Is playing in a league really worth it?

[Inaction]

I have some good memories of league play and the tournaments that were possible because of being in a league.

Several games in the anchor position where I needed a 10-0, 1 or 2 and I pull it off to win the round.

Placing fourth three times in the top class of the state team tournament. Different team each time.

Vegas two times, Reno once. In one 25 game match, we were down 60 points after 13 games and only needed 5 balls in the last game to win the match. Our five player pulled it off.

I got to play SVB on his first appearance in the State 8-ball. He was six and I knew if he did not have too many clusters, he had a good probability of running out. I won 2-0.

On the other hand, I hate the loud profanity laced crap coming out of the jukeboxes, and $1.50 per game. I have no interest in playing league now.

 

[us820]

I ***** about apa but I have made some new friends and had a lot of good nights out.If I would play again it would only be for funsies on a like minded team.The secret squirrel match ups and all eight people showing up not knowing if when or who they will play sucks.We had a great pick who you want to play fun is the only objective attitude -and it was a great session and we made playoffs.We worked around peoples schedules to play early or late.If you won,great.If you shat the bed,ha ha ha who cares?It was so low drama.And this is coming from a guy that hates to lose.

 

[us820]

And too add,the wrong team mix sucks to play on.You will also just by averages play some real jerks here and there.I think apa is great for experience and geared for low sl players.I think as a 7 you better have some thick skin because when an undercapped mid to low sl beats you with a big spot ,the other team will flip out and act like they won the world series.

 

[jrctherake]

Sound advice, except......

Where do I get these lessons?

So far.....I’ve struck out.

AbZ?
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=398957

Yelp?
https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=billiards+lessons&find_loc=Los+Angeles,+CA

Facebook?
https://poolskool.weebly.com/

Online?
Takelessons.com https://takelessons.com/search?serv...90001&location[accuracy]=city&promo_version=A

Next county over? ***70 Miles RT***
http://buterasbilliards.com/lessons/

Yellow Pages?
https://www.yellowpages.com/los-angeles-ca/billiard-lessons

Bark.com?
https://www.bark.com/buyers/bark/Qwkjk4/

Sorry so late to answer but, there are several good coach/instructors out there.

There are a couple on here that are ok.

I would suggest Mark Wilson. He is on Facebook. I'm not sure what he who charge you but, it would be worth it.

Depending on your location, he usually works people in within 4 to 6 months.

Have a good one,

Jeff

 

[JC]

I agree - if all you want is monetary ROI, don't join APA. In fact, if you aren't one of the best players in your area, your best ROI in ANY league system is negative. There's no good monetary reason to play in a league. If you want more from your league experience, APA may be the league for you. It's not all drinkers and bangers, but there are some here who would like you to believe that because it's the only way they can prop up their puny little (and I'm not sure about even the "hundreds" claim - you need at least 200 members for that) BCA leagues.

Oh, and if all you want is improvement, don't join a league. There is improvement in all leagues, but not enough in any to satisfy you if that's your goal. In APA you can improve say 0-50 over time with 0 being pure beginner, and in BCA it's maybe 50-55. Less than 50 and you won't learn much in your short time in the league - you'll get tired of losing and quit or your team will drop you. So if that's your goal, you're better off just matching up or playing in tournaments. You get more play / practice that way.

How much do you earn as an APA operator per session?

Do you do it for free for the love of pool and the pool community like our "puny" BCA league operator does?

 

[BC21]

Years ago I did the VNEA for several years. It was fun and provided opportunity to hang out with friends over a little pool and a few beers. There was no BCA league here back then. I quit playing on the league after getting married and having kids. I still played a lot of pool then, just not on leagues. The thing about leagues is you only play a handful of games over a 2 or 3 hour time period, and that's not my idea of "playing pool".

After my kids were in their teens and wanted little to do with daddy anymore, the owner of a local poolhall started a BCA league and asked me to play, so I did. I like BCA more than VNEA because I mostly play on Diamond tables and VNEA is played strictly on Valley bar boxes. I have been playing BCA for a few years now, and I don't see it as an opportunity to play pool. It's more of an opportunity to perform with like-minded players. For me playing pool involves a lot more table time than just a few games of 8ball. I enjoy long gambling sessions and cash tournaments, but also enjoy the camaraderie of performing with a group of friends.

