Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
yep

Johns history is to take shortcuts and cheat. The table he ran his 400 on at Q-masters was a doctored table as the slate was sanded down and rounded over at the pockets.
760 makes the pockets really loose as it helps the balls to slide in on missed shots even easier than any other cloth.
Heated slate creates more speed and looseness of the pockets also.

Need educated anymore?
I only had retailed stores for 20 years and sold 15000 tables. Not to also count the many thousands and thousands of recovering and restoration of tables.

I can attest to the conditions Wrldpro is talking bout here at q-masters, the other facet I noticed besides the shaved slate in the 5 "corner pockets - was the pocket facings were dead - I guess it was set up this way for a reason? This table played like it had 8" gully pockets. To this day that table at q masters is the easiest 9' I ever saw live. So this may be a factor as to why they choose not to show their 'mystery tape' 626 to the open public. They know it may not pass inspection - once carefully scrutinized. So again - the table schmidt ran the 403 on in Virginia was a joke - was not a standard Gold Crown - it was seriously modified - way too easy for any professional standard. Since they won't release un edited footage - I can only assume the table there at easy street - was probly altered - similar to the one a q masters. If an object ball picks up speed when rolling into a corner pocket with dead facings - it's plain ol cheating.
 
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Meucciplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is a joke to accuse others they don't realize that it is easier nowadays to break a record. Sure we do.

Let's go back to the comparison with Jesse Owens. Should his WR stand today - or any of the world records set before him? Just because he used shoes, nutrition and other equipment differences that would more than equal the difference in equipments between Mosconi and JS?

Would Usain Bolt have to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day to even be considered an equal to Jesse?

That is where you get with that kind of argumentation.

Strangely enough, nobody stirs up the sh** saying Usain Bolt or Carl Lewis and any of the others since 1936 are just puppets who used equipment to their advantage .. thus making any record since invalid.

Yes, I certainly know that faster cloth, cleaner and better balls, a better cue and all that may well increase your chance of reaching 626 by a few percent at most. Does it make 626 a joke? Certainly not.

Unless there was some real cheating/breaking of the rules. Which we - at this time - have no proof of.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
It would be pretty funny if JS had some techies making an AI intro for the video... faked video footage of his detractors praising him and his run. I wonder if there’s enough video of several individuals for the AI to be able to replicate their facial movements and all. Maybe that’s what’s taking so long for the Big Reveal.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You're right about one thing, I've been around many tables, a lap or two. Sorry for your ignorance of the game of 14.1 Straight Pool Continuous. Been there, done that, Seen it all. Old but still knowledgeable. Pool parlors have counter beads to mark balls and games. Poor planning on JS team's account is no fault of anyone else. one thing about film frames. Individual frames will be laid upon one another for comparison. You can fake it but you cannot get away with faking it.

If you have made two laps around the table, then your high run is at least 504. What is it exactly?

You act is if you have seen the video based on your statements. How do you know if there was or was not a person keeping score on the screen in real time a long with John moving the coin? That was how it was done during the live streams.

I am not sure whether you guys believe he ran 626 but must have committed a foul at some point or if you think two runs were combined?

The offer is still open. I will pay $50 for someone from this thread to attend the viewing party in Santa Barba next week. I really believe when Chris Robinson says it is legit the non believers in this thread will call him a liar as you have others who have actually viewed the video. That would be sad because he is a well respected and immensely talented player who is sponsored by numerous companies.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for the nice post. I rarely play straight pool but enjoy the conversation. When you saw Mosconi play in exhibitions, did he normally keep running balls after the match was over or stop?

Are you saying that Mosconi never ended up with the cue ball in the rack so it had to go back to the kitchen? If so, would he or the referee have cleaned it at that point?


I never saw him keep running the balls after reaching whatever the match was to -- he just swiped and collected the balls and launched into his trick shots.

As to the last ball being in the rack area, I don't think I ever saw that either. You have to understand that Mosconi's style was not to nuke the rack on a break shot and spread them all around the table. He wanted to keep the balls down table because besides running balls he was also great at nudging and bumping balls around to create shots, open up clusters, and manufacture break balls. I think Mosconi would have thought that having to leave the last ball in the rack tantamount to having to shot a bank shot during a run. He just didn't need to do that kind of thing because his control of all the balls was so good.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is a joke to accuse others they don't realize that it is easier nowadays to break a record. Sure we do.

Let's go back to the comparison with Jesse Owens. Should his WR stand today - or any of the world records set before him? Just because he used shoes, nutrition and other equipment differences that would more than equal the difference in equipments between Mosconi and JS?

