JA and Earl confirm it, 5x10 tables are a must.
- Thread starter Celtic
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this smart sob was suggesting 10 footers years ago
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38630
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=38630
Just as a side note, this was not the table that was planned. A tight diamond was supposed to be here, but for some reason the party that was to supply the table jumped off the boat about a week before the event. The room owner stepped up and bought the gandy, had it set up with tighter pockets, and hoped for the best. Needless to say, it doesn't play like a diamond, but the table was the same for them both. Softer rails and a little bigger pockets let them both pull off shots that wouldn't pass on a diamond. I personally enjoyed the match, and would rather see them use the table to their advantage than watch them miss more often. Then you have people saying how bad they played, which wasn't the case.
FlackAttack
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I'm sick of hearing about what needs to be done to make pool a mass spectator sport. It isn't and won't ever be. There is too many other things to do to pass time this day and age and the younger generation could care less about pool and very few are going to take the game up. Streaming action matches is what we got and to be honest I like it better than watching some alternate break race to 5 or 7, one game tie breaker crap that espn puts on. I want to see the best all around player win, not somebody that gets lucky or the other player doesn't have time to fade the rolls. The 10 ftr is awesome to watch to see who the better player is not just the best breaker. If someone like Earl or Efren had Shane's break that game on the 10 footer would never be close.
Anyone who thinks this sport sucks needs to just box up all their stuff and ship it to me (I will take it upon myself to pay for the shipping and handling).
The self hating attitude in pool astounds me. Here we have two of the greatest US players playing each other for cash and people are actually complaining about the lack of mistakes. I am absolutely amazed by this.
I didn't get a chance to see the match at all due to previous appointments, but I will say that I absolutely yearn to see perfect pool being played. I have absolutely no complaints when I see two players that are sooo darn good the only thing separating them is a small bit of luck.
People wanting the sport to better test the skill of the top level players should not amaze you, it should be common sense. As I said, noone wants to watch poker pro's play "Go Fish", noone wants to watch Kasparov play Checkers, and noone wants to see pro golf switch from the courses they play on to mini-putt. Why anyone would think that dumbing down professional pool to equipement and games that no longer properly test the professional skill level is the proper thing to do in this sport and yet sounds so absurd in every other sport amazes me.
This sport USED to be played on 5x10 tables, and guess what it was almost exactly when they swtiched from those to 9 footers that pool also started to see a decline as a spectator sport. Did you know that world championships used to get hundreds of people watching the competition live, lots of press compared to today?
This sport will never be as popular as the NBA as a spectator sport, and noone is suggesting that it will be. But that is not a reason to throw in the towel completely and not aim to better the sport and increase the amount of people that might want to watch it. People on this forum often act as if the World Championships need to get viewership like the superboawl or we might as well not bother trying to fix anything. It is freaking absurd. This sport needs to change some stuff up, it needs to get more respect, it needs more fans, it needs more sponserships. We don't need it all overnight and we don't need to be right there with the huge sports, but any increase pool can manage is a positive and should be strived for.
Rest assured, the people clammoring for change and hoping for a better tomorrow hate this sport a hell of alot less then the apathetic group of people who don't care and think everything should just stay the way it is, with no pro tour, few pros making a living, and little respect or even awareness of this sport beyond a very small community of pool players.
Sorry, but I just don't agree with the inference that the switch to 9' tables is responsible for the decline in professional pool.
JA & Earl...5x10 tables ?
The standard tournament model 4 1/2 X 9 table is plenty tough enough IF the rails were cut to 4" at the opening, (not shimmed!). There wouldn't be too many run outs, especially on a Diamond brand table (pocket shelves are a little deeper than the Gold Crown's). I.M.O.
The standard tournament model 4 1/2 X 9 table is plenty tough enough IF the rails were cut to 4" at the opening, (not shimmed!). There wouldn't be too many run outs, especially on a Diamond brand table (pocket shelves are a little deeper than the Gold Crown's). I.M.O.
Who knows, maybe the pro's have seen this to be true, huh?
Since the biggest challenge matches are 10-ball lately. Or in the case this weekend, 8-ball, 10-ball and 14.1.
Few things change overnight. Texas Express 9-ball won't go away anytime soon. But we certainly do hear lot's more about 10-ball than ever before, don't we?
Maybe 5x10's will start making more appearances, especially in challenge matches where they only need one table. We can hope.
Part of the issue is the accessibility of 10 foot tables. Bar tables take up much less room i.e. square footage. The economics of the smaller tables almost make it impossible for rooms to house the big 10 foot tables. Maybe they can put in a couple but a roomful? How about trying to set up a tournament using 10 footers? The cost would be higher not mention who even makes 10 foot tables nowadays? I think the 9 foot diamond professional tables are very challenging even to the pro ranks.
I'm afraid the first battle that must be fought is to keep pro pool on the 9 footers and not the 7s. More and more bar table tourneys are popping up every year. Many pool halls are slowly exchanging their 9 footers for the diamond bar boxes. You can walk in and grab a tray of balls for the 9s whenever you want but the bar boxes are all taken. Barbox pool is much easier so it's now more popular. You don't need a stroke or teriffic aim to play on the baby tables. My fear is it is more likely the game will change to the 7 footers than back to the 10s. Let's support the streams, the challenge matches, etc., to at least keep pool on nothing short of a 9 footer. I'd rather quit playing than only play on the 7 foot -"no skill required" tables.
