Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
I was reading on the Action Threads and came across a statement. I didnt have a horse in the race and really couldnt givafk but the question remains;
Is racking your own a gaff?
Is racking your own a gaff?
Is racking your own a gaff?
- Thread starter Voodoo Daddy
- Start date
We used to have that rule in the Semi-Pro and Pro level a few years back over here in Montreal.
The rules were simple: Winner racks and breaks. The 2 ball has to be in the back and the 9 ball on the break was to go back on the spot and the breaking playing to continue his inning.
I think its the best rule but it has been taken off because some players complained that others were cheating by having a specific ball order to ensure an easy layout and some would tilt the rack to make the wing ball 99.9% of the time.
The rules were simple: Winner racks and breaks. The 2 ball has to be in the back and the 9 ball on the break was to go back on the spot and the breaking playing to continue his inning.
I think its the best rule but it has been taken off because some players complained that others were cheating by having a specific ball order to ensure an easy layout and some would tilt the rack to make the wing ball 99.9% of the time.
While there are valid negatives of rack your own, they pale in comparison to the completely problematic loser-racks.
Loser racks had become completely unworkable. Grinding matches, tournaments and the flow of the game down to a miserable level. Far too many racks would get contested by the breaking player and it just became too much of a factor. Couldn't watch a match without rack controversy being a big part of it and consuming so much time. Arguments, fights, added tension and hostility....
It's bad for the fans, for the players and the tournament directors who would have to come in an settle disputes. We fans want to see pool, not endless fighting over rack tightness, position etcetera.
Keep in mind one thing about rack your own - the opponent has the right to challenge the rack as being illegal in some way (being tilted for example). Just because it's rack your own doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to the rack. The challenges for rack your own are many, many times fewer than loser racks. Rarely ever see them. And when we do, they are usually much less confrontational. The opponent points to something or says something and the breaking player fixes it since it was either an innocent error or he got busted trying to cheat the rack and knows it.
A rack your own player isn't going to sabotage his/her own rack. Therefore, the things they can do for an advantage are things usually noticeable if the opponent is paying attention. Thus, it's very hard for the racking player to argue his own rack is legit. But players do try and get away with whatever they can. Some are unethical and figure it doesn't hurt to try, but if you sneak a few past them - it can help.
Overall though, with rack your own, players have been getting better racks and higher percentage of balls made on the break. This factor pretty much eliminates any incentive to cheat the rack or go in that direction. Good players know with rack your own they can get a perfect or near perfect rack and make a ball on the break. With that, it's usually a run out. So why bother with the nonsense?
The issue of pattern racking is a whole separate topic. I know in Europe at one point they had a rule that the 2 ball had to be in a different position each time, and could not return back to that position until it had been in all the other possible positions. This was obviously to combat pattern racking.
For non-refereed matches, I hope there will never be a return to loser racks. The game has been so much better since the pool world has mostly adopted rack your own.
Loser racks had become completely unworkable. Grinding matches, tournaments and the flow of the game down to a miserable level. Far too many racks would get contested by the breaking player and it just became too much of a factor. Couldn't watch a match without rack controversy being a big part of it and consuming so much time. Arguments, fights, added tension and hostility....
It's bad for the fans, for the players and the tournament directors who would have to come in an settle disputes. We fans want to see pool, not endless fighting over rack tightness, position etcetera.
Keep in mind one thing about rack your own - the opponent has the right to challenge the rack as being illegal in some way (being tilted for example). Just because it's rack your own doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to the rack. The challenges for rack your own are many, many times fewer than loser racks. Rarely ever see them. And when we do, they are usually much less confrontational. The opponent points to something or says something and the breaking player fixes it since it was either an innocent error or he got busted trying to cheat the rack and knows it.
A rack your own player isn't going to sabotage his/her own rack. Therefore, the things they can do for an advantage are things usually noticeable if the opponent is paying attention. Thus, it's very hard for the racking player to argue his own rack is legit. But players do try and get away with whatever they can. Some are unethical and figure it doesn't hurt to try, but if you sneak a few past them - it can help.
