Jasmin Suspended

[Pjadedd]

I think there's a couple things to consider. First, I would assume that penalties are known. Many are complaining that the ban might be unfair (I do like the idea of deducting points), but if it's a well-known penalty, then it's something that just has to be accepted. People are saying the board members who are active players will be at an advantage, but if the rules say "if A happens, B is the punishment," then we can hardly fault the board for carrying out the appropriate action. Yes, maybe the penalty will change in the future, but if that's what it is, it does need to be enforced.

As for the waiver situation, that's still a mystery because none of us really knows what happened. Maybe Jasmin thought that everything she did was correct. If that's the case, then, again, it could be either side's fault. If someone assumes they are doing something right, but are wrong, it may be bad luck or unfortunate, but it is still and infraction.


PJ

 

[vagabond]

If you think that that Jasmin missing 2 tournaments can be equated to what Reagan did do the air traffic controllers, than you better re-align your priorities.

you missed the point by a mile.Ronald Regan said airtraffic controllers knew that they should not go on strike as per the contract and if they did they loose their jobs.Here in jasmin`s case similar logic was used.

 

[vagabond]

Wow.

Allen Hopkins and Jay Calhoun have to play Jasmin?
but Jay might need some weight.

Jay beat wade crane 2 weeks ago at Babineuo`s in cary,NC.:grin-square: :grin: :grin-square:

 

[worldison2]

you missed the point by a mile.Ronald Regan said airtraffic controllers knew that they should not go on strike as per the contract and if they did they loose their jobs.Here in jasmin`s case similar logic was used.

Thanks. You're absolutely right. Now that you explained it, I agree with you. I read your post entirely differently than what you intended.

Sometimes you just gotta love the internet. (How the hell do they communicate at the UN with all those translators?)

 

[Johnnyt]

Thanks. You're absolutely right. Now that you explained it, I agree with you. I read your post entirely differently than what you intended.

Sometimes you just gotta love the internet. (How the hell do they communicate at the UN with all those translators?)

It doesn't mater if they understand or not. A) most are not listening B) most don't give a $hit C) Most don't have the brains to fix anything anyhow. Some president or dictator put them there because he/she did them a favor. Johnnyt

 

[8&snap]

Don Mackey - Tour failed under his "leadership" drove the women to create the Classic Tour. Don ran off with money.

Keven Trudeau - Big Vision - Equally Big Promise - Came up Short on both funds and big buyers for his vision.

The WPBA Classic Tour - the longest running and most successful professional pocket billiards tournament series in history.

The WPBA - the oldest continuous pocket billiards professional organization.

The difference? The WPBA is ran by a board that is elected by it's players. The players subjugate themselves to the board's decisions. The players vote on major changes to the structure of the organization and the tour.

On the professional side of the game the WPBA is carrying the torch for professional pool in the United States and even around the world as it's matches are rebroadcast on ESPN Asia.

If EARL STRICKLAND had done the same thing that Jasmin did then half of you who are condemning the WPBA would be instead saying that Earl is not bigger than the game.

Once you make a high profile player larger than the game itself then the game suffers. Jasmin Ouschan is a tremendous player. She is in the company of other tremendous players. She is NOT however the face of the WPBA. If she wants to BE the face of the WPBA then she has to earn it. And she knows this. Part of earning it is to play within the rules OR accept the consequences of disobeying them.

I like the fact that Jasmin opted to play in the WTBC. I think that she did in fact prove that women can hang with the guys. I don't like the fact that she is barred from two tournaments in the WPBA.

I predict however that this will only make her stronger and more determined.

I think that the WPBA schedule is posted far enough in advance for players to make their plans.

