Ivory spelling?

The issue of ivory two different legal entanglements……Federal and State.
Recollection Cues has a great explanation of the ivory restrictions. Read it.

The simple answers is look at your local state law, if any has been enacted,
about ivory. If your state has passed a law banning ivory, the federal law does
not even matter. The federal law deals with interstate & international commerce.
The state law regulates what you can do where you reside. It’s really that simple.

Yes, there are severe penalties for violating the ivory ban. Perhaps the laws in the
future will become more lenient or modified. Right now it is what it is. Lots of cue
makers won’t make a cue with ivory any longer. Just too many hassles and risks.

Cue makers that live in states without any ivory ban are still producing pool cues with
ivory. If your state says you can’t sell ivory, that’s all it takes to make your sale illegal.

You could go to an adjacent state and trade or sell your cue but you can’t originate or
initiate any sale or purchase of a pool cue with ivory while within your state’s boundaries.
The loophole, yet to be tested, is the de minimus exception for ivory content in a pool cue.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Think the Ivory Ban is joke ask Ernie at Gina Cue how he enjoyed his time in Federal Prision?
Click to expand...
He never did a day in jail/ prison. He paid a $10,000 fine, 4 month's house arrest and 2 years probation.
www.justice.gov

Pool Cue Maker Sentenced for Helping to Smuggle Elephant Ivory

A North Hollywood man was sentenced this morning on federal charges related to the attempted illegal exportation from the United States to Taiwan of protected African elephant ivory. Cesar Ernesto Gutierrez, 75, was sentenced by United States District Judge John F. Walter to two years of...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov
 
JoeyInCali said:
Micarta or melamine?
Click to expand...

I got four ferrule blanks from him today.

He has had them for more than 20 years.

He has three or four Southwests and he bought the ferrules from someone here in Hawaii in case he ever had some new shafts made.

He says it is Westinghouse paper Micarta.

It looks like the ferrule on the Southwest he was playing with today.
 
The rumor mill has other people currently at risk. I spent two weeks e-mailing a FWS rep and received acceptance to author Deminimus declaration documents. That being said, you definitely cannot export or import, from any state (out of US). There is a provision for 100 year old antiques. Billiards Balls, old cues would fall under this provision. The reason you see iv**y or the like is as mentioned specific searches or bot evasion. BTW 12 states and DC are lockdown states. All easy to look up.
 
classiccues said:
The rumor mill has other people currently at risk. I spent two weeks e-mailing a FWS rep and received acceptance to author Deminimus declaration documents. That being said, you definitely cannot export or import, from any state (out of US). There is a provision for 100 year old antiques. Billiards Balls, old cues would fall under this provision. The reason you see iv**y or the like is as mentioned specific searches or bot evasion. BTW 12 states and DC are lockdown states. All easy to look up.
Click to expand...


Curious what the 12 States are?
 
classiccues said:
The rumor mill has other people currently at risk. I spent two weeks e-mailing a FWS rep and received acceptance to author Deminimus declaration documents. That being said, you definitely cannot export or import, from any state (out of US). There is a provision for 100 year old antiques. Billiards Balls, old cues would fall under this provision. The reason you see iv**y or the like is as mentioned specific searches or bot evasion. BTW 12 states and DC are lockdown states. All easy to look up.
Click to expand...
It's worth noting that they consider old ivory that's reshaped at all as new ivory. So if you had a 100 year old documented tusk and wanted to drill out a new ferrule from that tusk it's the same to the feds as if you'd gone and killed a elephant. Same with making guitar picks from an old tiffany tortoiseshell lampshade.
 
California
New Jersey
New York
New Hampshire
New Mexico
Hawaii
Nevada
Washington
Illinois
Minnesota
District of Columbia

Every state can be different regarding exceptions
or limitations as to type or amount of ivory involved.

Recollection Cues has a very good explanation about
ivory and why cues with ivory will appreciate in value.
 
Bavafongoul said:
Recollection Cues has a very good explanation about
ivory and why cues with ivory will appreciate in value.
Click to expand...
Recollection Cues is dead wrong but it would make sense they would try to argue that since cues with ivory in them are or would be a big portion of their sales. The market for cues with ivory has already gone down, and will continue to dwindle away, and one day the bottom is going to fall out with prices that plummet quickly, deeply, and permanently.