Overall though, with rack your own, players have been getting better racks and higher percentage of balls made on the break. This factor pretty much eliminates any incentive to cheat the rack or go in that direction. Good players know with rack your own they can get a perfect or near perfect rack and make a ball on the break. With that, it's usually a run out. So why bother with the nonsense?
The issue of pattern racking is a whole separate topic. I know in Europe at one point they had a rule that the 2 ball had to be in a different position each time, and could not return back to that position until it had been in all the other possible positions. This was obviously to combat pattern racking.
For non-refereed matches, I hope there will never be a return to loser racks. The game has been so much better since the pool world has mostly adopted rack your own.
Depends on who you ask and their thoughts behind it.
Donnie Mills has figured out a way to rack in 9 ball where he will make the wing ball in the corner pocket the vast majority of the time. I believe he did it 82 out of 83 times during his TAR match against SVB.
I don't think he is tilting the rack, and probably could do this with the magic rack with anyone racking if they rack it straight. He just knows where to hit the 1 ball and at what speed.
If Donnie places the 2 and 3 balls in a place in the rack where he will easily fall in line with the 1 after the break and be able to connect the dots on almost every rack, then even if it is not a gaff, it sure is boring to watch.
Maybe Donnie should be commended for taking the time to figure out the game and a way to win.
BUT, it definitely is a gaff if the person who is racking is intentionally leaving gaps, tilting the rack, or doing anything manipulative to give them an advantage. If they learned how to break in 9 ball with a rack of frozen balls, then good for them.
But screw it, everyone should just switch to 10 ball anyways!
Donnie Mills has figured out a way to rack in 9 ball where he will make the wing ball in the corner pocket the vast majority of the time. I believe he did it 82 out of 83 times during his TAR match against SVB.
I don't think he is tilting the rack, and probably could do this with the magic rack with anyone racking if they rack it straight. He just knows where to hit the 1 ball and at what speed.
If Donnie places the 2 and 3 balls in a place in the rack where he will easily fall in line with the 1 after the break and be able to connect the dots on almost every rack, then even if it is not a gaff, it sure is boring to watch.
Maybe Donnie should be commended for taking the time to figure out the game and a way to win.
BUT, it definitely is a gaff if the person who is racking is intentionally leaving gaps, tilting the rack, or doing anything manipulative to give them an advantage. If they learned how to break in 9 ball with a rack of frozen balls, then good for them.
But screw it, everyone should just switch to 10 ball anyways!
Rack your own is the best, but it can be a set-up. In a tournament or gambling, you can't allow someone to touch the rack with their fingers after it's been set. If someone is changing tables a lot like in a tournament, I don't see it as a problem.
In gambling, because you don't change tables if a player has time to experiment around and tap a few balls, he can set the rack to make the corner ball more often, or make the 1 in the side, and for that matter the get the 9 ball flying too.
The rack and balls should be decent enough to allow the front 3 balls to freeze. The rest you can freeze with finger manipulation while racking, but the front three have to fit properly. Crummy racks invite all sorts of problems. The cracks can be read and an experienced player can increase the odds of making the wing ball in the corner just by the location and size of the crack behind the 1ball.
It still takes talent judging the exact hit and speed to make the corner ball. Very few could beat a Corey Deuel, or a Donny Mills in rack your own 9 ball. They would have a hard time getting games because they can read the rack and give themselves good racks. It's like spotting them the 7 - they're that good at it!
Most of the racks I run into will not freeze the front three balls. I now carry masking tape in my case. A strip or two of masking tape on the inside of the rack will tighten it up so you can freeze the balls - it works great.
Chris
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Racking for each other is a gaff. Everything is a gaff no a days. The magic rack is the best solution anymore. And people are calling that a gaff... You can't win. Everyone is so jaded from being hustled, dumped and moved on, the only thing that's not a gaff to them, is when they have a trick up their sleeve.