John,one of the questions i alluded to was the posting of schedules so players could "COMMIT" to playing,not make plans,this is a key issue in my opinion.When you commit to playing an event then your LOCKED-IN, no getting out without a death notice,that way sponsors,fans & the tour itself knows who to put up on the marque & if you don't commit then if there's a big event somewhere else then the uncommitted players are free to play. But with out prior scheduling this cant happen & everyone's in limbo. Also, the people you posted running tours are not professional business people,their snakes at best with a track record to prove it,as you stated above"running off with the cash & kevin t,there's a star in the snake oil world.Another 2 cents of mine worth it or not.

 

[Island Drive]

I get what you're saying, Jay - but I can assure you that jealousy/agendas/other issues are not factors in this situation. Its just a player agreement violation.

Unfortunate situation? Yes.
Is the punshment too severe? Definitely seems like overkill to me. You don't use a steamroller when a flyswatter'll do the trick.[/QUOTE]

Black Jack,
its hard to believe, their decision to suspend her for two events, had any real logic. Here we've got a woman who can beat allot of men in match play, and like BJ King in tennis did, can help change the sport for the better, let her RUN. I'm still pissed off that Allison didn't play Sigel (IPT), instead of Lori John, Allie could of won.
Situations like this don't come along often in sports, and the board should look at the BIGGER PICTURE than their own back yard, typical, same agenda that always seems WPBA samo samo. If they can make it a double suspension, why not make it an exception suspension because of the WPBA exposure they could get from one of their own kickin' ass against the guys.
If the WPBA had evolved since the early 90's, they would of been playing more often and for a HELL OF ALLOT MORE MONEY THAN 15 YEARS AGO but they are not, ever wonder why?

 

[ribdoner]

I get what you're saying, Jay - but I can assure you that jealousy/agendas/other issues are not factors in this situation. Its just a player agreement violation.

Unfortunate situation? Yes.
Is the punshment too severe? Definitely seems like overkill to me. You don't use a steamroller when a flyswatter'll do the trick.

Blacl Jack,
its hard to believe, their decision to suspend her for two events, had any real logic. Here we've got a woman who can beat allot of men in match play, and like BJ King in tennis did, can help change the sport for the better, let her RUN. I'm still pissed off that Allison didn't play Sigel (IPT), instead of Lori John, Allie could of won.
Situations like this don't come along often in sports, and the board should look at the BIGGER PICTURE than their own back yard, typical, same agenda that always seems WPBA samo samo. If they can make it a double suspension, why not make it an exception suspension because of the WPBA exposure they could get from one of their own kickin' ass against the guys.
If the WPBA had evolved since the early 90's, they would of been playing more often and for a HELL OF ALLOT MORE MONEY THAN 15 YEARS AGO but they are not, ever wonder why?[/QUOTE]


Bill,

TIPTON, was an entrepreneur and in large part responsible for the tour's dynamic, early success. A decision to turn the reins over to people/groups perceived to have a higher level of business acumen was made and the results have been predictable.

Accounting and Marketing mavens aren't, as a rule, entrepreneurs.

 

[Pjadedd]

I get what you're saying, Jay - but I can assure you that jealousy/agendas/other issues are not factors in this situation. Its just a player agreement violation.

Unfortunate situation? Yes.
Is the punshment too severe? Definitely seems like overkill to me. You don't use a steamroller when a flyswatter'll do the trick.

Blacl Jack,
its hard to believe, their decision to suspend her for two events, had any real logic. Here we've got a woman who can beat allot of men in match play, and like BJ King in tennis did, can help change the sport for the better, let her RUN. I'm still pissed off that Allison didn't play Sigel (IPT), instead of Lori John, Allie could of won.
Situations like this don't come along often in sports, and the board should look at the BIGGER PICTURE than their own back yard, typical, same agenda that always seems WPBA samo samo. If they can make it a double suspension, why not make it an exception suspension because of the WPBA exposure they could get from one of their own kickin' ass against the guys.
If the WPBA had evolved since the early 90's, they would of been playing more often and for a HELL OF ALLOT MORE MONEY THAN 15 YEARS AGO but they are not, ever wonder why?[/QUOTE]


Again, though, you have to wonder if the punishment was arbitrary (which I doubt) or is part of the WPBA contract. Yes, maybe the punishment is too severe, but you can't blame the WPBA for enforcing its own rule.


