Is the RENO OPEN dying?

Maybe another casino will do an event in the Summer. Never know.. it might happen.

IMO, the Sands is getting old... new blood is needed to run/promote/sponsor and a new venue is MUST.
 
Pool is not dying, but does need to make some adjustments to coincide with the current global economic situation.

There are more regional tours than ever before and more opportunity to play than I have seen in 15+ years. The calendar is so heavy with tournament play on a local and regional level that scheduling in fact is a challenge for everyone. That is a lot of people working hard on behalf of the sport and others who equally love it.

As far as the comment about working together, some do and some don't. But there are many in the industry who work hard together for the best of everyone as much as possible: Personally, I have found the regional tour organizers beginning to support the NCS by passing on the qualifier information to their list of players. As we work to get the word out, more and more people have stepped up to offer assistance towards building a national series of events, the first being the NCS 8-Ball Championship.

The Reno Open had a tremendous group of talented players, many of which are some of the best of the west: George Micheals, the father and son team of Ernesto and Oscar Dominguez, Raphael Martinez, Corey Harper, Arturo Rivera, Utah pool room owner Ace Brown, just to name a few.

As far as the spectator numbers: I honestly do not have personal experience seeing the difference, but I suspect that the ease of being able to see matches via online streaming as well as the time of year of the event came into play for the numbers not appearing to be so strong. I was only there Monday - Wednesday, however it is just before the holidays and in one of the toughest periods economically than the US has experienced in over 30 years.

I think of the old saying about do you see your glass half full or half empty. Well the glass is still half full in my mind, but we may sometimes have to share the cup a bit.
 
I would say the economy is in the,
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and a very good example is a gentleman I know runs a little pool cue repair business out of his garage. He also sell cues, and Cases under 75.00. He is retired so this is not his only income, but he does have a large investment in machinery, etc. Saw him today, and asked how thing are going with his business, his statement was "PEOPLE ARE HOLDING ON TO THEIR MONEY", and he does TIP REPLACEMENT which included Shaft & Ferrule Cleaning with a LePro TIP for $7.00
 
wahcheck said:
We were talking on another thread about how interest in the Reno Open had gone downhill for pro level participants, but coupled with the economy and what Indian Casinos in California have done to the gambling business in Reno, I suspect the Sands Regency Casino may be on its last legs too. I had to cancel the trip this time up there myself, but in viewing the live stream by Mike of AZB, the bleacher seats appeared to be very sparsely occupied, more so than ever before......Can anyone who was/is up there confirm that attendance was very much down?
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I went to my first Reno Open in June of 1998. It used to be held twice a year. There were about 250 players in that first tournament. I went back in December and there were over 300 players. At that time the tourney started on Wed. and the entry fee was $100. Most of the people running the event were volunteers. On Thursday night it could be hard to find a good seat to watch matches. It started changing when they moved the start to Tue. One more day people would have to miss work. Then different people started running it. I went to the tournament last year and on Friday night there were maybe 30 people in the stands. This tournament used to draw almost all of the top players, especially the Phillipinos. I didn't go this year. I miss the way it was.
 
I am in the travel business, and I can tell you all of travel is off, and considerably so. Even the wealthy are cancelling trips or just staying home. It's temporary. We've seen it before. Travel is a luxury commodity and optional. When the economy is doing poorly, travel declines. When people have lost money on homes, businesses, retirement accounts, and investments, as has been the case with this unfortunate economy, they don't feel much like traveling.

Chris
 
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ugotactionTX said:
Not sure what you meant by "down the road" since The Mosconi Cup was(is) played in Malta this year... about as far from Vegas as possible:D. I thought 167 entries was pretty good, but this is not a tournament that I have really followed in the past. How many were there last year? What as the highest number of enties?
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Yeah, your right, must have been late when I wrote that:wink: We lost Archer and SVB to the Mosconi. They both played last year and a couple others just didn't come. Light on the pinoys also. A couple years back, there might be 5 or 6, the likes of Orcollo and Manalo playing. The larger better paying Asian tours may be keeping many of them closer to home.

