Is pool dying in the US???

P

Porcospino

Registered
I see it more and more every passing day. Less and less people in the poolhalls, action is deminishing left and right, and nice rooms are simply closing down. What is the deal?? I mean doesn't anyone care for this sport anymore? So many players I know have just quit all out or have fallen into this APA crap and that seems to be safice for them!!

What can we change in the US?? A room owner was kind of ill at me because I grabbed 3 of my buddys and took them to a different poolhall to play in a tournament one time. He said I was taking business away from him and helping the other place out. I was helping pool out by keeping more players interested in the sport. I wasn't trying to take away business. I mean with the way pool is going shouldn't we stick together rather than fall apart?

Another thing, if you try and start up some kind of weekly tournament that doesn't interfere with any other poolhall's tournaments. Like let's take for example in my area Tuesdays and Thurdays there isn't a poolhall within 20 miles hosting any kind of tournament, but if I wanted to start one at a particular place and try and get the word out other pool room owners wont accept the flyers in their place because they don't want players to leave their room and go play somewhere else....

Does anyone else see where I'm coming from???

APA, other leagues, and terrible handicap systems in tournaments are also HUGE problems!!!!!!!!! People are commited to playing on their league team rather than go to a tournament, it's unreal and in most tournaments in my area you have to play perfect to win because you get jacked up so high in their RETARDED handicap system that one or two bad rolls and the other guy runs away from you. I mean at this one place I have to give out the 6 with 3 games on the wire going to 7 to someone who can run 3 or 4 balls with ball in hand!!! I don't even play that good, I have just won it once or twice and got 3rd once. Ever since then everytime I go out there I get steam rolled and HE WONT ADJUST ME!!!!!! Seriously how is anyone supposed to stay interested in the game if everywhere you go there is some beat handicap system that gears for the lower ranked player to win and you are jacked up so high you might as well be donating, then you go to an OPEN event and donate there because you apparently play too good for these people and not good enough to play those people. So tell me, aside from slitting my wrist and bleeding out in the bathroom, how can we expect to keep me and others like me (I'm pretty sure I am not the only person in America with this problem) interested in the sport when we are punished for playing good?? In order for pool to stay alive we need to commit to the right priorities in order to make it happen.
 
Well, if you want the game to grow, don't bother slagging the APA or the other leagues you seem to look down upon. The APA does more for bringing new players to the game than any house tournament does. When I started playing pool, I hated tournaments because I knew I had little chance of winning against the better players. However, I liked matching up against players of my own level or slightly better, as I felt I had a chance to win. Like it or not, the APA brings new players to the league by offering various levels of competition within its ranks. If you are a 4, you do not have to constantly play 7s. You may get to play the odd good player, but you're going to be in a recreational setting, and will be playing against players near your calibre.

The APA (CPA where I'm from) has done wonders for my game. Everyone here complains about the APA, yet my attitude is that I never play the opponent, I play the table. If I play the table, what does it matter if my opponent is overranked or underranked. The APA, BCAPL, or any other organized league will do more for the game, in terms of growth, than anything else. You want to do something for pool? Get 7 of your friends that play pool, and start a team. It's amazing what happens when you go out and play. Other people you know may start asking about it and actually go out and buy a cue, or start asking if you have openings on your team.
 
Think the problem is not that Pool is dying, pool has competition that is taking kids out of place that use to have pool tables, or those places do not exist any longer for kids to play pool. Competition is WII, Text Messaging, Video Games, etc.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Think the problem is not that Pool is dying, pool has competition that is taking kids out of place that use to have pool tables, or those places do not exist any longer for kids to play pool. Competition is WII, Text Messaging, Video Games, etc.
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yeah i can agree with that. i've been a die hard pool fan for going on 6 years and i've passed up going to the pool hall to stay home and play xbox (yeah i know i'm a nerd).

people today are only interested in instant gratification (fast food, hi tek gadgets etc...).

i think if we can bring back the cup and ball people will start to understand that just because something isn't instantly gratifying it's still worth doing. to help support this idea please send 1 dollar to cup&ball.org
 
Pool halls may be declining in number, but equipment retailers seem to be doing fine. More people have large houses that can accommodate a table. Given the price of table time, you don't have to play much to justify buying a table.