PJ

 

[JB Cases]

John,one of the questions i alluded to was the posting of schedules so players could "COMMIT" to playing,not make plans,this is a key issue in my opinion.When you commit to playing an event then your LOCKED-IN, no getting out without a death notice,that way sponsors,fans & the tour itself knows who to put up on the marque & if you don't commit then if there's a big event somewhere else then the uncommitted players are free to play. But with out prior scheduling this cant happen & everyone's in limbo. Also, the people you posted running tours are not professional business people,their snakes at best with a track record to prove it,as you stated above"running off with the cash & kevin t,there's a star in the snake oil world.Another 2 cents of mine worth it or not.

I don't follow golf. Can someone give me a link where I can see what players are committed to which events in the future?

I understand you point. However the WPBA is the ONLY tour that was created by the players and is run primarily by the players at the direction of the players.

As such it also HAPPENS to be the longest running continuous professional players tour in the world as far as I know it.

There isn't much money in it compared to other sports. The majority of players on tour do it more out of love for the game than the fact that they will make life-changing money. But it's there, it's on TV constantly, and it's consistent.

I have never heard of any payout problems with the WPBA, they compete with full fields of eager players. They have a strong qualifier system.

So if we want to nitpick because our current favorite got spanked according to the rules that all the players have to live by then I say that's unfair.

Maybe a successful outside "businessperson" could do more for the WPBA than they have done for themselves but I doubt it unless that person has some special connections or a lot of money to invest. The way I see it, as a business, the WPBA has done very well for itself to stay in business for so long and be providing the platform it does to showcase the women's professional game.

 

[JB Cases]

Blacl Jack,
its hard to believe, their decision to suspend her for two events, had any real logic. Here we've got a woman who can beat allot of men in match play, and like BJ King in tennis did, can help change the sport for the better, let her RUN. I'm still pissed off that Allison didn't play Sigel (IPT), instead of Lori John, Allie could of won.
Situations like this don't come along often in sports, and the board should look at the BIGGER PICTURE than their own back yard, typical, same agenda that always seems WPBA samo samo. If they can make it a double suspension, why not make it an exception suspension because of the WPBA exposure they could get from one of their own kickin' ass against the guys.
If the WPBA had evolved since the early 90's, they would of been playing more often and for a HELL OF ALLOT MORE MONEY THAN 15 YEARS AGO but they are not, ever wonder why?[/QUOTE]


How do we know that they aren't looking at the bigger picture? Maybe their vision of the bigger picture is quite different than ours since we are on the outside looking in. Also what exposure did the WPBA receive from Jasmin's participation in the WTBC? I watched all of Jasmin's matches and I don't recall that anything was mentioned about the WPBA. Jasmin wore no WPBA logos. The WPBA wasn't mentioned at all in regards to Jasmin's drive, talent, tenacity, or experience.

So from a business standpoint what gain does the WPBA get from Jasmin's participation?

 

[wahcheck]

It does seem silly of the WPBA..

According to the quote attributed to Ms. Ouschan, she made a timely decision and announced it "according to their rules," so I don't know why they are penalizing her......

 

[softshot]

did tennis suspend Billie Jean King when she played Arthur Ashe????

no... they promoted the hell out of it


would they have suspended her for playing in the mens division at Wimbledon that year???

ARE YOU NUTS????

WHAT IF SHE HAD A SHOT TO WIN?????


who is not seeing the big picture here????

 

[softshot]

Imagine the JJ express

Jean and Jasmin... scotch doubles.. vs the world..

DYNOMITEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vs Shane and Efren

look me in the eye and tell me the girls couldn't win...

I dare ya...

