Jasmin Suspended

Compairing to golf

Since the WPA is the governing body(if I'm understanding it right) that the wpba is part of , then why isn?t it ran like golf as everyone alludes to. The pga posts its scheduled long before the tour begins & the players read & then COMITT to selected tour events, this is where the sponsors pick their $$$$ spots to advertise or at lease pour more $$$ into certain events due to who's(tiger,phil,sergio,ect) playing,this is logic at its best & business smart(1st rule in business"if it isn?t cost effective then it don't fly").Correct me if I'm off base but it seems that pool needs better leadership in the form of a say a George Stinebrenner,Deane Beman or the likes.This is a business and needs to be structured as such but I'm not seeing that here,I'mho the pool world needs to quit putting players & ex players in the management seat & get a business wise CEO & let the players submit their ideas & desires & just leave the business end to the pros(to many chiefs & not enough Indians makes war laughable at best). just my 2 cents & i may want 1 back
 
8&snap said:
Since the WPA is the governing body(if I'm understanding it right) that the wpba is part of , then why isn?t it ran like golf as everyone alludes to. The pga posts its scheduled long before the tour begins & the players read & then COMITT to selected tour events, this is where the sponsors pick their $$$$ spots to advertise or at lease pour more $$$ into certain events due to who's(tiger,phil,sergio,ect) playing,this is logic at its best & business smart(1st rule in business"if it isn?t cost effective then it don't fly").Correct me if I'm off base but it seems that pool needs better leadership in the form of a say a George Stinebrenner,Deane Beman or the likes.This is a business and needs to be structured as such but I'm not seeing that here,I'mho the pool world needs to quit putting players & ex players in the management seat & get a business wise CEO & let the players submit their ideas & desires & just leave the business end to the pros(to many chiefs & not enough Indians makes war laughable at best). just my 2 cents & i may want 1 back
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Don Mackey - Tour failed under his "leadership" drove the women to create the Classic Tour. Don ran off with money.

Keven Trudeau - Big Vision - Equally Big Promise - Came up Short on both funds and big buyers for his vision.

The WPBA Classic Tour - the longest running and most successful professional pocket billiards tournament series in history.

The WPBA - the oldest continuous pocket billiards professional organization.

The difference? The WPBA is ran by a board that is elected by it's players. The players subjugate themselves to the board's decisions. The players vote on major changes to the structure of the organization and the tour.

On the professional side of the game the WPBA is carrying the torch for professional pool in the United States and even around the world as it's matches are rebroadcast on ESPN Asia.

If EARL STRICKLAND had done the same thing that Jasmin did then half of you who are condemning the WPBA would be instead saying that Earl is not bigger than the game.

Once you make a high profile player larger than the game itself then the game suffers. Jasmin Ouschan is a tremendous player. She is in the company of other tremendous players. She is NOT however the face of the WPBA. If she wants to BE the face of the WPBA then she has to earn it. And she knows this. Part of earning it is to play within the rules OR accept the consequences of disobeying them.

I like the fact that Jasmin opted to play in the WTBC. I think that she did in fact prove that women can hang with the guys. I don't like the fact that she is barred from two tournaments in the WPBA.

I predict however that this will only make her stronger and more determined.

I think that the WPBA schedule is posted far enough in advance for players to make their plans.
 
this is crazy

It seems that the issue with professional billiards is that there isnt anything consistent. Why is it that the WPA and WPBA and other organizations dont work together on all events so conflicts like this are non issues? If they do occur, the more prestigious event should have priority for players that choose to go or allow a certain amount of waivers.

I do agree that Jasmine couldve and normally should make the WPBA events her priority HOWEVER, having a WPBA member competing in a world event is a huge step up in my mind! I would think the WPBA would support one of their own to attend and do well because that only gives them more attention and potentially more fans to come and watch events. There is no better press for the women than to see one of them compete with the men and do well! This is good for professional pool period not just one organization!

