Cowboys are my hero's
Tiger Woods was hitting Golf balls at time he was learning to walk.
Born with Putter in hand.
Born with Putter in hand.
the flip side is if you don`t have natural talent you can practice all you want and still be a monument to mediocrity.To become a world class pool player or golfer takes hours and hours of dedicated practice. One can not become great on "natural talent". You have to put in the work.
I agree with this totally. I tried for years to master the game of golf, and was never better than average. My son picked up a set of clubs in Jr. High School and immediately had a better swing and game than I ever mastered. If he ever chose to seriously pursue golf, he'd be better than me no matter how hard I worked at it, due to natural talent. He'd never make it to the pro tour because all of those guys have even more natural talent and chose to continue working at it. It takes work, but with natural talent you have a high ceiling and elevated floor.Here is my recent post on the topic that I think answers the question truthfully and accurately:
"The simple answer is yes, it more or less is as simple as that [that talent level makes the difference in how great you will be compared to others] if/when everybody has the same drive and is putting the same efforts into their game.
But not everybody has the same drive and is putting the same efforts into their game in the real world, which sometimes (but not always) allows those with less talent, but who want it more and work harder, to surpass those with more talent but who don't put as much effort into their game.
Those that have the most natural ability/talent will always have a higher cap to the potential level they can ultimately reach with enough work though, and will always be able to progress the fastest with equal efforts."
Who’s to say they don’t get better every year, it’s just the pace of improvement that is different between players. Improvement is slow after the 600 level and probably triply so over the 800 range.Here is another way of looking at it. If there was no "cap" due to individual nature, the top pros that practice all day long, would be better every year. Much better. Filler, Pia, Shane, Efren, and many more, practice 6-8 hrs a day every day. You would think with all that practice, they would now be at the level that they miss one ball per decade, rather than 1 ball every couple of racks.
How are you going to become a world class golfer if you don't have the muscle strength potential and hand eye coordination to hit drives 330+ yards consistently and with control? There are 4 types of athletes:To become a world class pool player or golfer takes hours and hours of dedicated practice. One can not become great on "natural talent". You have to put in the work.
In my case--which is not pool--I knew at my 5th grade BD party that I wanted to become an Electrical Engineer, and by 8th grade that I wanted to specialize in digital electronics (this was 1965 before many people even knew computers existed.) in 11th grade I built a calculator (Add and subtract only) about the size of a attaché case which won various science fairs in my state.
Exactly, there's only so much better you can get than almost perfect... You can work on mental aspects, consistency, etc... You may fall off, you may do better. Once you're elite and an expert at something, i.e. > than 90-95% of all practitioners of something, then getting any better is exponential in difficulty and required effort.Who’s to say they don’t get better every year, it’s just the pace of improvement that is different between players. Improvement is slow after the 600 level and probably triply so over the 800 range.
And then it also depends on whether they are practicing to improve or practicing to maintain their game. And even pros may begin practicing the wrong things and start to get diminishing returns. So pros, just like anyone else can get into a rut of practicing things that aren’t leading to results. It’s why you see top snooker players engage coaches more frequently than pool players do.
There may be a cap to how consistently you pocket balls (I’m not sure we are there yet in pool), but there are certainly other things that can continually get better.
True, true. One thing though. Some instructors believe fundamentals are overrated and prioritized patterns and cue ball that result in simple enough shots that one doesn’t need to be robot perfect to run out.It’s even more rare to find a few who recognize that natural talent/skill and accept it as such.
Seven/eight 14.1 world straight pool championship holders have, since it’s inception,
an aggregate total of fifty-five world championships to their credit.
Side arm deliveries, crab claw bridge hand grips, drop elbows, you name it, they all mostly had imperfections in their physical games, but their mental toughness, sent many back to the practice tables, trying to mimic their games.
Todays instructors would have sent them back with entirely new games to hopefully get to the top of the pool game as pros.
And, they would beat you at any game that you wanted to play.
Hell, they didn’t care how good you thought that you were, they would just run out on you from any open shot.
How did you make your calculator? I assume there was no CPU in it. So you used TTL logic?
Does Shane ever have a day when he's "on fire"? What does that even mean at his level? He misses 2 out of 100 shots on a regular day, He's have to play an entire tournament before he would notice a difference.That's why Shane, for example, kind of fell off there for a while when he was fishing more than he was practicing and then has now come back strong once he started putting more time in than any other player again.
I think the physical movement in pool is simple enough that fundamentals are not critical beyond a decent baseline. Keith McReady chickenwinged his way past plenty of heavy hitters. I do believe that good fundamentals help achieve and maintain consistency. Once a player has a reliable stroke, I can see where pattern play would be a more productive area to work on.Some instructors believe fundamentals are overrated and prioritized patterns and cue ball that result in simple enough shots that one doesn’t need to be robot perfect to run out.
Ok, that is a lot more primative than I expected. I guess i come from a more modern time...not being an EE probably doesn't help either.I made the calculator just after RTL logic had been introduced, TTL was still several years into the future.
I used capacitively coupled flip flops as the counter,
a 13 section gang switch to change from add to subtract,
and a binary readout system (model lights),
Each flip flop used a power transistor, 2 diodes, 4 resistors, and 2 capacitors
(I got the circuit from the ONLY book in my HS library on computers.)
And finally, the input device was a rotary phone dial.
The end result looked like a wiring nest from the insides.
Hey Bob!Maybe the problem in this discussion is calling some of the differences between people "talent". Maybe if we called it "aptitude" we could have more agreement. Do different people have different aptitudes for different activities? Do some people have more aptitude for math? Do some have more aptitude for baseball?
If we take two people who have never played baseball before -- a 15-year-old soccer star from Germany and a 45-year-old housewife from Iowa -- and give them baseball training with an incentive to do well, do we imagine that one is more likely to do well? Will one have more aptitude for baseball?
This right here.. Willie hoppe played with the worst stroke you could hav…. A side arm stroke. No one would teach anyone to play pool like that but his natural god given talent was so great that it didn’t matter. Being great absolutely takes hard work but it also has to be mixed with a god given ability. Either you got it or you don’t.the flip side is if you don`t have natural talent you can practice all you want and still be a monument to mediocrity.
He knows! Some people (mostly young ones) have more athletic ability than others and can learn a new sport faster, much faster. Maybe one year as opposed to three. That said, NO ONE ever picked up a cue and starting running racks! I've played pool with world class athletes and they were as inept at pool as any other beginner. If there was ever any real money in pool, then some of these young kids who become star baseball or basketball players would become star pool players instead!I've said it before yes there is natural talent.
We all have seen the players that have played for decades and struggle to run a rack of any game and the player that has been playing a couple years that can run multiple racks.
I see this all the time in the room I go to and for the last 60 years I've been playing.