Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

xradarx

Tell it like it is
Silver Member
Wysiwyg

Hey, he only talks to people who fully agree with him. Everyone else is blocked. :grin-square:

I agree. Him and Schmidt are similar in other ways aside from straight pool abilities. I do wish Danny had responded to some of my posts though. Oh well.

Funny because you seem to be the one hurling all of the insults.

A fact unnoticed by no one.
Balls in your court. :slap::thud::thud: :killingme::killingme:
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
memories

This brought back a memory...small town north of Little Rock...1985
...last time I played on a ‘doctored’ table...most of these were from the 20s and 30s...
...the corner pockets were at least 5.25....and the slate was altered so balls would drop...
(This was a product of the old system of payment...by the game rather than table time)
...easy tables made for quicker games.

Can’t recall a shot I didn’t feel like going for....won a few bucks with the owner...
..if Willie played a game in there, he might not’ve missed for a week



Some of the old nine and ten foot tables I played on had side pockets sticking out into the table. A very slow rolled ball down the rail would fall into a side pocket. It got to be one of the first things I checked on a strange table. Never knew when it would come in handy!

Hu
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
No tape = what I thought

I actually hope now that they never produce any evidence of the 626, it has been almost a year since they made this 'claim' so I think most people real eyes' it was some sort of promotional joke or poorly attempted p.r stunt. Schmidt will never be on the same page as Willie Mosconi, he is good shot maker - but his free wheel patterns lose a few spokes - particularly on tight equipment. If bca was tryin to help us keep in touch with our 14.1 past - thay' should have chosen another path, associating schmidtty's pr stunt (with hidden evidence) in the same room with Mosconi's - officail 526 was a mistake Mosconi would have run over him on the 5x10 like a penny on the train track.

Note to bca,nytimers, and facebook puppets - please refrain from associating Straight Pool with yer drive by news agenda in the future - for any reason. Maybe bca learned a lesson bout honesty - maybe not?

Thanks for the honest posts.
 
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Black-Balled

He Rides the Skies
Silver Member
Oh, NOW you hope it never gets released?! mmkay

For the upteenth time: nobody thinks John is better than Willie.

On the other side, now everybody knows you're beyond flaky.



I actually hope now that they never produce any evidence of the 626, it has been almost a year since they made this 'claim' so I think most people real eyes' it was some sort of promotional joke or poorly attempted p.r stunt. Schmidt will never be on the same page as Willie Mosconi, he is good shot maker - but his free wheel patterns lose a few spokes - particularly on tight equipment. If bca was tryin to help us keep in touch with our 14.1 past - thay' should have chosen another player who has more class. schmidtty ain't the correct choice - Mosconi would have run over him on the 5x10 like a penny on the train track.

Note to bca,nytimers, and facebook puppets - please refrain from associating Straight Pool with yer drive by news agenda in the future - for any reason. Maybe bca learned a lesson bout honesty - maybe not?

Thanks for the honest posts.
 

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I actually hope now that they never produce any evidence of the 626, it has been almost a year since they made this 'claim' so I think most people real eyes' it was some sort of promotional joke or poorly attempted p.r stunt. Schmidt will never be on the same page as Willie Mosconi, he is good shot maker - but his free wheel patterns lose a few spokes - particularly on tight equipment. If bca was tryin to help us keep in touch with our 14.1 past - thay' should have chosen another player who has more class. schmidtty ain't the correct choice - Mosconi would have run over him on the 5x10 like a penny on the train track.

Note to bca,nytimers, and facebook puppets - please refrain from associating Straight Pool with yer drive by news agenda in the future - for any reason. Maybe bca learned a lesson bout honesty - maybe not?

Thanks for the honest posts.

Maybe the big problem here is just a translation issue. If just over 8 months constitutes a year in your world how does 626 translate in the real world? Maybe our 626 is more like 880 your world. Damn. I with you, I want I see the video!!
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Silver Member
I get asked all the time do I believe Schmidt ran over 600. Again I want to believe he did.
John has said he wanted the run to help the pool industry and talked it up but I honestly dont see how it helped at all even for himself a few bread crumbs he is collecting here and there. John has the biggest ego probably of anyone I've ever met and to think he is on a pedestal and to have people give him attention makes him feel rich enough. For the sake of pool I really hope he did run over 600 and it's legit as if not than it will go down as one of the biggest hustles ever known.
The few things that are bother some is that he took every angle to make an advantage even to attempt to make high runs.
Big loose pocket table
760 Simonis
A special rack
Heaters under the table to heat the slate
Pulling the balls off the table and polishing them many times after a run has already started
Vacuuming and cleaning the cloth after a run started
Having a person nearby to help on shot decisions
Etc.
These are abnormal situations that have NEVER been done on anyone's else's high runs.
So if I set up a table and make any conditions I want and run 1000 will it be an official record even without inspection of the table and conditions I created non- standard?
 