People talk about this sort of thing like it's some kind of super secret science or voodoo magic.
I think it's a lot more simple. Here's my personal experience and observations on 9-ball racks and breaking:
I've had the privilege (misfortune depending how you see it) of having to set up a few pool tables in my time. I'm not a table mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but I did a grade A job.
Doing this gave me an opportunity to discover something. It allowed me, for the first time in my life to get to break a 9-ball rack under completely perfect conditions. What do I mean by perfect conditions?
Absolutely brand new out of the box Aramith Super Pros, absolutely brand new cloth. Level table. AND....this is important - a properly placed spot (via laser).
When all the balls are new and perfect - they're the same size. That means, they can rack tightly without any fuss. When the cloth is brand new, that means there are no pits, dents or tracks in the cloth. Some call them grooves or whatever. When the spot is just right, the rack can then be placed perfectly assuming you place it perfectly.
What does this lead to? It leads to a player like myself, who sucks, being able to make the wing ball nearly every time. I demonstrated this for my friend on his own table that I set up. I made 20 out of 20 wing balls in a row. It's just too damn easy.
Now, even after a couple dozen racks and breaks these perfect conditions begin to break down. Happens quickly. They are no longer perfect and ideal. There are dents and groves forming in the cloth. Not wear as you know it from say a pool hall table, but CHANGE from the totally new state. Pros know about this because at the start of a tournament, the cloth is playing differently than in the last days. This effects the break too.
The wing balls starts going less and less. I believe this has to do with how the balls are touching, not just the fact that they are all touching each other. One ball could be touching another on the verge of separating, while another, due to a groove or pit in the cloth is "leaning" against another ball. This is just a theory I have. I can't prove it. Some say all touching is the same, as long as the balls are touching it's irrelevant how. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. I know that a new set of balls doesn't wear enough in a day or two to cause gaps. It's definitely the cloth where the balls rest for the break.
Without digressing too much, I can say that on each table I set up new with new balls - I saw the same thing. Instant and easy wing ball in the corner.
People who never have played on brand new equipment never get a chance to see this phenomenon. Most people play in a pool hall. There, the cloth is worn, the balls are usually not the same size as well as worn down. Racks have dents in them so they aren't a perfect triangle. Spots aren't always placed exactly. Even a little tiny bit off makes a difference.
Because of this, the consistent wing ball on the break is this mystery to them. Pool hall tables have idiots who play on them and do the racking technique of raking the balls back and forth back and forth as if they are rolling dough till they think they line up with the spot. Working tracks into the cloth. Pros never do this. They set the balls in the rack, then push the rack forward once. That's because they've had a lifetime of experience and don't bother with unnecessary steps for racking. Economy of time, effort and motion.
Enter the magic rack and other template racking devices. These devices force the balls into a position where they touch one another and touch one another with the same tension (if that's the right word), which simulates perfect or brand new conditions. Not always perfect as can be if the balls are worn out or not all the same size, or the cloth is in very poor condition with severe dimples and tracks worn into them - but countless players have seen the power of a perfect rack. Novices can make the wing ball with regularity. Many players have gotten a taste of how sweet it is to break with a truly tight rack. The result? The masses have in recent years discovered that the 9-ball rack, under perfect conditions is as one AZB member says "a trick shot" ...it is. Perfect rack means wing ball all the time unless you screw up the break, but I'm not talking D players.
But notice another thing about the magic rack and other template racking devices. And this is a big one that goes largely unspoken...it's the positioning of the rack too. That little hole in the template is a precise thing to place exactly on the spot. The rack isn't back or forward from where it's suppose to be. It's much more precise than just looking at the one ball, which covers the whole spot from the racker's perspective. Only way to truly know is to view from the side, and see if it's dead on - and even then, it's hard to see if exact. Magic rack leads to greater rack placement. Consistency is key.