Would Usain Bolt have to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day to even be considered an equal to Jesse?

That is where you get with that kind of argumentation.

Strangely enough, nobody stirs up the sh** saying Usain Bolt or Carl Lewis and any of the others since 1936 are just puppets who used equipment to their advantage .. thus making any record since invalid.

Yes, I certainly know that faster cloth, cleaner and better balls, a better cue and all that may well increase your chance of reaching 626 by a few percent at most. Does it make 626 a joke? Certainly not.

Unless there was some real cheating/breaking of the rules. Which we - at this time - have no proof of.


I don't believe anyone thinks using the equipment of the day is an issue.

It's going beyond that to manufacture conditions for the specific purpose of breaking a record. The marathon thing we recently discussed comes to mind.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He seems to be in REALLY good company there, LMAO .

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=40338


Really?

Here's the key post from that thread:

Earlier in the day, Danny noticed 2 World Champions, One of them a "Hall of Famer", and both of them with their IPT Tour Cards (named earlier in this topic), get up on the table, with no shoes on and no foot touching the floor to execute a shot. Danny did not find a loop-hole, he made an observation.

For some reason there was no fuss made about these 2 circumstances.

All of a sudden, when Danny, has the same scenario occur, even after verifying with the ref if he was allowed to "giddy-up", the ref said yes but take off your shoes. Danny does execute the shot, which BTW he would make 90/100 with a bridge, gets up and makes the shot in a fashion he would make it 100/100, and all of a sudden APA SL 4's are calling him a cheat!!??

Somehow, somewhere in this minute (pronounced "my noot" for the illiterate) giddy-up shot, the fact that Danny Broke and ran 7 racks in one set, ran 5 in one and 4 in another, Oh yeah a 2-pack in another, which
SL 4's would think they could actually play if they ever put up a 2 pack, and played extremely well, has been tarnished.
Tuesday's story should have been about his stellar play against 5 IPT card Holders. But instead it is about a shameless attempt to break down Danny's focus. NEWSFLASH!!! Its gonna take more than that to phase him.

Danny goes to shake Johnny's hand and you know the rest from there.

The two guys mentioned but not named were Nick Varner and Jose Parica. The last comment refers to JA refusing to shake his hand.

Lou Figueroa
Boston Shorty below
 

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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The NDA signed, sealed and firmly in JS grasp will guarantee Robinson nor anyone else lets out a peep! Can't even spell respected, much less well respected. Are you Blind, too. Need to get away from that keyboard and enter the real world.

What would meet your standard of evidence, then?

Danny's Navy buddy,
L
O
L
?
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Lets face it, no run will ever be "good enough" for some people. There will always be something to nitpick. The rails are not bouncy enough, the cloth is not slow enough, the balls are not old and worn enough, the facings aren't cupped to reject balls etc....The way some people go on I think they are playing in a swamp, without aircondition, with rails without cloth, old mismatched balls and 3.5 inch pockets. Even if someone broke the record on such equipment it would never be enough. I say if WPA specs are met, then it should be ok. I don't think JS run will pass that test, though. For one, I think the pockets may be too large.

However, the only record broken here was the highest run on video. No need for anyone to put on a "sham" exhibition. Just run some balls in front of your friends, videotape it, and if you run more than JS, then you are the record holder. Fair is fair.
 

Philthepockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is a joke to accuse others they don't realize that it is easier nowadays to break a record. Sure we do.

Let's go back to the comparison with Jesse Owens. Should his WR stand today - or any of the world records set before him? Just because he used shoes, nutrition and other equipment differences that would more than equal the difference in equipments between Mosconi and JS?

Would Usain Bolt have to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day to even be considered an equal to Jesse?

That is where you get with that kind of argumentation.

Strangely enough, nobody stirs up the sh** saying Usain Bolt or Carl Lewis and any of the others since 1936 are just puppets who used equipment to their advantage .. thus making any record since invalid.

Yes, I certainly know that faster cloth, cleaner and better balls, a better cue and all that may well increase your chance of reaching 626 by a few percent at most. Does it make 626 a joke? Certainly not.

Unless there was some real cheating/breaking of the rules. Which we - at this time - have no proof of.

I don't believe there are any rules for this format.
 

Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Finally asked sensible question. I have no standard of evidence. The video will speak for itself. Squash the NDA . JS team already has about 50-60 attendees to speak out. Free them up without restriction. Anything goes. Time is on everyone's side. :wink::bow-down::bow-down::bow-down:

Hey skippy, where did you get the NDA info, here on AZ?
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
Finally asked sensible question. I have no standard of evidence. The video will speak for itself. Squash the NDA . JS team already has about 50-60 attendees to speak out. Free them up without restriction. Anything goes. Time is on everyone's side. :wink::bow-down::bow-down::bow-down:
The NDA was a joke making fun of the humorless gullible posters here...so sorry.