So pool halls become mainly bars to get the booze revenue, or cater to leagues. Why should you and your friends go to a pool hall to play if one of you has a table at home?
 
Pool leagues like APA are the big reason we still have pool here.If that makes sense.
 
Porcospino said:
I see it more and more every passing day. Less and less people in the poolhalls, action is deminishing left and right, and nice rooms are simply closing down. What is the deal?? I mean doesn't anyone care for this sport anymore? So many players I know have just quit all out or have fallen into this APA crap and that seems to be safice for them!!

What can we change in the US?? A room owner was kind of ill at me because I grabbed 3 of my buddys and took them to a different poolhall to play in a tournament one time. He said I was taking business away from him and helping the other place out. I was helping pool out by keeping more players interested in the sport. I wasn't trying to take away business. I mean with the way pool is going shouldn't we stick together rather than fall apart?

Another thing, if you try and start up some kind of weekly tournament that doesn't interfere with any other poolhall's tournaments. Like let's take for example in my area Tuesdays and Thurdays there isn't a poolhall within 20 miles hosting any kind of tournament, but if I wanted to start one at a particular place and try and get the word out other pool room owners wont accept the flyers in their place because they don't want players to leave their room and go play somewhere else....

Does anyone else see where I'm coming from???

APA, other leagues, and terrible handicap systems in tournaments are also HUGE problems!!!!!!!!! People are commited to playing on their league team rather than go to a tournament, it's unreal and in most tournaments in my area you have to play perfect to win because you get jacked up so high in their RETARDED handicap system that one or two bad rolls and the other guy runs away from you. I mean at this one place I have to give out the 6 with 3 games on the wire going to 7 to someone who can run 3 or 4 balls with ball in hand!!! I don't even play that good, I have just won it once or twice and got 3rd once. Ever since then everytime I go out there I get steam rolled and HE WONT ADJUST ME!!!!!! Seriously how is anyone supposed to stay interested in the game if everywhere you go there is some beat handicap system that gears for the lower ranked player to win and you are jacked up so high you might as well be donating, then you go to an OPEN event and donate there because you apparently play too good for these people and not good enough to play those people. So tell me, aside from slitting my wrist and bleeding out in the bathroom, how can we expect to keep me and others like me (I'm pretty sure I am not the only person in America with this problem) interested in the sport when we are punished for playing good?? In order for pool to stay alive we need to commit to the right priorities in order to make it happen.
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It isn't only pool rooms that are struggling in the current economy. ALL businesses are feeling the pinch! Take a look around at all the other businesses that are closing. Restaurants, clothing stores, auto dealerships, furniture stores and the list goes on and on. With people out of work and everyone struggling to make ends meet, it is a challenge to keep your doors open.

We are in a recession bordering on a depression. I won't go into why I think this happened but I am optimistic that we can and will recover. People are resilient and will find new ways to make a living. Hopefully next year will bring better times once again. And see better times for pool rooms as well.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
yet my attitude is that I never play the opponent, I play the table. If I play the table, what does it matter if my opponent is overranked or underranked.
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Ok this statement is not accurate. Try giving someone the 7 out who plays the same speed as you and just play the table. You'll find out that underranked player will bust you REAL QUICK unless they get extremely bad rolls or you play perfect pool.