It's wrong to think that the touching and placement of the balls while racking is all equal. Meaning, some D player can do it as well as a pro. This isn't true - but many believe a good rack is a good rack regardless. Virtually everyone is guilty of not paying keen attention to rack placement. Yeah, it's mostly over the center of the spot, but is it just right? Is it? Are you sure? Who sits there in a pool hall and actually measures or closely inspects? No one does.
But if you play on a home table, you can do this. You can shine a flashlight under the 1-ball and see exactly how close the very base is to the center of the spot. This matters in my experience, because I experimented moving the rack up and down just slightly to where you can't really tell by looking at the rack from the side and I do feel it decreases/increase the wing ball pocketing percentage.
Another big mistake people make in their thinking is similar to what I mentioned above, that racking is something everyone can do equally...they don't. Pros not only have played the game more, made more balls, taken more shots, put in more hours - but they have also racked about 100x more than you have. That means, they've had a lot of practice racking and are real good at it. They're good at something that doesn't appear to require a whole lot of experience. Yet, watching pros rack I see a difference in the way they do it vs. how most amateurs do it. I'm not talking tricks, but care.
They take great care when they rack. This is often over looked, because people are looking for tricks instead of seeing the obvious. I don't think there are any tricks. The "tricks" is them taking great care to make the rack as consistent and perfect as they can given the conditions. This is based on the fact that a good rack will lead to them making the wing ball.
When I watch someone like Donny rack, I see him taking great care. It might not seem obvious, but he is putting more effort than most people do into racking it just right.
That's my observation. I don't see any super secret finger or hand techniques. You would think that after all these years, with all these videos and the ability to zoom in and go in slow-motion that someone would have detected or spotted some trick. So far, no one has detected a thing.
With ALL that said above....that's just one part of the greater picture. You still have to hit the rack exactly where it needs to be hit, and with the right speed for the conditions. That's by far the greater component. Step one is getting a good rack, step two, the biggie, is developing the precise cueing skills to hit the cue ball precisely where you want, so it goes where you want, and at the speed you want.
That's why Donny breaks so damn well. Control and consistency in racking and breaking. Donny, through his hard work in practice and high skills is killing and eliminating variables. Less variables, more predictability. Consistency.
Just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong. Feel free to ridicule me.
I think you're pretty much right. One possible disagreement is the perfect rack on new cloth. The 1 ball has to be hit at an angle to put more pressure on the same-side wing ball. The wing ball is not pointed at the corner pocket - the frozen kiss is pointed high of the pocket, so pressure has to be put on one side of the one ball if everything is racked perfect.
One thing to ask for is to play on a neutral table when playing anyone - it's just fair. If someone insists on only one table, then you're probably going to have a disadvantage in some regard. A neutral table and alternate practice racks, or a set time for practice, say 15 minutes each, is fair. And after the balls are racked, don't let them touch the balls with their fingers.
Chris
Wait a minute. I thought I was special. I've been doing this for years. Chris are you my long lost Greek twin brother?
Nick
Great post. Johnnyt
I really think the pros and good players should play 10-ball (15-ball really), but if it must be 9-ball this is all you need to make it fair. Exact spot placement, a Magic rack with an outline drawn on the cloth so no cocking or moving rack forward or back. Now if both don't make the wing ball one player needs to practice his/her break. Making the wing-ball with a MR is so easy a caveman can do it. Johnnyt
Italian, but close enough.
We're playing a ring game for quarters at Frank the Barber's house 10 ball, and he has a totally beautiful Brunswick Anniversay and the best of everything, and all he has is a K-Mart rack. The front slot was so big, there was about a 1/8" huge gap bewteen the two balls behind the one. this made the 10 ball fly at the hole and Frank made the 10 ball twice on the break and set up for a combo once in about the first 10 breaks.
I said "Frank, you have some masking tape?" He insists that he doesn't. I can tell he likes his racks loose. :wink: So now I just carry it.
Chris
Home court advantage(s) can be tough to fade. :groucho:
nope. racking is the only time the non shooting player has a chance to influence the game