My Friend, you are fighting a loosing battle but you will soon be smarter. Listen to Bob, Dave, and Patrick. They opened my mind about both acceleration and deflection.
Is there a logic to choosing shaft diameter? (newbie)
- Thread starter azsportpilot
- Start date
Note: Pressure is not force.
One might speculate that higher pressures could lead to effects like increased grip, or wearing on the CB surface, but no other mechanical effects that I can think of.
Colin
One might speculate that higher pressures could lead to effects like increased grip, or wearing on the CB surface, but no other mechanical effects that I can think of.
Colin
Dude. P=F/A. They are interchangeable. Change the letters around!! WTF??
What would force equal then?? Come on! EQUAL. EQUAL. EQUAL.
Holly batman. A question on shaft diameter for a new player leads to physics arguments.
Dear OP, try some friends cues and find what feels best in your bridge. The physics of different shaft diameters is mostly minutia in the grand scheme of things. Pros play with anything from a tiny 10mm shaft to a 13.5mm shaft. It's all what feels good to you.
Dear OP, try some friends cues and find what feels best in your bridge. The physics of different shaft diameters is mostly minutia in the grand scheme of things. Pros play with anything from a tiny 10mm shaft to a 13.5mm shaft. It's all what feels good to you.
Force and pressure are NOT interchangeable. They are relatable if one considers the area that said force is applied to. That's what the formula you posted means.
Excellent post!
And for more info along these lines, the following resources might be useful (from an earlier post that might have been "obscured" by some of the recent "physics clutter"):
Shaft diameter is mostly a personal preference sort of thing. For example, if you use mostly a closed bridge, you might prefer a shaft of a certain size and taper.
However, as others have pointed out, a smaller-diameter shaft will generally create less cue ball deflection (squirt). For more info, see: low-deflection (AKA LD or low-squirt) shafts. This does offer some advantages (although, there also are potential disadvantages for some people).
For more info related to shaft size, see the cue tip size and shape resource page.
Regards,
Dave
The formula to calculate is! Do you understand what THAT means?
F= PA and F= Mass x Acceleration too.
But decreasing area does not increase force, it increases pressure.
Colin
A dime radius on a ten millimeter tip is the same as a dime radius on a thirteen millimeter tip. What could possibly change area of the contact patch, would be the hardness of the tip, the mass of the stick, and the speed the tip hits the cue ball.
And increasing pressure does what??? What happens?? Go read what I posted. Read the last paragraph from the website that I posted up.
Lol. You guys are geniuses and have beaten me into submission by using Google. I actually have taken physics and advanced math courses. Nevermind. I haven't a clue. Carry on. YOLO!!!
So nothing is lost - the same total force (or impulse) is delivered to the CB. How is more work (CB effect) done one way vs. the other?
pj
chgo
P.S. It's still not true that smaller tips make smaller contact areas - this is just in case you still don't believe that either.
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I'm not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV, so I have a question for you experts.
Unless a tip turns concave when it impacts with the cue ball, what is the MAXIMUM "surface area" of the tip that actually "touches" the cue ball on a STRAIGHT IN shot?
Is the MAXIMUM surface area radically different between a smaller diameter shaft than a larger one?
I tend to believe that there isn't much difference and it comes down to "preference" when you actually learn the game.
Aloha.
Unless a tip turns concave when it impacts with the cue ball, what is the MAXIMUM "surface area" of the tip that actually "touches" the cue ball on a STRAIGHT IN shot?
Is the MAXIMUM surface area radically different between a smaller diameter shaft than a larger one?
I tend to believe that there isn't much difference and it comes down to "preference" when you actually learn the game.
Aloha.
Some energy is lost to the environment. You can't get 100 percent efficiency. If you simply LOOK at the explanation that was given, you can plainly see how smaller surface area will yield greater pressure ( or FORCE per unit area) with the SAME applied force.
I'm tired of repeating myself. I have it listed with a link. Go read please.
To the OP
I went through the same ordeal when I was ready to buy my first decent cue. I researched and read every comparison I could between 12.75mm and 11.75mm shafts. I was reading similar things as you are in this thread (fatter shaft gives a little room for error. thinner shaft gives more spin. conical taper sucks in a closed bridge. better breaks with the thick shaft.)
after reading everything I chose the 11.75mm shaft. I figured if it is harder to use I'd rather learn with it, which in theory would make me more accurate in the long run. I did the same same thing when I took up surfing (learned on a 6'2" instead of a giant longboard.)
Fast forward a couple years. I love my OB pro (11.75) When the OB + shafts came out I knew I'd pick one up. I purchased the OB Classic + (12.75) a couple weeks ago and have been using it since.
My thoughts so far? I wish I saved that 200 bucks. I much prefer the smaller shaft. In fact, I wouldn't mind selling the Classic +. My OB Pro feels better, it hits stiffer, it breaks harder, I'm more accurate with it, it feels just fine in my closed bridge.
With all that said, it basically comes down to what you're comfortable with and which size you learn with. Good luck with the search.
I went through the same ordeal when I was ready to buy my first decent cue. I researched and read every comparison I could between 12.75mm and 11.75mm shafts. I was reading similar things as you are in this thread (fatter shaft gives a little room for error. thinner shaft gives more spin. conical taper sucks in a closed bridge. better breaks with the thick shaft.)
after reading everything I chose the 11.75mm shaft. I figured if it is harder to use I'd rather learn with it, which in theory would make me more accurate in the long run. I did the same same thing when I took up surfing (learned on a 6'2" instead of a giant longboard.)
Fast forward a couple years. I love my OB pro (11.75) When the OB + shafts came out I knew I'd pick one up. I purchased the OB Classic + (12.75) a couple weeks ago and have been using it since.
My thoughts so far? I wish I saved that 200 bucks. I much prefer the smaller shaft. In fact, I wouldn't mind selling the Classic +. My OB Pro feels better, it hits stiffer, it breaks harder, I'm more accurate with it, it feels just fine in my closed bridge.
With all that said, it basically comes down to what you're comfortable with and which size you learn with. Good luck with the search.
... it depends on shot speed, tip hardness, and tip shape. Regardless, the contact patch area is a small portion of the total tip size.
... in general, the shaft diameter should have absolutely no effect on contact patch size.
Regards,
Dave
Energy isn't lost. What does it do to "the environment"? For that matter, what is "the environment" that it gets "lost to"?
pj
chgo
P.S. Again, this is all academic, since the contact area doesn't change like you think.
Shouldn't a tip be "shaped" to the same "roundness" of the cue ball?
Is that a nickel shape or a dime shape?
A dime is smaller than a nickel, but they are both circles. Shouldn't the cue tip (whatever size) be "rounded" the same as a 2 1/4 inch circle instead of a dime or nickel-size circle?
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a journey
If you "get into" pool your first cue will not be your last. So 12.75 is a good place to start.
I prefer a 12.5 mm tip and a straight taper for the first 18 to 20 inches so there is no diamaeter change in the shaft when I am stroking for the shot. Others prefer a different taper. It will end up being your call on tip diameter and shaft taper. It's a journey so enjoy it.
If you "get into" pool your first cue will not be your last. So 12.75 is a good place to start.
I prefer a 12.5 mm tip and a straight taper for the first 18 to 20 inches so there is no diamaeter change in the shaft when I am stroking for the shot. Others prefer a different taper. It will end up being your call on tip diameter and shaft taper. It's a journey so enjoy it.