I can see both sides of this issue but I think the real issue here is why isnt there more communication between the professional billiard organizations? Why is every one of them so independent? If everyone wants billiards to survive, grow and become more streamlined and successful it shouldnt be too difficult to set aside the selfishness, pride or arrogance whatever it is and make it work! The lack of interest by the public isnt damaging pool, the lack of cooperation and strategic thinking and marketing by the so called governing bodies is whats damaging pool..........although the WPBA is the best of any of them as far as marketing goes!

Just another opinion!
 
An appeal should delay the 2 event suspension until after the review. This is where a players association would be nice. Right or wrong she is getting screwed if no ruling can be made before the next event.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
An appeal should delay the 2 event suspension until after the review. This is where a players association would be nice. Right or wrong she is getting screwed if no ruling can be made before the next event.
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Seems reasonable. I guess however that Jasmin probably knew of this well in advance of this event. I think if she did file her appeal in a timely manner then the WPBA should have granted a deferment until after the review.
 
The WPBA should be jumping at thier players doing more of the mens events. When the likes of Jasmin play and do well it only helps legitamise (spelling sorry) the illusion that the WPBA has "64 of the Worlds Greatest Players". Or so they want all the veiwers of ESPN to believe.

Now please understand that I do think there are quite a few great players, but the low end aren't pros by a long shot.

And I won't be watching the PPV, and will send the board an email with my disaproval of their choice in this matter (I fear that it will turn into another Jean thing, what a waiste of greatness:frown: :frown: :frown: ).

Pete
 
If the purpose of the rule is to make sure all the top players are at the WPBA events to protect the sponsors, what good does it do to suspend her from 2 more events?????????????
It doesn't make sense. They should do like NASCAR and take away points from her if they really feel like she needs to be "punished".

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
If the purpose of the rule is to make sure all the top players are at the WPBA events to protect the sponsors, what good does it do to suspend her from 2 more events?????????????
It doesn't make sense. They should do like NASCAR and take away points from her if they really feel like she needs to be "punished".

Steve
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Steve,
Tremendous point....I never thought of it that way....I wonder if the board has considered your point. If they have thought of this, and suspended her anyway; then it certainly raises the question of whether there are personal agenda's/jealousies/vendetta's involved.
 
what ever happens this year was not a good year for pool... men not getting paid, WPBA suspending a woman for competing in open events. It all has me playing and watching less pool.

Pool is becoming more and more like poker... A pro pool player is really moving all-in entering an event.
 
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Williebetmore said:
Steve,
Tremendous point....I never thought of it that way....I wonder if the board has considered your point. If they have thought of this, and suspended her anyway; then it certainly raises the question of whether there are personal agenda's/jealousies/vendetta's involved.
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I don't believe that this is a case of agendas/vendettas/ or jealousies.

It's about upholding the rules.

She needed the waiver to play in the WTBC. She didn't receive that waiver, and made the decision to go - bypassing the WPBA event. It was her decision, and now she has to deal with the consequences of that decision. Those are the rules, and the rules aren't a secret, and its a sure bet that Jasmin knew of the possible consequences when she made that decision.

The rules are set in place to be followed, not broken. She didn't obtain the waiver, and written notification needs to be accompanied by the waiver if she chose to participate in the WTBC. That is what this is about. The board had no choice but to take action, and the appeal is just part of the process. Contrary to popular belief, no matter who violated this rule, the action by the Board of Directors would have been the same and consistent with the tour bylaws. Following the rules that have been set in place is BIG part of being a member of the WPBA.

IMO, the facts support the case that this is more about enforcing this rule than it is about personal issues or drama. In the end, it is ultimately the player's responsibility to ensure that they abide by all the tour rules and regulations. That being said, I fully expect the suspension to be upheld upon appeal and justifiably so.

FTR, I don't agree with every decision that the WPBA has made recently, but then again my opinion doesn't make their world stop turning either. In this case, they are right - like it or not.
 
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Did the WPBA release information? I saw that Jasmin stated she followed guidelines and WPBA was yet to respond to her statement.
 
Blackjack said:
I don't believe that this is a case of agendas/vendettas/ or jealousies.

It's about upholding the rules.

She needed the waiver to play in the WTBC. She didn't receive that waiver, and made the decision to go - bypassing the WPBA event. It was her decision, and now she has to deal with the consequences of that decision. Those are the rules, and the rules aren't a secret, and its a sure bet that Jasmin knew of the possible consequences when she made that decision.