I know, I know, you need a little skill...
I know, I know, you need a little skill...
I did not specifically state cause and effect. I mearly stated that the timing is very precise, coincidence or otherwise. I do think that people who claim the smaller easier tables actually increase the popularity as a spectator sport have no leg to stand on given the way the sport went the instant they changed the table size though. We are certainly not going to "hurt" this sport in the change, and we very well might help it out.
I feel that for challenge matches he 10 footer is the way to go. But for most tournaments I don't see it as practical. And for poolrooms it's almost out of the question. Poolrooms
are struggling as it is and for them to be expected to switch over to 10 footers, for most would be a death knell. As Nick Varner pointed out, it's hard enough keeping 9 footers in
the game. So many tournaments and rooms are going to 7 foot bar tables because they give more revenue per square foot than the larger tables. You're lucky if a poolroom
these days devotes room for one 10 foot carom table because in the almost the same space you can have 2 bar tables! Poolrooms today need to maximize their income potential
and installing 10 foot pool tables to placate those purists who feel it's a better contest could be the straw that breaks the camels back. In a perfect world, I'd like to see at least
8 of each size table and 4 more carom tables and some snooker tables as well, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world! We have to play withing our means! Sometimes
I hate to be practical but having owned 2 pool rooms and a pool bar, I've seen the real side of these issues and would rather see pool rooms open than closed!
are struggling as it is and for them to be expected to switch over to 10 footers, for most would be a death knell. As Nick Varner pointed out, it's hard enough keeping 9 footers in
the game. So many tournaments and rooms are going to 7 foot bar tables because they give more revenue per square foot than the larger tables. You're lucky if a poolroom
these days devotes room for one 10 foot carom table because in the almost the same space you can have 2 bar tables! Poolrooms today need to maximize their income potential
and installing 10 foot pool tables to placate those purists who feel it's a better contest could be the straw that breaks the camels back. In a perfect world, I'd like to see at least
8 of each size table and 4 more carom tables and some snooker tables as well, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world! We have to play withing our means! Sometimes
I hate to be practical but having owned 2 pool rooms and a pool bar, I've seen the real side of these issues and would rather see pool rooms open than closed!
I agree. It's just like the US OPEN in golf. The pro's play in the toughest conditions and most don't even break PAR. The best players should always play in the toughest conditions when the most is one the line it just makes sense. Watching a Golf pro chop up a country club is nothing like watching him grind at the US Open for four days.
The same type of excitment is available in pool if we make the conditions tougher and tougher as the pro's keep adapting and get better and better.
I agree with Sherm. Done that been there. Rooms are the lifeblood of the sport. Leagues and bar boxes are currently the lifeblood of the pool room.
For challenge matches/gambling, I don't care what they play on. The table that is played on now seems to be part of the negotiations. Heck, if you want a real challenge maybe they should play on an ocean table using 2.25" balls, 2.75 inch openings, v-rails but leave the round instead of points at the pocket entry. Is that where pool is headed? Wouldn't that be the ultimate challenge to see who is best?
The 14.1 exhibition that those two put on was nothing short of spectacular. There is no way Earl would have tried some of those thin cut break shots at speed into a 3 7/8" pocket much less that table length 8-ball? break shot. Players just aren't going to take that chance. So what you get is a bunch of safeties and kicks.
That 14.1 match confirmed to me that 4.5 x 9's with 4.5 pockets are perfect. They aren't good for growing the sport, but they are good for a great match.
Earl"s assesment of pool on 10 foot tables with very tight pockets is exactly backwords from where pool has been going for the last 25yrs.
Pool has been made much easier due to rule changes ( 1 foul, texas express, spot no balls, etc ), fast cloth so players with weak strokes can move the cue ball, lively billiard balls, break and jump cues,etc.
Tourneys played on 10 ft tbls would have fields of 20-30 players, which is what Earl said he wants...best of the best! So, where is the money coming from? Theses "PROS" miss the fact that the money in tourneys comes from players that CANT win the tourney but want to compete.
The game was much tougher in the 60"s and 70"s on slow wool cloth,spot all balls,2 foul pushout,no jumping allowed, and races to 11.
If the "PROS" want to play together on 10 footers, let "em. But dont try and run a pool room with 10 foot tables, you'll go broke.
Just my view of pool.
Anybody wanna play pushout?...lol If you know what that is, raise your hand.
C-YA
Pool has been made much easier due to rule changes ( 1 foul, texas express, spot no balls, etc ), fast cloth so players with weak strokes can move the cue ball, lively billiard balls, break and jump cues,etc.
Tourneys played on 10 ft tbls would have fields of 20-30 players, which is what Earl said he wants...best of the best! So, where is the money coming from? Theses "PROS" miss the fact that the money in tourneys comes from players that CANT win the tourney but want to compete.
The game was much tougher in the 60"s and 70"s on slow wool cloth,spot all balls,2 foul pushout,no jumping allowed, and races to 11.
If the "PROS" want to play together on 10 footers, let "em. But dont try and run a pool room with 10 foot tables, you'll go broke.
Just my view of pool.
Anybody wanna play pushout?...lol If you know what that is, raise your hand.
C-YA