Sent from the future.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Thank you

Well, I wasn't really trying to draw a direct line between Mosconi's run and JS'.

I was really talking about how, in general, most 14.1 players feel about the game and its tenets. But OK, let's talk about Mosconi.

Mosconi was a 15 time world champion. He played in an era during which the players wore tuxedos and 14.1 was held in such high regard that tournament results made the front page of newspapers. And in that milieu, the rules of the game were considered the rules, with referees to call all fouls. IOWs, Mosconi spent a career abiding by a strict code of conduct, behavior, and play. Fouls were not something to be committed or ignored.

There are several of us here that saw Mosconi play, albeit in an exhibition, and I'll go out on a limb and say that to a man they will all agree with the following: Every time I saw Mosconi he would always run at least 100. He would always be dressed in coat and tie. When shooting over a ball or using a mechanical bridge he always took care to not foul. When reaching out over the table, he would always button his jacket to avoid fouling any balls. I never saw Mosconin pick up the CB during a run. And, he never had the balls cleaned (either by hand, much less in a ball polisher), during a run. And on the night he ran the 526 he had a referee (and a racker) watching. He also had an audience that, given the time frame, was probably knowledgeable about 14.1 and it's traditions. Lastly, Mosconi was representing the Brunswick Corporation and knew he had to represent the game at the highest of standards in his play and conduct.

So in my book, Mosconi gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to those issues.

Now, I have also watched many of JS' runs, during some of which he has fouled, picked up the CB, and put the balls in a ball polisher mid-run. There is also the issue of how he went about this whole thing, going at it for months at a time rather than walking into a strange pool room and doing it on a single attempt in front of a paying audience, but I digress.

In my mind, the bottomline is: JS does not get the benefit of the doubt and we gotta go to the tape.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks for this response Lou, even if a similar 'claim' was made from a player I was friendly with - I would call them up and ask em to send me a copy - and I'm sure it would not be an issue, after and only after I had viewed the tape - would I truly congratulate them. Hiding the evidence will only add more doubt for team schmidt (charlie williams /bca). As I stated before Kipchoge new world record holder in marathon - did at least share his bouncy shoes and God given talent with the public. I guess the term ' the good guys don't hide' - is very relevant here.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lets face it, no run will ever be "good enough" for some people. There will always be something to nitpick. The rails are not bouncy enough, the cloth is not slow enough, the balls are not old and worn enough, the facings aren't cupped to reject balls etc....The way some people go on I think they are playing in a swamp, without aircondition, with rails without cloth, old mismatched balls and 3.5 inch pockets. Even if someone broke the record on such equipment it would never be enough. I say if WPA specs are met, then it should be ok. I don't think JS run will pass that test, though. For one, I think the pockets may be too large.

However, the only record broken here was the highest run on video. No need for anyone to put on a "sham" exhibition. Just run some balls in front of your friends, videotape it, and if you run more than JS, then you are the record holder. Fair is fair.


You forgot the part that goes: "Just run some balls in front of your friends, video tape it..." and release so people can confirm its legit.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for this response Lou, even if a similar 'claim' was made from a player I was friendly with - I would call them up and ask em to send me a copy - and I'm sure it would not be an issue, after and only after I had viewed the tape - would I truly congratulate them. Hiding the evidence will only add more doubt for team schmidt (charlie williams /bca). As I stated before Kipchoge new world record holder in marathon - did at least share his bouncy shoes and God given talent with the public. I guess the term ' the good guys don't hide' - is very relevant here.


It is what it is, Danny.

Until unedited video is released there's no run for me and many others that care about the game. He probably did it but without video there will always be reasonable doubt.

And for those that say this ongoing conversation is just free PR for JS, I say no. The longer it goes on the only thing that strengthens and grows is the case for doubt about the legitimacy of the run.

Lou Figueroa
 

Maxx

AzB Platinum Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The NDA was a joke making fun of the humorless gullible posters here...so sorry.

Sent from the future.

Yea, I asked because last year I was being sarcastic and posted about a NDA in one of these threads. I figured it might be a hit with the flat-earthers.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The NDA signed, sealed and firmly in JS grasp will guarantee Robinson nor anyone else lets out a peep! ...

Exactly what are you talking about in terms of an NDA? I can see that John might get viewers to agree to not surreptitiously record anything from the run during the viewing. But beyond that, no.
 
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