But but but but, less ivory equals higher price you are going to say. But that is only true when demand stays constant, but demand already has been, and is going to continue to, keep going down. No demand equals no value, regardless of how "rare" something might be. Demand drives value more than rarity does.

Here is what is making the demand go away which has already caused prices to drop some and will ultimately cause them to drop a lot. 1) It is too hard to buy, sell, and travel with cues with ivory in them and you are already extremely limited which is a major hassle. 2) The repercussions for breaking the laws are very stiff and already not worth risking ignoring for most people, and they are going to be looking to crack down on the lawbreakers even more and more as time go by so it is going to get substantially worse that it already is. 3) The threat exists that one day your options to sell aren't just limited and difficult, but will go away completely, and then you are stuck with your item forever and at that point it is essentially dead worthless outside of emotional value. 4) There is a negative social stigma against owning ivory, and it is only going to get worse, much worse, and eventually you aren't even going to be able to admit to having ivory much less be seen with it. 5) Contrary to what is in some people's heads (and it is indeed all in their heads), there is no need for ivory in cues these days as the feel and looks can be duplicated perfectly with other materials and those other materials come with every other advantage as well including cost, durability, ease of working with, lack of the environmental impact, etc.

All these factors and more are going to absolutely kill the demand for cue sticks with ivory in them which in turn is going to kill the prices.
 
Last edited:
Poolplaya9 said:
Recollection Cues is dead wrong but it would make sense they would try to argue that since cues with ivory in them are or would be a big portion of their sales. The market for cues with ivory has already gone down, and will continue to dwindle away, and one day the bottom is going to fall out with prices that plummet quickly, deeply, and permanently.

But but but but, less ivory equals higher price you are going to say. But that is only true when demand stays constant, but demand already has been, and is going to continue to, keep going down. No demand equals no value, regardless of how "rare" something might be. Demand drives value more than rarity does.

Here is what is making the demand go away which has already caused prices to drop some and will ultimately cause them to drop a lot. 1) It is too hard to buy, sell, and travel with cues with ivory in them and you are already extremely limited which is a major hassle. 2) The repercussions for breaking the laws are very stiff and already not worth risking ignoring for most people, and they are going to be looking to crack down on the lawbreakers even more and more as time go by so it is going to get substantially worse that it already is. 3) The threat exists that one day your options to sell aren't just limited and difficult, but will go away completely, and then you are stuck with your item forever and at that point it is essentially dead worthless outside of emotional value. 4) There is a negative social stigma against owning ivory, and it is only going to get worse, much worse, and eventually you aren't even going to be able to admit to having ivory much less be seen with it. 5) Contrary to what is in some people's heads (and it is indeed all in their heads), there is no need for ivory in cues these days as the feel and looks can be duplicated perfectly with other materials and those other materials come with every other advantage as well including cost, durability, ease of working with, lack of the environmental impact, etc.

All these factors and more are going to absolutely kill the demand for cue sticks with ivory in them which in turn is going to kill the prices.
Click to expand...


Your post make sense, but there is a group of people who always are willing to take chances with laws.

When they get caught it will cost them big buck for lawyers, or they will do time, or pay big fines.

Ivory is great material, but in all honesty in 2022 there are man made materials that are an equal.

Why take chances when it easy to not be in harms way?
 
Here is the uncontested truth based on reality which is what’s already occurred throughout history.
Supply & Demand…….the more scarce something is, the more it tends to be worth. It applies to
pretty much everything and it is also applies to pool cues as evidenced by deceased prestigious
cue makers, but also painters, jewelers, musical instruments, fine curios & artifacts, gosh, everything.

So those that have, well they possess it forever and those that don’t, well, they don’t have any say.
The marketplace never lies and time will tell but the handwriting is on the wall…..less is worth more.
Rarity and scarcity largely influence the worth of anything collectible, especially true with pool cues.
Regardless, IMO, cues aren’t a good investment if that’s your primary reason for buying custom ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top