And I read where another poster said that free Vegas trips aren't free. I've won quite a few trips to Vegas, and in a way he's sort of correct, but it's still a good deal. The amount of money most players spend every week in league fees adds up to around 4 or 5 hundred dollars for the season, which covers airfare to Vegas. And the league also pays your hotel stay, another several hundred bucks. If you spend a lot money every league night, 40 to 60 dollars on top of your weekly league fee, then your Vegas trip will surely not be free in the end, if you happen to win a trip. So limit how much money you spend on league nights.

Our BCA league takes the top 3 teams to Vegas, but also randomly draws 3 other teams that really have no chance of making it into the top 3. I went to Vegas twice this year for league play, and it was nice to see newer players in the league, players that are average or below average in skill level, get a trip to Vegas. One guy told me he had never been to Vegas and would not have been able to go if it wasn't for the luck of the draw winning the free trip. Sure he probably spent anywhere from $700 to $1000 throughout the league season, but in the end he was in Vegas and was as happy as could be.

If you decide to play league, don't do it because you want a "free" trip to Vegas. Don't do it because you want to play more pool.... like I said you'll only be playing a handful of games every week. It's a learning opportunity, but it's not practice. Play league because you love the game and want to be involved in it with others. Do it to hang out with friends and to learn from better players by paying attention to what they do while they're at the table. Do it to build up your nerves, to develop confidence, to gain experience, and to maybe help weaker players if you can. Do it for the game.

 

[Black-Balled]

I'm curious, from what perspectve are they (we) cutting it? Why do YOU think APA is so successful? Like it or not, they are.

Maryjane and jaegermeister.

Without a doubt.

 

[Protractor]

...On the other hand, I hate the loud profanity laced crap coming out of the jukeboxes, and $1.50 per game. I have no interest in playing league now.

A number of us in the local VNEA league have invested in the Bose bluetooth earbuds for that reason. We can wear both buds during league play with the understanding that we pay attention to our opponent but at the state tournament (where the music is mostly better but they are still blasting it) we're only allowed to wear one bud so that we can hear our opponent.

Back to the ROI thing, at minimum it requires a time investment. You can replenish money spent but you can't get that time back which is the a** chapper for me because I feel I am not getting my 'money's worth' from time spent sitting around. If there is an empty table I will go over to it and work on things during the down times and that helps with my personal ROI but that option is not always available.

 

[lorider]

How much do you earn as an APA operator per session?

Do you do it for free for the love of pool and the pool community like our "puny" BCA league operator does?

So what are you inferring ? Puny bcapl operators are better than any other leagues operators. ?

The puny bcapl league operator in these parts took the money and ran at the end of the year. Not all league operators are from the same mold no matter what league.

 

[Black-Balled]

So what are you inferring ? Puny bcapl operators are better than any other leagues operators. ?

The puny bcapl league operator in these parts took the money and ran at the end of the year. Not all league operators are from the same mold no matter what league.

You infer
He implies

One of many things I learned on the azb.

 

[Low500]

And too add,the wrong team mix sucks to play on.You will also just by averages play some real jerks here and there.I think apa is great for experience and geared for low sl players.I think as a 7 you better have some thick skin because when an undercapped mid to low sl beats you with a big spot ,the other team will flip out and act like they won the world series.

30 years ago when I was single, playing in the old Busch league was fun because I got to meet a lot of women and ended up dating a lot of them as well as being rejected by a lot of them. It was a great social activity and a non-binding prelude to real "dates", which followed. You could learn a little about some women's attitudes about a lot of things at those pool matches.
As for the pool shooting aspect, you are quite correct.
The ego of some of those people is something to behold.
I once had a 3 chasing me in a match (he was probably a 6 really) and he went berserk when I kept throwing safeties on him trying to get that ball in hand so I could outrun the spot.
He went wild calling me a "safety playing bastard, scared to shoot" and then wanted to fight. His teammates never said a thing to calm him down either.
I got out of the place in one piece after worrying whether I was going to get a cue stick whacked on my head, but that was the end of the league stuff for me.
I hope it isn't the same now. I never could figure out why those people became so dangerous and irate over pool matches that didn't even have any money gambling involved either.

