Is Now the right time to open a pool hall

boogieman said:
I'll add a bit more to the negative side. I'm an "elder millennial," meaning I'm 41 years old. People my age grew up before the internet, when you came home when the street lights came on, etc. As a blanket statement, people my age or younger don't care much about socializing. If we do, there is online. If we want competition, we will play the newest and greatest online game. More competition there and you can play in your underwear. The world is shit, we've lived through countless recessions, terrorists, shootings, "pandemics" etc. The world is shit out there and nobody wants much of it. We've all worked retail as there aren't any real jobs left and it adds to the hatred of people. People are shit. A person can be great, but overall I'm not a fan of people or groups. It would be disrespectful and naive to call it retail PTSD, but trust me, you want nothing to do with the public.

I'm a bit different from the elder part. The American dream was sort of possible. I can't complain. Have a house and a pool table. Many 30 year olds are still living at home. No future. No jobs, no money, no affordable housing. It can be done, but good luck with the upbringing and brainwashing consumed on a daily basis.

We are entertained by a rectangle we carry around everywhere (I can hardly stand the things). Go out to a pool hall? Why? I can download 20 apps on my phone for free that I can play pool with real competitive players around the world. It's cheaper too.

I'm a little bit different due to having much older siblings and being brought up by parents with a parenting style a couple decades older than my contemporaries. The world out there (and mostly people) has become garbage through a constant bombardment of advertising, propaganda, a place where your thoughts are bought and sold by an algorithm. Instant gratification and a self centered society. "F" all of that, I'd rather set up a table in my basement and play with friends. Bars are where losers hang out (I don't believe this, but ask anyone under 40 once they are over 24 years old). If I want to drink, I can get a bottle for the cost of 4 shots at a cheap place. I have a big screen TV hooked to the internet and can watch anything I want on demand, even Dr. Dave videos while I'm at the table! I have video game systems from my childhood, arcade games, board games, cards, etc. Much to do there with friends, and if one of them is a smoker, I just open the basement window and turn on the fan.

So why go out at all? Boredom and seeking companionship or competition. You can meet friends, better folks playing pool than many places. At least more interesting.

But what's the market for a pool hall? Pool players are a niche market. Bars aren't for everybody. Everybody eats, but running a kitchen isn't an easy job if you want to do it right. Entertainment is cheap or free everywhere, what's the draw of a pool hall? Did kids play it in gym class and get a love for the game? Nope. Your best bet is someone had a table growing up or got interested in pool for some other reason, maybe seeing some highlight shots on a YouTube video. Pretty sketchy market future. I hope not, but the signs aren't great for a bright future. You have to make it a thing that people can get tik tok likes. Gotta have a backdrop for the instagram "models" to get the clicks. That's the younger (under 30) crowd. It's all about clout and bragging, even if it's not done for manipulative reasons. Those "upvotes" are a real serotonin booster. The system is rigged and designed that way. Young folks want glitz and glamor. They can't really ever have a piece of the "good life" (in quotes) so they want a place they can feel like a baller for a night.

If the local market supports it, I see a real path would be to have a billiards club, scanners at the door, cameras, open 24/7. Monthly or yearly fee. There, that's a place to play pool with nice tables. It's dicey but it could work in the right place. Membership only by being sponsored by a current member (who can lose membership if an issue arises) or by actually getting to know the applicant a bit.

You could have an open tournament for potential members or the public held a couple times a year if you need to drum up business. People want spaces with good equipment that aren't packed with other people.
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You hit the nail on the head. Not all of the old guys in here are idiots, but they are still in the world of the 70s 80s and 90s , 2020s is a different ball game .
Anything can or might work, in a given situation, but the standard for business success has changed.
 
chefjeff said:
Then the govt baseball diamonds, the soccer fields, football stadia worth literally $10s of million, skateboard parks, swimming pools, even race tracks, and more I can't think of right now. When the Iowa racetrack was built, the little town forked over $15 million for the damn road to the place!

But pool?? Omg, someone (who has power now---yikes!) got hustled in college so all pool halls are bad. Govt "science."


Jeff Livingston
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You talking about Iowa Speedway in Newton? That place has bled money since it opened. Nascar bought it and leased it to R. Penske last year.
 
