Is the National Billiards League legit, or a scam?

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is exactly why pool never goes anywhere. We are programmed to create controversy over the simplest of common senses. Who is the idiot asking where the money goes? 100% of the entry fees go upstream to the main event. How dumb do you have to be not to understand that? Regardless of where the money goes, there will be people getting paid to work this Pro Tour as well. We have idiots that can't grasp that people get paid for working, and until EVERYONE here on AZ Billiards understands that people get paid for working maybe we'll have positive and accusative progression for the Sport in the United States.

Calling people idiots is an excellent marketing technique.

I remember that time I asked the salesman at a TV store about the resolution of a TV I was looking at. He called me an idiot, so I bought three of them.
 

billb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Calling people idiots is an excellent marketing technique.

I remember that time I asked the salesman at a TV store about the resolution of a TV I was looking at. He called me an idiot, so I bought three of them.
I just spit my drink out when I read this response. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: You sir are hilarious.

Thanks for the compliment Jay!!!
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My son is playing in one of these qualifiers, $150 entry fee, they only got 14 players. Which is not surprising considering that is about the number of higher ranked players that have a chance to get close to the finals in one of these things where I am. If they actually paid out top 8 players I bet they would have gotten a lot more since after those 14 there are probably another 20 that have a chance to get into top 8.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
and the way it is setup, it only gets close to making sense to play is if it is a short field. why would anyone compete against many when you can fight just a few.

this thing has so many holes in it swiss cheeze may have to change its name.
 

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
if the wording hasnt changed then all the idiots are not relegated to az.
My sentiments exactly...If a businessman is not sensible and reasonable enough to listen to his market and adapt, I don't think that I want to partner up with him.
 

Patrick53212

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread is exactly why pool never goes anywhere. We are programmed to create controversy over the simplest of common senses. Who is the idiot asking where the money goes? 100% of the entry fees go upstream to the main event. How dumb do you have to be not to understand that? Regardless of where the money goes, there will be people getting paid to work this Pro Tour as well. We have idiots that can't grasp that people get paid for working, and until EVERYONE here on AZ Billiards understands that people get paid for working maybe we'll have positive and accusative progression for the Sport in the United States.
LoL...."Pro Tour"....😂😂😂😂
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seems to me to be an easy matter of marketing and price points. For example, $100.00 is a strong price point. Even though people know better sales prove that $99 generates a lot more sales than $100 on a retail item. $200 is another strong price point but not nearly as strong as $100. $150? A fairly weak price point. How many people will pay a $150 entry and won't pay $175 or $185? Dedicate every penny of the money above $150 to cash payouts. Pay first and second the same cash payout and make the prize package for first place negotiable paper, the winner can transfer his package to someone else.

With a full field the first couple places make a little, the rest of the top eight don't feel like total suckers. If there are calcuttas and/or other added money to be split up fine, but other than permitting them where legal, the NBT has zero to do with these things as it always had. Pretending that side cash has anything to do with the NBT is what has people crying foul, quite justifiably I believe!

Tournament directors and venue owners should be fairly compensated. Often the same pool players that are unhappy about being poorly compensated think that others should receive nothing! Any group that expects these people to be compensated little or nothing is doomed to fail. The NPT might consider reducing the total payout on the national events to $150,000 and having enough funds to compensate local players, TD's, and venues.

Hu
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, they finally had the 1st qualifier in my area. Hate to say it but it wasn't too promising. A month ago the TD was saying only a few spots left but the day arrives and only 17 players. I think there were a number of people who said they'd play but never showed up. Another no show was the TD. Apparently she resigned a couple weeks ago. Not a great loss as quite a few of the better players won't play in anything she runs.

Anyway the turnout is pretty disappointing considering there's at least 50+ players within 100-150 miles who could've played. What Ed was hoping (that the players would turn out and support this) didn't happen. He really needs to ask himself why and come up with a new strategy. If the same thing happens everywhere he's pretty much dead in the water.
As I've said previously he can't know everyone everywhere and has to rely on word of mouth to get the TD's. IMO the right TD's are the only way this thing has a chance.

As to what did happen at the qualifier.
They decided to have a sidepot with everyone putting in 50. A couple people may have declined so they had around 7-800 to distribute. I didn't stay so don't know how it was distributed. Basically the entry fee was 200 instead of 150. I'm kind of at a loss for words here, it's depressing. Have to go back to the TD choice.
The right TD and the results would have been much different (I think).

As expected, one of the 2 favorites won. 2nd was a little unexpected. Good young player but lacks the position and decision making skills to win something like this.
Actually, other than the top 2 favorites the field was on the weak side compared to what it could have been. Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
If it continues, obviously he needs a new TD. Hopefully he chooses the right one.

Before posting this I checked NBLUSA.com. No changes for months. Every location you click on says "Jan. spots available" when it's almost March. I clicked on 6 of the TD's facebook links and found nothing about the NBL and I went back to the beginning of the year. Also, a lot of the venues are open, have been open and facebook pages are advertising local tourneys, leagues, etc. but not one word about the NBL qualifiers. Colorado says their 1st one is Mar. 21st and 5 people are signed up.