 

[ShootingArts]

30 years ago when I was single, playing in the old Busch league was fun because I got to meet a lot of women and ended up dating a lot of them as well as being rejected by a lot of them. It was a great social activity and a non-binding prelude to real "dates", which followed. You could learn a little about some women's attitudes about a lot of things at those pool matches.
As for the pool shooting aspect, you are quite correct.
The ego of some of those people is something to behold.
I once had a 3 chasing me in a match (he was probably a 6 really) and he went berserk when I kept throwing safeties on him trying to get that ball in hand so I could outrun the spot.
He went wild calling me a "safety playing bastard, scared to shoot" and then wanted to fight. His teammates never said a thing to calm him down either.
I got out of the place in one piece after worrying whether I was going to get a cue stick whacked on my head, but that was the end of the league stuff for me.
I hope it isn't the same now. I never could figure out why those people became so dangerous and irate over pool matches that didn't even have any money gambling involved either.

You said it, ego and impressing the girls! Before I got a bit smoother I got in more fights over three or five dollar games than I ever got into over serious money. I got in a fight with three guys over a quarter!

Aside from not getting enough playing time compared to time wasted the biggest issue with league and teams is that both are a crapshoot. The quality of the team you have no idea about if it was formed of strangers. Here I am talking personal qualities, pool ability doesn't matter much to enjoy yourself. Then the quality of the venues, venue owner's and league operator come into play. I see team leagues being played in bars with one Valley table! Works for the owner, everyone else has nothing to do but sit around and drink. I would never consider playing a team event with one table!

If the right ingredients come together league can be fun for some. If the ingredients are wrong a season long commitment stretches on forever.

Hu

 

[JC]

So what are you inferring ? Puny bcapl operators are better than any other leagues operators. ?

The puny bcapl league operator in these parts took the money and ran at the end of the year. Not all league operators are from the same mold no matter what league.

From the sound of it the APA payback isn't much better than the BCA guy who stole it all. At least you knew where he stood.:smile:

My question was fair. And of course, unanswered.

 

[Protractor]

Aside from not getting enough playing time compared to time wasted the biggest issue with league and teams is that both are a crapshoot. The quality of the team you have no idea about if it was formed of strangers. Here I am talking personal qualities, pool ability doesn't matter much to enjoy yourself.

I would not play league if it required getting paired up with folks I knew nothing about. In this smallish town in a sparsely populated area everyone at least knows who the other players are in the league and how they shoot. The only downside is some folks have gotten a little pissy when someone jumps to another team and they now have to play against them. There have been a few that have quit during the season due to small town drama.

Then the quality of the venues, venue owner's and league operator come into play. I see team leagues being played in bars with one Valley table! Works for the owner, everyone else has nothing to do but sit around and drink. I would never consider playing a team event with one table!/QUOTE]

Hu

In this podunk place we don't have much of a choice. Most places have at least a couple tables but if they are owned by the bar owner they are usually crap so we end up shooting on the least crappy one. Some of the better players have taken to buying cloth and recovering such tables at their favorite hangout.

Yes, I will be moving to a more populated area now that I don't have ties to here other than friends. For a pool addict like me, Vegas is on the short list.

 

[ShootingArts]

good points

I would not play league if it required getting paired up with folks I knew nothing about. In this smallish town in a sparsely populated area everyone at least knows who the other players are in the league and how they shoot. The only downside is some folks have gotten a little pissy when someone jumps to another team and they now have to play against them. There have been a few that have quit during the season due to small town drama.



In this podunk place we don't have much of a choice. Most places have at least a couple tables but if they are owned by the bar owner they are usually crap so we end up shooting on the least crappy one. Some of the better players have taken to buying cloth and recovering such tables at their favorite hangout.