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DTL

SP 219
Silver Member
I actually hope now that they never produce any evidence of the 626, it has been almost a year since they made this 'claim' so I think most people real eyes' it was some sort of promotional joke or poorly attempted p.r stunt. Schmidt will never be on the same page as Willie Mosconi, he is good shot maker - but his free wheel patterns lose a few spokes - particularly on tight equipment. If bca was tryin to help us keep in touch with our 14.1 past - thay' should have chosen another player who has more class. schmidtty ain't the correct choice - Mosconi would have run over him on the 5x10 like a penny on the train track.

Note to bca,nytimers, and facebook puppets - please refrain from associating Straight Pool with yer drive by news agenda in the future - for any reason. Maybe bca learned a lesson bout honesty - maybe not?

Thanks for the honest posts.

IMO his (and Mosconi's) fast'nloose, free-wheeling style is why he can run 400+ balls, what, 7 times? And why your slowish, methodical style will only occasionally render a 300+ run (once or twice?).....despite you being one of the best, most knowledgable 14.1 players on the planet :rolleyes:.
 
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ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Any time something special is claimed to happen, especially a new world record,
and you did not get to personally watch it happen, seems completely reasonable
to want to see the evidentiary video proof since mere words & descriptions are not
as reliable nowadays as years gone by.

Well, then.. Seems as if Danny needs to shell out his money and go to one of John's viewings, if he is really that concerned about the legitimacy of the run.

If he doesn't wish to do so, then it's really not all that important to him, and it's just about tearing down John. (Which is what it is actually about.)
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, then.. Seems as if Danny needs to shell out his money and go to one of John's viewings, if he is really that concerned about the legitimacy of the run.

If he doesn't wish to do so, then it's really not all that important to him, and it's just about tearing down John. (Which is what it is actually about.)

I agree that if someone is truly worried about the run being up to their standards, they should make the trip and see the vid.

Thing is, I don't know even one person that's willing to pay for:

Fight there and back
Hotel room
Rental car
Eats and miscellaneous cost
Lets not forget the $50 to view

I would love to see it, but I checked and it was gonna cost north of $1,500.

It's a double edged sword.......John can't venture to far and still make money.....at the same time, most 14.1 enthusiasts aren't willing to pay anywhere near that much to see his run.

I wouldn't pay even close to that even if he had ran 1500 balls......nope.

And for those reasons, I honestly don't see how he will ever make anything other than a marginal profit at best.

I still say he would be better off financially to get dvd's out and keep doing private viewings because most all 14.1 enthusiasts are willing to pay for a private viewing "if" they don't have to fly or drive really long distances.

Like other have said, I believe the hourglass has about run out of sand.....

Jeff
 

Marc

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Silver Member
If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marc lots of differences. Yes the players of today are great for sure. If the guys of today played on the equipment from 80 years ago especially the clay mud balls and cloth that didn't move the cue ball around very easily Mosconi would heist most of todays players at 14.1 any other games the players of today would have a decent change of beating the shit out of Willie at other games but Willie would never give up ever for sure. A great comment recently said by Sigel was after hearing Schmidt ran over 600 he said wow that's a lot of balls. After hearing only that John was playing on 760 Simonis he said well that makes a big difference and if Mosconi was in his prime and had 760 simonis he might have ran 2000. That goes to say also not counting all the other non standard advantages John made possibly in his so called run. Also to note it has been said John didn't have the first 200 balls of his run on video. Any people that see the video have to sign a (NDA) non disclosure agreement and if they talk about the video John can sue them for a million dollars. WOWZERS>>>>>
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi, posting here just to type at something.

625, 626, 768

Anybody noe summoer numbers? I have a problem not G(ing) AF. Actually the problem is articulating that sentiment into a paragraph or two. Let's see,

1) I sincerely find it admirable that JS, DH, anybody else for that matter can pocket balls in numbers beyond my counting ability.

2) That ventured, records be they personal accomplishment or otherwise tell nothing of the quality of accomplishment; one of my peeves about the genre. I think the aesthetics of a solo straight pool run, that is with no one waiting in the chair, is everything. Was it sloppy? Crude? Elegant? 50% elegant? As far as I can tell there is only a number to indicate it even was.

3) rinse, repeat...