What does Ed expect with this stuff going on and no updated info on his own website.
 

Beansie

New member
This thread is exactly why pool never goes anywhere. We are programmed to create controversy over the simplest of common senses. Who is the idiot asking where the money goes? 100% of the entry fees go upstream to the main event. How dumb do you have to be not to understand that? Regardless of where the money goes, there will be people getting paid to work this Pro Tour as well. We have idiots that can't grasp that people get paid for working, and until EVERYONE here on AZ Billiards understands that people get paid for working maybe we'll have positive and accusative progression for the Sport in the United States.

Hey Goldy!

You getting paid to be so abrasive to someone questioning the NBL? If yes, maybe you should take a long walk. If no, maybe you should take a chill pill. Either way.. you may be the "idiot/dumb/can't read" (your words, not mine) if you can't do simple math or have a conversation on this forum without resorting to insulting people.

And talking about things people don't understand.. what the hell is this advertisement in your signature. It takes up more room than your post.

B.

Ohhh.. I see it now. It took a minute but I got it. Goldy IS getting paid. His company does the live streams for the NBL and for Ed's pool hall, Sandcastle Billiards. Kind of a douche move if you ask me Goldy.. a smart man (which you are obviously not) would have realized the conflict of interest in the conversation and taken a walk (or at least not have been so abrasive). But not you. An even smarter man (again.. that's not you... not even close) would have realized that the giant logo in your signature is the same giant logo on the sign up pages for live streams on the NBL and Sandcastle websites. The icing on the cake is your "Goldy" moniker everywhere in the live streams. Looks like you're the only dumb idiot here.

B.
 

Patrick53212

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ohhh.. I see it now. It took a minute but I got it. Goldy IS getting paid. His company does the live streams for the NBL and for Ed's pool hall, Sandcastle Billiards. Kind of a douche move if you ask me Goldy.. a smart man (which you are obviously not) would have realized the conflict of interest in the conversation and taken a walk (or at least not have been so abrasive). But not you. An even smarter man (again.. that's not you... not even close) would have realized that the giant logo in your signature is the same giant logo on the sign up pages for live streams on the NBL and Sandcastle websites. The icing on the cake is your "Goldy" moniker everywhere in the live streams. Looks like you're the only dumb idiot here.

B.
Zach "Goldy" Goldsmith - Pro Grifter
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
This thread is exactly why pool never goes anywhere. We are programmed to create controversy over the simplest of common senses. Who is the idiot asking where the money goes? 100% of the entry fees go upstream to the main event. How dumb do you have to be not to understand that? Regardless of where the money goes, there will be people getting paid to work this Pro Tour as well. We have idiots that can't grasp that people get paid for working, and until EVERYONE here on AZ Billiards understands that people get paid for working maybe we'll have positive and accusative progression for the Sport in the United States.
What we have here is an early candidate for worst post of the year in 2021.

The original poster had a bad experience and shared it. In post 61, Ed Liddawi conceded that the NBL website was vague and that it had contributed to miscommunication, but that things were cleared up at the tournament site, as if that's even close to good enough when someone has driven hours to attend the event, In post 55, Ed made it clear that modified terminology would be added to the website to make it clearer, but patrons of the NBL say that this hasn't happened and that the website hasn't been modified in months.

Most members here were appalled when advised of the facts concerning the payout structure, and none of us have ever seen Calcutta money included in the added money, as it was in the misleading event writeups. Added money means money added by the event producer/sponsor, not money added by the participants.

In your lame attempt to call the members of this forum ignorant, you have offered an iron clad case for your own ignorance.
 

JMiller1975

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just thought I'd give an update. Checked the NBL website and it looks like nothing has changed after 3 months. That's too bad as it would have been nice if something like this worked...
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it about time for the first main event? I forgot if the field for the main has been filled from the qualifiers? Or still more qualifiers remain?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, they finally had the 1st qualifier in my area. Hate to say it but it wasn't too promising. A month ago the TD was saying only a few spots left but the day arrives and only 17 players. I think there were a number of people who said they'd play but never showed up. Another no show was the TD. Apparently she resigned a couple weeks ago. Not a great loss as quite a few of the better players won't play in anything she runs.

Anyway the turnout is pretty disappointing considering there's at least 50+ players within 100-150 miles who could've played. What Ed was hoping (that the players would turn out and support this) didn't happen. He really needs to ask himself why and come up with a new strategy. If the same thing happens everywhere he's pretty much dead in the water.
As I've said previously he can't know everyone everywhere and has to rely on word of mouth to get the TD's. IMO the right TD's are the only way this thing has a chance.

As to what did happen at the qualifier.
They decided to have a sidepot with everyone putting in 50. A couple people may have declined so they had around 7-800 to distribute. I didn't stay so don't know how it was distributed. Basically the entry fee was 200 instead of 150. I'm kind of at a loss for words here, it's depressing. Have to go back to the TD choice.
The right TD and the results would have been much different (I think).