Fatboy said:
In Archers new room pool time is a single digit number or % of total sales. In other words he could remove all the pool tables and still have a solid business.
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I don't know if that's an accurate assessment. I shot about 8 games the other night at the bar. If I paid for half of those games, that's $4. I spent $16 at the bar. Okay, maybe those numbers say more than I thought. Still, pool tables are part of the ambiance and if they were gone the overall sales may suffer.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I don't know if that's an accurate assessment. I shot about 8 games the other night at the bar. If I paid for half of those games, that's $4. I spent $16 at the bar. Okay, maybe those numbers say more than I thought. Still, pool tables are part of the ambiance and if they were gone the overall sales may suffer.
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I talk to Johnny every day. I know what his sales are daily and the breakdown for each dept. Food, bar, machines, pool,etc.

So it’s not a assessment it’s just math.

I can’t disclose how much they are doing daily or precisely what % of the income is each specific department. But pool is a single digit number of total revenue. I’m not guessing about this. I know the numbers 100% accurately. Part of the reason is there isn’t many tables. That will change in time as well. But not to the extent he’s gonna smash in so many box’s it’s not comfortable to play.

The good news is biz has been much better than expected and is still growing. Monday & Tuesday’s are the worst, there are things coming to pump up those nights over the next couple months.

Johnnys idea was to create a atmosphere that people would enjoy, and he nailed it. The numbers prove that. There’s been a few bumps in the road, but overall very few growing pains along the way.

Best
Fatboy 😀
 
garczar said:
You talking about Iowa Speedway in Newton? That place has bled money since it opened. Nascar bought it and leased it to R. Penske last year.
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Yep. My folks lived next door to guy who pretty much made it happen. He passed away a couple of years ago.

It sits there, empty, empty, and again, empty.

Beautiful place, though.


Jeff Livingston
 
Fatboy said:
I talk to Johnny every day. I know what his sales are daily and the breakdown for each dept. Food, bar, machines, pool,etc.

So it’s not a assessment it’s just math.

I can’t disclose how much they are doing daily or precisely what % of the income is each specific department. But pool is a single digit number of total revenue. I’m not guessing about this. I know the numbers 100% accurately. Part of the reason is there isn’t many tables. That will change in time as well. But not to the extent he’s gonna smash in so many box’s it’s not comfortable to play.

The good news is biz has been much better than expected and is still growing. Monday & Tuesday’s are the worst, there are things coming to pump up those nights over the next couple months.

Johnnys idea was to create a atmosphere that people would enjoy, and he nailed it. The numbers prove that. There’s been a few bumps in the road, but overall very few growing pains along the way.

Best
Fatboy 😀
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Does he have a website for the place that we can see it?


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Does he have a website for the place that we can see it?


Jeff Livingston
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There ain’t even a sign up yet, it’s crazy how it’s doing for a “soft” opening.

There might be something on FB, I’ve never looked at FB so I’m not sure. Would seem with the biz they are doing that it’s appeared there.

The plan was a “soft” opening. After 4-5 days it’s been full blast. Very few problems and great customers. Very few crackheads or water drinkers. The location helped cut back on the problem people and good management-Johnny & Rodney. The customers are spenders.

Couldn’t ask for a better customer base. The vibe is great too. Johnny opens up FaceTime and sets the phone on the bar-I just watch and listen. I don’t have a penny’s interest in this biz, but if I did oh boy would I be happy. They booked a huge winner. People having fun, spending money, really doesn’t get much better.

Best
Fatboy
 
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Fatboy said:
There ain’t even a sign up yet, it’s crazy how it’s doing for a “soft” opening.

There might be something on FB, I’ve never owned FB so I’m not sure. Would seem with the biz they are doing that it’s appeared there.

The plan was a “soft” opening. After 4-5 days it’s been full blast. Very few problems and great customers. Very few crackheads or water drinkers. The location helped cut back on the problem people and good management-Johnny & Rodney. The customers are spenders.

Couldn’t ask for a better customer base. The vibe is great too. Johnny opens up FaceTime and sets the phone on the bar-I just watch and listen. I don’t have a penny’s interest in this biz, but if I did oh boy would I be happy. They booked a huge winner. People having fun, spending money, really doesn’t get much better.