Cory;

I was there that Monday night and the story was they had to close early to prep the tables for the start of the tournament the next morning. I was pissed because thats the best time to see action as everyone still has some cash and wants to warm up for the tournament. It was total BS, they were forced to close IMHO.
 
I was also there and the spectator and player attendance did seem to have been down a bit. I am guessing it is mostly due to the economy. This event has not been at it's potential for some years now though, and I have always wondered why. It is probably one of the cheapest events to attend, and the prize money is decent. I personally think that part of the problem is having the USPPA Pro Am event back to back with the Reno Open hurts attendance, especially for the Open. Most of the USPPA Pro Am spectators and players are just not going to be able to stick around for ten days to play in or watch the Open. The two events cannibalize each other to an extent.
 
you can be sure...

Poolplaya9 said:
I was also there and the spectator and player attendance did seem to have been down a bit. I am guessing it is mostly due to the economy. This event has not been at it's potential for some years now though, and I have always wondered why. It is probably one of the cheapest events to attend, and the prize money is decent. I personally think that part of the problem is having the USPPA Pro Am event back to back with the Reno Open hurts attendance, especially for the Open. Most of the USPPA Pro Am spectators and players are just not going to be able to stick around for ten days to play in or watch the Open. The two events cannibalize each other to an extent.
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regardless, the Sands Regency Casino likes the 10 days of pool players hanging around..........I have gone to this tournament over many years, and I certainly paid my dues down in the casino area..........
 
Tables closed at night

I just talked to Bad Boys Billiard Productions (they do the Diamond Tables at Reno) - the tables were ready for play on Sunday.

The tournament promoter made the decision to close the tables down. I was told that was to help make sure the players could be at the players meeting in the morning (what????). Bad Boys had staff arranged to work the rooms and to have them available for play.

I believe this happened more than one time.

I would really like to see this event get restructured. I think there should be a way to promote the event better and to increase the participation. I agree that adding one more day made it harder for people to come. Some days the matches didn't start until around noon.

Everyone appreciates the Sands 'open arms' to pool players but the event needs better direction. It has become too long and too boring.

So what do you suggest to make it better.

Mark Griffin
 
Mark,

Here is my wish list.

This tournament is one of the most well attended west coast events.

Match scheduling is ok as it is now, but IMO could be tweaked for a 10am start and play could run from Wednesday until Sunday. Saturday and Sunday events would be Money matches and more players would be playing on Sunday than just the final 4.

Entry fees should be at least $200 (there was a time it was $300) or more for this event.

Grady use to hold tournaments in Reno with entry fees that had to be in by certain date and you got half of it back when you arrived.

The regional players (NV, CA, OR, AZ and Washington St and Canada) are always to be counted on. These guys and gals are the backbone of this tournament. Maybe a special deal (early entry fee discount with room reservation?)I

IMO, the venue has lost its allure. New faces need to be seen as friendly, responsive, courteous and diligent at running the event.

Prize money has increased in the last few years, maybe because there isn't a summer event.

Only 10 of the top 40 players (BCA player ranking as of Dec 1st) attended with Corey Deuel the highest ranked at #10. Ernesto Dominguez at #36 was the lowest.

Years ago, the Player of the Year points winner was determined by the results of this December event. That was a great incentive for the Pros to show up and do well.

If there were 24 tables instead of 16, that would help a lot.

Standard rules. Either use a printed version of Texas Express or World Standard Rule. But keep a copy for reference when there is any doubt. Don't leave the TD or Ref Guessing for a result.

Organize Mini-Tournaments at night in a separate room from the main tables.

Mini-tournaments can be sponsored by pool rooms or vendors with added money for each event.

If you need me to help organize or assist in running or promoting, I am volunteering NOW.

Mark Griffin said:
So what do you suggest to make it better.

Mark Griffin
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Mark Griffin said:
I just talked to Bad Boys Billiard Productions (they do the Diamond Tables at Reno) - the tables were ready for play on Sunday.