As expected, one of the 2 favorites won. 2nd was a little unexpected. Good young player but lacks the position and decision making skills to win something like this.
Actually, other than the top 2 favorites the field was on the weak side compared to what it could have been
. Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
If it continues, obviously he needs a new TD. Hopefully he chooses the right one.

Before posting this I checked NBLUSA.com. No changes for months. Every location you click on says "Jan. spots available" when it's almost March. I clicked on 6 of the TD's facebook links and found nothing about the NBL and I went back to the beginning of the year. Also, a lot of the venues are open, have been open and facebook pages are advertising local tourneys, leagues, etc. but not one word about the NBL qualifiers. Colorado says their 1st one is Mar. 21st and 5 people are signed up.

What does Ed expect with this stuff going on and no updated info on his own website.

The second place guy was my son :) He has been going on a tear in the area, he placed second twice in a row in a tournament, then won two in a row with several 7/8th spots around that.

You are right about some of his decision making, a lot of times I see much better shots than what he takes. But he did come in second in that tough field, and has beaten some of the top players even after that.

Entry fee was a bit high to get more players, with a pretty nebulous future for this and also the payout structure. Like I said in my post, if they actually paid top 8 spots from the tournament money, they would have had another 10-20 players show up.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
The problem with calcutta money, at least in the calcuttas I have seen, big spending gamblers get to come in and bid. In one respect it sounds like their bid is adding to the calcutta but when the top four or five players are bought by outsiders it is almost a given that these outside bidders are going to take the sweet top of the calcutta. They inflate the cost of the bids so then a top player may have to pay three or four thousand for half of themselves. To even get a shot at the calcutta money increases these players entry about $3000 give or take. Now the entry fee is at the nose bleed level with no guarantee of cashing. Of course many players simply don't have the cash to buy their half and either leave it on the table or use a backer to buy their half so their part of the Calcutta is down to 25%

Calcuttas are one of the best deals in gambling so outsiders are the ones that profit most! I believe that outsiders take more out of a calcutta than they put in, especially in bigger events. Do we limit calcuttas to players only? Maybe sidepots where each player that chooses to get in pays the same amount and only players are allowed in these side pots, of course no way to tell if they are using a backer.

The first calcutta I ever saw was at a match track for horses. It was ran different than I have ever seen since. Each horse, with four to six in a race, sometimes only two, was auctioned turn after turn. The auctioneer knew the horses and owners he was dealing with so this affected where the betting started at, maybe twenty or fifty a horse. If they couldn't get a bet on all horses the bet size went down. Around and around it went until nobody was betting or not enough people. The odds were the number of horses in the race minus the one you were betting so with five to one odds it could make sense to bet on a dog so you could keep getting money on the horse you wanted to bet. Would this work in pool? I don't think so because all players performance is too well known. Might give it a try though.

I don't know about this horse style calcutta. Can't hardly be worse than spending five or six hours running the calcuttas we have now.

Hu
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The problem with calcutta money, at least in the calcuttas I have seen, big spending gamblers get to come in and bid. In one respect it sounds like their bid is adding to the calcutta but when the top four or five players are bought by outsiders it is almost a given that these outside bidders are going to take the sweet top of the calcutta. They inflate the cost of the bids so then a top player may have to pay three or four thousand for half of themselves. To even get a shot at the calcutta money increases these players entry about $3000 give or take. Now the entry fee is at the nose bleed level with no guarantee of cashing. Of course many players simply don't have the cash to buy their half and either leave it on the table or use a backer to buy their half so their part of the Calcutta is down to 25%

Calcuttas are one of the best deals in gambling so outsiders are the ones that profit most! I believe that outsiders take more out of a calcutta than they put in, especially in bigger events. Do we limit calcuttas to players only? Maybe sidepots where each player that chooses to get in pays the same amount and only players are allowed in these side pots, of course no way to tell if they are using a backer.

The first calcutta I ever saw was at a match track for horses. It was ran different than I have ever seen since. Each horse, with four to six in a race, sometimes only two, was auctioned turn after turn. The auctioneer knew the horses and owners he was dealing with so this affected where the betting started at, maybe twenty or fifty a horse. If they couldn't get a bet on all horses the bet size went down. Around and around it went until nobody was betting or not enough people. The odds were the number of horses in the race minus the one you were betting so with five to one odds it could make sense to bet on a dog so you could keep getting money on the horse you wanted to bet. Would this work in pool? I don't think so because all players performance is too well known. Might give it a try though.

I don't know about this horse style calcutta. Can't hardly be worse than spending five or six hours running the calcuttas we have now.

Hu
In our tournaments in which we have a Calcutta (our weekly tournament as well as our bigger tournaments) only the participating players are allowed to bid / buy in the Calcutta auction.

Additionally, in our bigger tournaments, generally only our regular weekly tournament players that have supported our weekly tournaments at least to some level of regularity are allowed to play.
 
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