Best
Fatboy
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I quit going to anything farcebook more than a year ago, so if there, I won't see it.

I met Johnny when he gave me a pool lesson here in town, gee, was it in 2005 or so? Damn, time flies. I remember most our talk about my grip position and arm length, etc. He seemed like a sweetheart to me.


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
I quit going to anything farcebook more than a year ago, so if there, I won't see it.

I met Johnny when he gave me a pool lesson here in town, gee, was it in 2005 or so? Damn, time flies. I remember most our talk about my grip position and arm length, etc. He seemed like a sweetheart to me.


Jeff Livingston
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He’s a great guy. When he does lessons he really cares. I know that for sure. He talks about them after sometimes. Funny thing is, I’ve never had a lesson with him. We have played 3 times is all. One set to 11 to warm him up in reno, 45 minutes in Vegas once and one other time I can’t recall the circumstances. We talk about what friends do, and the pool biz, not much pool talk otherwise. Johnny is just himself, once in a blue moon he’ll put on a professional face and do his job despite his mood-but that rare.

I’m so happy for him, he caught a few bad rolls in life from 2016-2020 were tough times. We all have them. He’s past them. They weren’t anything he brought on himself, I’ve went through rough patches too, we all have.
 
I also remember reading about some tourney in SC maybe? where Johnny, per possibly accustats, played perfectly.

He got second place, imsmc.


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Yep. My folks lived next door to guy who pretty much made it happen. He passed away a couple of years ago.

It sits there, empty, empty, and again, empty.

Beautiful place, though.


Jeff Livingston
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With Penske running it they'll do ok. Already have races scheduled for this season.
 
tomatoshooter said:
Yeah, he had a stellar run. I like one of his early big matches the announcers are joking about how Johnny looks like he just left the prom.
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Johnny was breaking real well during his prime, and his swing was straight, and never had too much speed on the cue ball. Like the great PGA golfers his age that ''can flat out play''. He stayed away from the chemical warfare guys, he had class.
 
Bigdaddi44 said:
I've been toying with the idea of opening a small room for he last 10 years or so and finally decided to pull the trigger. The problem is that right now seems like the wrong time. With viruses and jobs lost, people losing their minds over simple things like "my choice is greater than your choice". I'm just wondering if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Not to mention the cost of equipment and permits. What do you think?
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I know that in Minnesota the billiards rooms all seem to draw a lot of customers at about $6/hour for table time.

I know that pool cues are ridiculously expensive, and it's very hard to find a good one for a reasonable price. Schmelke now has a waiting time of a month for any cue ordered from them, because they've been having trouble keeping up with demand.

Leagues seem popular, and tournaments seem popular.

Northern California may be different, and of course Commiefornia has been ridiculous with lockdowns, mandates, and even curfews, but the general vibe I'm getting is that there's a lot of interest in playing pool these days, and I think there's a large segment of the population that is starting to understand that locking themselves in solitary confinement all the time is completely insane.

Of course, there are ways of running a successful business, and ways of running a business into the ground, but that is always true at any time.
 
Fatboy said:
Read my post above this. I’m a biz man last 30 years. It’s what I do. I been around pool ~40 years. Misspent youth thing.

Read the long post above, will help you a lot I’m sure. Hopefully some other.

Be great if more rooms opened with a winning formula. Still puts cues in hands.
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IMHO your advice is as solid as granite.

I also have owned personally, or in partnership, small commercial rentals … probably a bit smaller … and if you build a hangout and can handle the expense, why not. Think Wayne Huizenga and the Marlins.

But to run for profit it is blood, sweat, tears, time and math that become primary.

I seldom drink alcohol, but wouldn’t consider a room without a full liquor and beer license and a kitchen … so my personal tastes wouldn’t govern my business decisions.

I also try to eat a healthy diet, but the menu would be bar food … burgers, fries, chili and maybe one or two steak offerings. Tofu would not make the menu cut.

If for moral reasons I couldn’t do those things, I wouldn’t do it.

I haven’t seen a room anywhere in Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Tennessee, West Virginia that was pool and ONLY pool and also stayed afloat.
 
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