The tournament promoter made the decision to close the tables down. I was told that was to help make sure the players could be at the players meeting in the morning (what????). Bad Boys had staff arranged to work the rooms and to have them available for play.

I believe this happened more than one time.

I would really like to see this event get restructured. I think there should be a way to promote the event better and to increase the participation. I agree that adding one more day made it harder for people to come. Some days the matches didn't start until around noon.

Everyone appreciates the Sands 'open arms' to pool players but the event needs better direction. It has become too long and too boring.

So what do you suggest to make it better.

Mark Griffin
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I am certain that I know how to boost this events overall #'s. It would take time, effort, and a re-org. I just don't have the time to commit to anything like that as a freebie.

Kudos to the Sands for continuing to have the event. The Sands actually looks and feels much nicer than it ever did in the past; however the actual tournament rooms need renovation.
 
MArk, Corey,

I would get involved($$$$) with re-orgazing the Sands tournment, I remember what it was, it might not be what it was. BUT!!!! it is a good property to work with(I have heard that over the years many times) and its easy for me to get to from LA or Vegas too :smile: . Reno is cheap to stay/eat at so that helps the attendance there is a strong showing from N. Ca players(I was one) and because its been going for so long its established.

With all that in mind there is no reason for it to die, pool is not doing well but it aint so bad that the Sands Reno event cant survive.
 
more comments PLEASE

I will get back to all of those that have posted (and those that post after this) and try to figure out an answer that will keep this event going and even make it stronger.

The Sands adds a lot of money and the rooms are very affordable.

Tom suggested raising the entry to at least $200 -getting new faces - maybe getting the event back on the ranking radar. Sorry, only room (barely) for 16 tables so 24 tables is out of the question. Start matches on Wednesday, start around 10 AM and have more than 4 players on Sunday.
Mini tournaments at night.

I agree with Tom except have different ideas about the entry fee. The goal is to get more people to the Sands so they can get a benefit for sponsoring the event. That might occur with a lower entry. That is probably one of the biggest areas of discussion.

Organizing Mini tournaments and having tables available for practice is a no brainer. We would have live feeds and maybe even some TAR challenge martches.

I agree with Tom on some kind of early signup discount-also that we have to get more players from othere parts of the country.

Any sponsorship ideas to raise the added money to become really attractive is also appreciated. Might have to call this the FATBOY OPEN!!!

Please keep the ideas coming - we are trying to put something together here.

markl Griffin
 
A website for the tournament would be nice.

Next year, don't schedule it on the same dates as Mosconi. Since Mosconi is in Vegas in 2009, you might get the top European and American players to join both events.
 
The only other thing...

I am glad to see there is interest in improving the Sands Reno tournament to keep it going and more attractive.....but none of it matters if the Sands goes down the tubes like all those other casinos.....which I kinda suspect because not many people are going up there to gamble anymore......I hope I'm wrong for the sake of the Reno Open Tournament, but why did they discontinue the summer (June) tournament if they were having success (income) with it?
 
The Sands reported losing money with the Summer events. There are TONS of stuff going on in Reno during May June July and August... Tons of stuff.

Besides pool, bowling and softball are HUGE events (multiple events during the summer for Softball and Bowling just to name two) Each year I've been to Reno for the summer event there weren't any rooms available (except for the block designated for the pool players) all the other hotels also had limited rooms.

The rates for the pool players were as low as $19 a night. This year they went up to $24 per night. Slightly higher for weekend nights.

There has been a reported decline in wagering in the Nevada casinos and nationally it has been down also. Not sure about the actual numbers, but the casinos are always doing what it takes to get the people INTO the casino. That is a goal they all try to achieve.

The Native American casinos already have shown that pool players will show up. There are probably at least 10-15 yearly events (Women and Florida tour and East Coast tour finals) with huge prize money available.

The Sands has been hosting 2 pool events a year (June and December) since the 80s and has always been a good show.

wahcheck said:
I am glad to see there is interest in improving the Sands Reno tournament to keep it going and more attractive.....but none of it matters if the Sands goes down the tubes like all those other casinos.....which I kinda suspect because not many people are going up there to gamble anymore......I hope I'm wrong for the sake of the Reno Open Tournament, but why did they discontinue the summer (June) tournament if they were having success (income) with it?
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bar box tournament?

Tom In Cincy said:
The Sands reported losing money with the Summer events. There are TONS of stuff going on in Reno during May June July and August... Tons of stuff.

Besides pool, bowling and softball are HUGE events (multiple events during the summer for Softball and Bowling just to name two) Each year I've been to Reno for the summer event there weren't any rooms available (except for the block designated for the pool players) all the other hotels also had limited rooms.

The rates for the pool players were as low as $19 a night. This year they went up to $24 per night. Slightly higher for weekend nights.

There has been a reported decline in wagering in the Nevada casinos and nationally it has been down also. Not sure about the actual numbers, but the casinos are always doing what it takes to get the people INTO the casino. That is a goal they all try to achieve.

The Native American casinos already have shown that pool players will show up. There are probably at least 10-15 yearly events (Women and Florida tour and East Coast tour finals) with huge prize money available.

The Sands has been hosting 2 pool events a year (June and December) since the 80s and has always been a good show.
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I had forgotten there was a bar box tournament up there too.......does the Sands sponsor that one? And is it in the summertime?
 
wahcheck said:
I had forgotten there was a bar box tournament up there too.......does the Sands sponsor that one? And is it in the summertime?
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The US Bar Table Championship is usually in late February and early March, and in 2009 it is from February 23rd to March 1st. The Sands does sponsor it as well and they are probably one of the larger sponsors of pool out there. Here are some links with some more information about the upcoming 2009 US Bar Table Championship.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=120191

http://www.playbca.com/Events/2009USBarTableChampionships/tabid/549/Default.aspx
 
I've played at the Sands since the second tourney in '85, and what made the event so well attended in the late 90s was a couple of factors.

1. Like someone said earlier, the added day scared a lot of players off who didn't want to spend the extra time or money. They only added the extra day because so many players were entering the main event that the tournament became too congested in the beginning.

When the tournament numbers slowed down, they didn't start the tournament on Wednesday again, and of course now you have players that won't even play for an entire day because there simply isn't enough players to warrant a six day event.

2. The entry fee went from $100 to $125 and then to $150. Keeping it at $100 would have kept many of the amateurs who play in the USPPA in the event, and also adds to the audience participation. This coupled with deleting the extra day makes it less expensive for everyone in this hard economy.

3. The hotel should consider comping rooms for the top 10 players in the world. The room fees are only 21 bucks anyway. This will increase audience attendance and encourage more amateurs to want to enter to play with the pros.

When I played 10 years ago or so, there were 300 players in the pro event alone, that went from Wednesday to Sunday.

No question that pool isn't as popular as it was 10 years ago, but I think the directors should really consider going back and copying what worked 10 years ago. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Danny
 
I've been to Reno 3 times over the last 10 years and enjoyed aspects of it. It was much better organized and more "professional' than the Derby City Classic for instance. If anything, I would more more inclined to go back and play in it if the entry fees went up. This would mean better payout and incentive to fly from CO to Reno for me.

My biggest complaint about the Reno Open was during those times when I got knocked out of the tournament early. Even though I enjoyed watching other matches, I was dying to get on a table and play. If you go two and out in a tournament like that, you end up spending several extra days of down time while you look for something to do. It's too bad that the hotel does not have room for more tables, so that challenge matches, gambling matches, etc... could be a further incentive to attract players to stick around. I know that tables are available after the matches are played, but not everyone wants to stay up until the wee hours of the morning.

Overall, unless you finish high in the tournament (somewhere in the top 10) the monetary incentive to go is very low. In fact, I really think only the top 4 players made much to speak of. When you factor in travel expenses, food, etc...the incentive to play must consist of other factors besides cash awards. Derby has the after hours gambling to attract people; the Expo has the cue vendors to dazzle buyers; Vegas has, well, Vegas. I love pool, but I found myself bored of Reno, particularly after being knocked out of the tournament.

my 2 cents worth.

Doug
 
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