 

[Blackjack]

According to the quote attributed to Ms. Ouschan, she made a timely decision and announced it "according to their rules," so I don't know why they are penalizing her......

She made the announcement which is in reference to another policy (possibly the Guaranteed Entry Program) that requires players of exempt status to notify the WPBA within 60 days if they do not intend to attend a sanctioned event.

I believe Jasmin made a press release more than 60 days prior to the Pacific Coast Classic. However, making a press relase does not exempt her from following the waiver policy, a policy she clearly violated either purposely or by ignorance. She still has to request the waiver.

She either requested the waiver and it was denied - or she never requested it.

A tournament waiver must be requested for the following:

1. Any non-sanctioned or non-recognized event, in the U.S. or abroad, where you areengaging in professional competition.
2. Any competitive event televised, taped for video distribution, or for media (prize moneyor not).
3. Five or more players playing in a competitive exhibition event.
4. Any event within a hundred mile radius of a WPBA tour stop city within 15 days prior to or following a WPBA tour stop.
5. Any competitive event where the player can win $1,000.00 or more

The severe punishment is possibly because she was the defending champion of the event she did not attend. If Jasmin did not follow the WPBA procedures and he slot was not filled for that event - she could also be required to pay the entry fee if that slot went unfilled.

Cancellation
Any player who verbally accepts an entry into a Classic Tour event and then cancels less than 60 days prior to the event is responsible for payment of entry fee unless the WPBA is able to fill that vacated spot.

Either way, this is a clear violation of the waiver policy.

Upon appeal, she can bring up the fact that the 2 event suspension is too severe, and the board will decide on that.

For now, she is S.O.L. trying to fight the validity of the rule. This rule has been in effect for a very long time, and the player is ultimately responsible to knowing, learning, and abiding by these rules that are set forth in the player agreement.

 

[Johnnyt]

The rule has been in effect waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to long. I can't believe what people sign, Johnnyt

 

[jay helfert]

did tennis suspend Billie Jean King when she played Arthur Ashe????

no... they promoted the hell out of it


would they have suspended her for playing in the mens division at Wimbledon that year???

ARE YOU NUTS????

WHAT IF SHE HAD A SHOT TO WIN?????


who is not seeing the big picture here????

Her big match was with Bobby Riggs. She didn't have a prayer playing Arthur Ashe.

 

[jay helfert]

Imagine the JJ express

Jean and Jasmin... scotch doubles.. vs the world..

DYNOMITEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vs Shane and Efren

look me in the eye and tell me the girls couldn't win...

I dare ya...

The girls wouldn't win!

 

[Johnnyt]

Her big match was with Bobby Riggs. She didn't have a prayer playing Arthur Ashe.

To have something to promote in pool you need a Jeanette Lee Vs Earl Strickland. They can both talk trash to promote the match and if mainstream knows any pool players at all it would be them IMO. Johnnyt

 

[jay helfert]

To have something to promote in pool you need a Jeanette Lee Vs Earl Strickland. They can both talk trash to promote the match and if mainstream knows any pool players at all it would be them IMO. Johnnyt

The IPT tried Sigel vs. Loree Jon and it flopped. I'm with you, you need "current" players, who are still active. Jeanette and Earl would be a good match, much better than Sigel vs. Loree Jon. I've already seen the crowds that pack in to see Jeanette play one of the men, and the same thing occurs anytime a top woman is matched up with a man. When Allison and Karen were playing at DCC last year, they got some of the biggest crowds.

Pool is missing out on a natural way to sell our sport. Some enterprising promoter will pick up on this and do something someday. Trudeau had the right idea here, he just failed to follow through. In other words, he dogged it! He had the nine straight in and miscued!

I strongly suspect that Jasmin Ouschan is the most well known female player in Asia and Europe now thanks to her stellar television performances during the WTBC. She could draw crowds just playing exhibition matches against men, and probably make more money than she can on the WPBT. But why would she want to do something like that? :wink: