Johnston City 14.1 Championships, plus the 1969 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship, NOBODY knows what is all time high run is in 14.1. Which is a shame. I contacted so many of his contemporaries, some of his family, his neighbors, even the Pastor who conducted his funeral to get more information on him and NOBODY has any idea of his HR. It also has never been printed in any of the pool publications that covered Lassiter. His first love was 9 ball, and he only played 14.1 and one pocket "because he had to" in the tournaments.

Yeah, I've never heard of a high run for Wimpy either but I know he broke 200-250 several times.... Never heard anything about 300s though.

 

[watchez]

I didn't know Dennis Hatch had such a high run. Let's get him up there for the all around challenge. I love to watch him play.

 

[jimmyg]

Oliver Ortmann's HR is 326.
Ralf Souquet's is 285.


Does anyone have Bennie Allen's all time high run? He's been the hardest one for me to find.

Also, strange enough, Lassiter's HR is all but unknown. Far as I can tell, even though he won 4 World 14.1 Championships, 5 Johnston City 14.1 Championships, plus the 1969 U.S. Open 14.1 Championship, NOBODY knows what is all time high run is in 14.1. Which is a shame. I contacted so many of his contemporaries, some of his family, his neighbors, even the Pastor who conducted his funeral to get more information on him and NOBODY has any idea of his HR. It also has never been printed in any of the pool publications that covered Lassiter. His first love was 9 ball, and he only played 14.1 and one pocket "because he had to" in the tournaments.

Terry, if you're sure about Ralf's you may want to contact the oerson that put together the list at this link. Maybe you two can exchange some info.

Jim

Link:http://hermund.ardalen.com/straightpoolhighruns.htm

STRAIGHT POOL HIGH RUNS

High Runs For The Men

600 Plus
PLAYER HIGH RUN

Arthur Babe Cranfield 768 in practice
Tom Parker 642 as told to Dick Leonard
Michael Eufemia 626
No one saw the run from beginning to end, except for Eufemia himself. According to Billiards Digest historian Mike Shamos, this is one of the reasons his record has never been granted official status.


500 Plus
Willie Mosconi 526
Min-Wai Chin 500+

400 Plus
Thomas Engert 492
Gene Nagy 430
Dallas West 429
Ray Martin 426
Allen Hopkins 421
Thorsten Hohmann 408
Earl Strickland 408
Alain Martel 408
John Schmidt 400
300 Plus
Jose Garcia 396
Jack Colavita 385
Johnny Ervolino 361
Dennis Hatch 360
Klaus Zobreskis 356
Sailor Barge 356
George Mecula 336
Grady Mathews 327
Dick Leonard 326
Werner Duregger 326
Oliver Ortmann 326
Steve Mizerak 321
Pete Fusco 321
Mike Sigel 319
Irving Crane 309
Danny Di Liberto 308
Pan Ande 306
200 Plus
Joe Canton 287
Ralph Greenleaf 287
Dan Barouty 287
Alex Lely 272
Daryl Peach 273
Mika Immonen 267
Vegar Kristansen 267
Tony Robles 267
Cisero Murphy 262
Vilmos Foldes 259
Neils Feijen 259
Nick Van Den Berg 258
Andy Toth 256
George Ginky SanSouci 252
Bobby Hunter 225
Mike Massey 224
Don Willis 216
Kevin Becker 216
David Sapolis 212
Cetin Aslin 207
Johnny Archer 200
Bob Maidhof ?
Jimmy Fusco ?


100 Plus
Pete Margo 198
Tom Fryer 188
Jimmy Gottier 184
Joe Procita 182
Steve Lipsky 177
John Kucharo 156

High Runs for The Ladies

PLAYER HIGH RUN

100 Plus
Jennifer Chen 158
Jeanette Lee 152
Jeannie Balukas 134
Ruth McGinnis 126
Jasmin Ouschan 120
Line Kvoersvik 116



I NEED THESE AND ANY MORE
Lori Jon Jones ?
Ewa Mataya Laurence ?
Helena Thornfelt ?
Allison Fisher ?
Gerda Hofstatter ?
Know of any more or have a correction e-mail me

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Here is a link that has several high runs posted -

Straight Pool High Runs

Blackjack,
I don't know whose list that is, but there are so many errors in it, I don't know where to start.

Irving Cranes is 359, not 309. (He was the first to run over 300, thus the 309, but he bettered that several times, topping off at 359.

Mizerak's is 421, not the listed 321.

Sigel's is 339, not 319.

Colavita's is 375, not 385.

Pete Margo's is 330, not 198.

I also had Jose Garcia at 332, not 396.

Jimmy Fusco's is listed as ????. It's 216.

Cranfield's seems to go up every time it's mentioned. The verifiable number is 423.

As for the 300+ list, it has no mention of Varner at 337, Balsis at 344, Lisciotti at 370 or Jim Rempe at 340.

The numbers I get are verified either in writing or by the player himself. The only exception to that rule of mine is when I get a number from another trustworthy pool historian, such as Tom Shaw, Charlie Ursitti, etc.