People don't like to be pitted against better players because they don't have any heart...... That's why they cry about handicaps and spots all the time because they don't want to lose!!! Punishing better players because others haven't put the time or practice into the game that they have isn't the right thing to do. Champions within are born, not made.... You have to have a desire to be better, want to win, and mainly not scared to play ANYONE. Leagues are not going to produce high caliber players, end of story. Heck, APA doesn't even teach people to play 9-Ball correctly LOL go figure. If someone wants to be good they have to grind their way to the top by other means. Gambling, Open Events, Professional Intrustion, and etc.... Who cares about Joe Blow who comes out once a week to play his APA match and get drunk? You need to care about the guy/kid who is in the poolhall 7 days a week trying to become top quality. He will be the one doing something for pool by adding to the list of great players the US has. Joe Blow isn't going to get there and doesn't care to get there, but yet everything is accomidated for him to win because he doesn't play as good. I have an idea, lets hold someones hand and breast feed them until they are 10 years old. You know how birds teach their young to fly?? They don't carry them around on their backs they throw them out of the nest!!!
 
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Ok, now my question being Is pool dying in the US.. That is targeted towards producing Professional players, Representation of the US in major events, and serious stuff like that. I went off on a rant at the end about leagues and handicapped tournaments because those are the reasons I think so many give up on their paths to becoming a Professional player because there isn't solid support system to HELP them get there.

Armstrong, I'm sorry if I might of made you mad over talking crap about about your league. Good for you I hope you make it to a 7 one day or whatever handicap you are trying to reach.

Seriously, though why are we cutting our upcoming pool players off at the knees?? Like for example I believe I've reached a point to where I need some Professional instruction or an evalution of what I'm doing wrong. Problem is I don't really have 75-100 bucks an hour to give someone to teach me. Not many are even very reasonable on trying to work something out its the set rate and if ou don't have it oh well..... This is one example of what my real question is concerning. I mean sure chop some newbie player up for $75 an hour, but someone who can actually make it or has the talents and just needs a little financial help and direction?? Come on now think of the future... If you teach that young person who doesn't care to play video games, be lazy, chase girls around, or enjoy other things someone in their lower 20s do because they want NOTHING more than to become the next Johnny Archer and spend 7 days a week in the poolhalls for 8+ hours a day to try and get there and they go on to make it. Then what is the problem? You just contributed to the future of Professional Billiards and keeping the US in the game and at what cost?? Some of your time... I know people have got to make a living, but damn.
 
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I see that you're fairly new here, at least as a poster. Welcome! This has been/is discussed pretty regularly here. I agree with Jay, the econemy is a problem for everyone, not just pool rooms. There are people who post here who have come up with new games/leagues and are working hard to get them running. I detest the apa but because of apa and other leagues there are people playing, to some extent. I haven't played outside my house now in several years because I don't like bar table venues for the most part and there hasn't been anything like a pool room in this area for a long time.
I'm afraid there isn't much the individual player can do for the game at this point in time, other than try to play more, if possible, and encourage others to play also. This is what I'm doing at my house, at present, but I can only accommodate a few people at a time.
 
Porco- how long have you been in the pool world? You observations, have existed a long time through many's eyes.

Now that I think about it, pool has never been a career for more than a handful. In fact, much of the old days' lore is based around it being an underground, borderline Robin-Hoodesque pursuit.

It is a game for chrisssakes. It would be nice if we could all play for a living, but the World needs some work.
 
Porcospino said:
Ok, now my question being Is pool dying in the US.. That is targeted towards Professional play, Representation of the US, and serious stuff like that. I went off on a rant at the end about leagues and handicapped tournaments because those are the reasons I think so many give up on becoming a Professional player because there isn't a support system to HELP them get there.
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Your comment implies there once was a thriving professional pool scene in the US. This was never the case. There never has been such a thing as professional pool. It has always just been a social game people played and thats it. Some may try to make a living at it and call them selves professional buts it's a pretense.
 
Casinos killed pool

On line poker too. A few years ago if you wanted to gamble there was one place to go. Usually it was the poolhall. Sometimes the bowling alley. Brunswick would have bowling and billiards in sister buildings usually owned by a single gentleman or company.
Casinos opened every where. On line poker is literally in every house. Some of the best and smartest players never play any more. They see more money where it is.
The other gamblers went to.
Nick :)
 
Black-Balled said:
Porco- how long have you been in the pool world? You observations, have existed a long time through many's eyes.