Yes, I will be moving to a more populated area now that I don't have ties to here other than friends. For a pool addict like me, Vegas is on the short list.

Everything you said made sense. That is one thing about people giving advice on the internet, they are almost always using their own experience and own points of reference. It is close to an hour run north or south for me to get to a diamond table that I know of. Both places are big town/little city size. It is easy to sign up with somebody assembling teams and not know anyone or only one person on your team.

My home town was and is about like your small town and I was a few miles from it. My grandmother ran pretty much the town centered on her store and the post office she ran built into the side of it. Even if someone wasn't close friends with you, you still knew their business and they knew yours. If there was a small scandal real or imagined everyone knew about it in a few hours! It was big city time when we got a redlight. A few years later it was taken down and the flashing light put back up. Oh well, so much for the big city look and someday getting two redlights! That redlight had been a seven day wonder when it was put in. People came to town just to stop at the redlight! I moved away and am living on a farm fifteen or twenty miles from the nearest redlight. That doesn't bother me though, the thrill is gone!

Hu

 

[APA Operator]

How much do you earn as an APA operator per session?

Do you do it for free for the love of pool and the pool community like our "puny" BCA league operator does?

What's your point? He sits there and dogs APA, but the fact remains that more people pay their money to play APA than do his "puny" league - if that's not ROI, then what is it? Oh, and my revenue is on page one of my bylaws - anyone can see how much I make, and they STILL choose to play.

APA allows me to make money WHILE GROWING THE SPORT I LOVE. Exactly what has he done for the sport?

 

[JC]

What's your point? He sits there and dogs APA, but the fact remains that more people pay their money to play APA than do his "puny" league - if that's not ROI, then what is it? Oh, and my revenue is on page one of my bylaws - anyone can see how much I make, and they STILL choose to play.

APA allows me to make money WHILE GROWING THE SPORT I LOVE. Exactly what has he done for the sport?

It was a simple question. I don't have time to try to hunt down your bylaws.

Chris had done plenty for the sport. All while calling balls and not marking pockets with a silly knick knack.

APA is an activity, while BCA is a serious competition. Both involve pool but only one involves pool players.

 

[Protractor]

Everything you said made sense. That is one thing about people giving advice on the internet, they are almost always using their own experience and own points of reference. It is close to an hour run north or south for me to get to a diamond table that I know of. Both places are big town/little city size. It is easy to sign up with somebody assembling teams and not know anyone or only one person on your team... Hu

There is a city north of here that has an Eagles lodge with about a dozen Diamond bar tables in their bar and it is open to the public but it is a 2 hour drive one way.Since I have to run up there for shopping that isn't available here in town and to ferry a stroke survivor friend to his medical appointments I do get a chance to play for an hour or so every couple months. They also have weekly tournaments (non-sanctioned as far as I can tell) that rotate through 8,9,10 ball and scotch doubles. I plan on trying some of those but it will either require an overnight stay or a long drive home after the match.

I moved back here from Los Angeles to look after my aging parents. In LA I didn't play a lot of pool but mostly kept my game. Not sure what the scene was but there were some nice places to play. I want to move somewhere that doesn't have 9 months of winter and at least has a pro-am league where I can mostly play folks that are as good as or better than I. I'm not a fan of playing folks that can't muster a good challenge or the handicap system and would rather play straight up.

 

[sbpoolleague]

I'm curious, from what perspectve are they (we) cutting it? Why do YOU think APA is so successful? Like it or not, they are.

For the same reason Donald Trump is President.
People are stupid.

 

[jokrswylde]

APA is an activity, while BCA is a serious competition. Both involve pool but only one involves pool players.

wow.

For the same reason Donald Trump is President.
People are stupid.

Or it could be a large enough majority got tired of snobby elitist thinking they were smarter than them? Hmmmm.

Good Lord it's like a bunch of high school girl drama.

Let's let the APA masters division singles world champion play the BCA singles world champion.

No shaking hands.

No smiling photo ops.

They must HATE each other.

They will play until one of them admits that their league is inferior.

Let's get ready to Rumble.