Oh schitt I dogged it. There will be other attempts...
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Marc lots of differences. Yes the players of today are great for sure. If the guys of today played on the equipment from 80 years ago especially the clay mud balls and cloth that didn't move the cue ball around very easily Mosconi would heist most of todays players at 14.1 any other games the players of today would have a decent change of beating the shit out of Willie at other games but Willie would never give up ever for sure. A great comment recently said by Sigel was after hearing Schmidt ran over 600 he said wow that's a lot of balls. After hearing only that John was playing on 760 Simonis he said well that makes a big difference and if Mosconi was in his prime and had 760 simonis he might have ran 2000. That goes to say also not counting all the other non standard advantages John made possibly in his so called run. Also to note it has been said John didn't have the first 200 balls of his run on video. Any people that see the video have to sign a (NDA) non disclosure agreement and if they talk about the video John can sue them for a million dollars. WOWZERS>>>>>

Putting the player and equipment comparison aside, I'm :shocked2: to know that anyone would sign such an agreement to the tune of $1,000,000.

I always thought when someone said "pool nuts" that it was just a phrase, nothing more. Well, now it's been confirmed, there are players that are actually "completely nuts".

My hat is off to John. Not so much for the run anymore, no...it's due to the fact that he actually got people to sign the NDA for a million dollars. He would make a great salesman.

Did you see my post about me checking on the cost for my wife and I flying out to see John's vid? Well, for the round trip tickets, rental cars, hotel room, eats, some pocket change and let's not for the $50 each to see the vid, it was a little over $1,500.

I checked several places and $1,500 was the cheapest by $300 with one place being over 2k and a couple more being $1,800ish.

Jeff:rolleyes: and then:rotflmao:
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
they aren't even trying

If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good

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Out of all the people you named, not one plays shape as well as Willie once did before his health issues. In truth, like me before I watched a young healthy Willie on video, they aren't even trying to. Pick a game, any game, and take ball in hand after every shot. That was the level of advantage Mr Mosconi had on a good day!

Hu
 

Meucciplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The "NDA" is a sign how well people read threads and how easy it is to start all kinds of the wildest conspiracy theories. Several people have mentioned that the whole NDA bullshit has been brought up in another thread by a joker. But now it is being used over and over to discredit JS' run.

I got a new one for you: John Schmidt tells anyone criticizing his run after watching his video to send the Russian Mafia and get him killed. Yeah, let's see if that one gets picked up until next year, next old thread ....

It would be nice if the "critics" would at least read the threads before they spread total garbage.

April Fools' Day daily here in this thread ...
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
Marc lots of differences. Yes the players of today are great for sure. If the guys of today played on the equipment from 80 years ago especially the clay mud balls and cloth that didn't move the cue ball around very easily Mosconi would heist most of todays players at 14.1 any other games the players of today would have a decent change of beating the shit out of Willie at other games but Willie would never give up ever for sure. A great comment recently said by Sigel was after hearing Schmidt ran over 600 he said wow that's a lot of balls. After hearing only that John was playing on 760 Simonis he said well that makes a big difference and if Mosconi was in his prime and had 760 simonis he might have ran 2000. That goes to say also not counting all the other non standard advantages John made possibly in his so called run. Also to note it has been said John didn't have the first 200 balls of his run on video. Any people that see the video have to sign a (NDA) non disclosure agreement and if they talk about the video John can sue them for a million dollars. WOWZERS>>>>>
Again with the NDA? You 3 have become a parady of yourselves.

There was no NDA.

The incessant "break rules" is also persistent non-relevent nonsense. Mosconi's run was the last 150 of a 200 point match so it obviously didn't start with an opening break.

Sent from the future.
 

4pointer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i am from germany and 30 years ago ive played in the same division with engert and some other good straight pool players .
i would say i know something about the history of straight pool .
ive seen some of schmidts 400s , everything fine with it
big pockets like in the ol days .
fast cloth , not my preference , but ok .
comparing 860 to 760 , to me 860 is easier to play .
heated/sanded slate i dont know .
i would choose mosconis table for a record attempt .
and i dont believe that sigel made a statement like on 760 mosconi 2000 balls .

by the way ....who is danny harriman ???
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO his (and Mosconi's) fast'nloose, free-wheeling style is why he can run 400+ balls, what, 7 times? And why your slowish, methodical style will only occasionally render a 300+ run (once or twice?).....despite you being one of the best, most knowledgable 14.1 players on the planet :rolleyes:.


I disagree.

In Mosconi's case, he was just ungodly talented. He shot fast because his depth of talent allowed him to do so.

In JS case, he shoots quickly because, more often than not, he is shooting under conditions (like frequently polishing the balls) where the balls open *way* up. With the balls spread *wide* open every rack it's easier to just plink away.

Now, if were talking about normal conditions, with the balls opening less and less as the run conditions change and become tougher, then I'm betting on DH because his more studious, measured style is perfect for working the rack and the balls when the going gets tough.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good






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Not a one is a better 14.1 player than Mosconi.

Lou Figueroa
 
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