Now that I think about it, pool has never been a career for more than a handful. In fact, much of the old days' lore is based around it being an underground, borderline Robin-Hoodesque pursuit.

It is a game for chrisssakes. It would be nice if we could all play for a living, but the World needs some work.
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Golf, Football, Baseball, Soccer, Basketball, Tennis. Are also all games, Pool is no different. Attitudes like yours and people with negativity about Professional play is why Europe and Asia will dominate the so called "pool world" in the upcoming 10 years or so. Most turn to underground because they can't make enough money in tournaments because there isn't big investers and sponserships like in the other sports. That's what it comes down to... Not enough people with money care for the sport. You wait and see if things don't change here in America in the next 10-15 years the American pool player will be far and few between compared to the rest of the world. If they put pool in the Olympics like what the Europe Championships do you would see a big change in the sport.
 
AH yes, POKER is a game. The others I mentioned including pool are sports, totally different. It requires far less skill (to sit there on your behind, calculate percentages, judge people's emotions, and get lucky here and there) than in pool and in the WPT you will make WAY more money than in pool. WHY???

Answer;
Popularity!!!!

Like I said if we fixed the priorities about pool here in America it would get better and attract more people that are rewarded for there performance not punished...
 
Porcospino said:
Armstrong, I'm sorry if I might of made you mad over talking crap about about your league. Good for you I hope you make it to a 7 one day or whatever handicap you are trying to reach.
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LOL. You have no clue what level I play at, but because I play in the APA, I must be a hack. In the past 3 sessions, I have had two teammates, Mike Roberts and DJ McGinley, on my league teams. Mikey beat Thomas Engert at the BCA Open (straight race, no handicap). DJ has been a world beater in the past, as he used to run the road with Dennis Hatch, and DJ has beat the likes of Earl, Corey, etc. at the US Open in a non handicapped format. So, before you talk about my little league and how we have no heart, know who you're talking about.

The fact is, there is no real competitive stage for good players any more. I have 2 kids, a wife and a career. I cannot sit in the pool hall 7 days a week like I have no life. It's a GAME. The BCAPL is on Tuesday nights here, and I really enjoy a race format over single games. I decided to play CPA because it allows me a night out, and I have a chance to play and be social. Oh, btw, I earned my 7 status awhile ago. And, even though I play at a fairly high level (but definitely not NEARLY as good as you are), I still enjoy the APA/CPA. It's the whiners like you that cry about handicaps that ruin the league.

I bet you're the guy that plays in front of me at the golf course. 20+ handicap, but you're playing the tips because "real men" play from there. Shot a 114, but it was from the tips.
 
Porcospino said:
Attitudes like yours and people with negativity about Professional play is why Europe and Asia will dominate the so called "pool world" in the upcoming 10 years or so. You wait and see if things don't change here in America in the next 10-15 years the American pool player will be far and few between compared to the rest of the world.
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Yes, because it would be a crime that the USA wasn't the best country for producing pool players. Face it, pool isn't a part of American cultures the same way as it is in Europe. People drive their cars to the corner store in the US. People walk places in Europe. Kids play Xbox in the USA because the parents buy them the toys. In Europe, kids still go out and kick a ball around. The other social climates in the world allow pool players to become better, because people still go out to do things.

America is the land of instant gratification. Biggie sizes, video games, online everything. Pool doesn't fit into that scheme. The Europeans and Asians, btw, have an EXCELLENT house league program for pool in their areas. Ever wonder how that kid you were talking about earlier, playing in the pool hall 7 days a week, got started? He most likely either started playing in a league, or his buddy that he plays with is most likely a league player as well. When you turn your nose down at the leagues, you're biting your hand feeding yourself.
 
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