The rules are set in place to be followed, not broken. She didn't obtain the waiver, and written notification needs to be accomanied by the waiver if she chose to participate in the WTBC. That is what this is about. The board had no choice but to take action, and the appeal is just part of the process. Contrary to popular belief, no matter who violated this rule, the action by the Board of Directors would have been the same and consistent with the tour bylaws. Following the rules that have been set in place is BIG part of being a member of the WPBA.

IMO, the facts support the case that this is more about enforcing this rule than it is about personal issues or drama. In the end, it is ultimately the player's responsibility to ensure that they abide by all the tour rules and regulations. That being said, I fully expect the suspension to be upheld upon appeal and justifiably so.

FTR, I don't agree with every decision that the WPBA has made recently, but then again my opinion doesn't make their world stop turning either. In this case, they are right - like it or not.
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The point is the punishment is way too much. Is loss of two tournaments in these bylaws...I think not. Me thinks the contract is written so it's iron clad for the WPBA and plenty of Grey area's to use as they see fit...depending on who it involves. Great to have you posting again Blackjack. Johnnyt
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Did the WPBA release information? I saw that Jasmin stated she followed guidelines and WPBA was yet to respond to her statement.
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Here is Jasmin's comment from the Az Home Page

"Of course I am surprised about the decision and disappointed but I also have to understand the WPBA who wants to protect their tour. But I made my decision in time and announced it according to their rules. As a sportswoman I stand up to my decision that I chose to play in a World Championship, which was sanctioned by the World Pool Association (WPA) the only institution in our sport which has also the WPBA as a member. I think it was the right decision since a World Championship is one of the highest event in sport. That these two events were conflicting is not my fault but now I am the one who has to pay for it.?"

According to Jasmin, she made her decision and announced it. She never says anything about applying for the waiver, or the waiver being denied.

In the end it is ultimately the player's responsibility to ensure that they are not in violation of the tour rules.

It's that simple.
 
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I wouldn't really expect a response from the WPBA. Typically, when an organization and an individual (in sports) have an issue relating to suspension, termination, etc., the individual may make a comment (such as posting on their own personal blog), but the organization rarely makes a comment back.


PJ
 
Just some input from someone who has seen both sides. I remember standing in line for pictures with Monica Webb at the IPT and asking her how the WPBA players finally got approval to play, and she said the Board members were sequestered and hammering out an agreement right then.

Also, all the women were out of the IPT tournament by the time the WPBA's event started. Sarah Ellerby was the last woman standing and flew red-eye I believe to make it to IL. So there really turned out to be no conflict.

I remember signing a WPBA contract back in the 90's and that stipulation was there then, and thinking that I would need a waiver to attend $1000 added regional events or even our podunk weekly tournaments. :shocked2:

Of course, I was small potatoes and they really didn't care. I was a single mom supporting 2 kids alone and a mortgage to pay for. The fact that I made more than Allison by NOT playing pool at my job and never really practicing due to time constraints relegated me to the bottom of the WPBA standings. That and I couldn't run 2 balls, lol. ;) It was probably more of an accomplishment that I won qualifiers at all. (I won 3 in the same year - one for WA/OR State Championships (with a Canadian in the Finals with me), one in the N. CA tour and one on the S. CA tour).

I probably made more over the years in those podunk weekly tournaments than I did in the WPBA. I think unless you are a top dog, the semi-pros have it pretty good...able to play without sanctioning in amateur events and leagues. Our own Tammy Wesley Jones has done very well for herself, winning a lot of regional and national events.

Moving forward for the WPBA, I agree that the reduction in points would be the best resolution. It penalizes the player, but in a way that they can make up if they are strong players. Having Jasmin miss 3 events penalizes the WPBA, the fans, the sponsors, and the sport, not just Jasmin. While Jasmin is not the face of the WPBA, she is certainly the face of a new breed of women players - strong, fearless, and able to contend with the elite men players. Go Jazzy!!!!
 
Johnnyt said:
The point is the punishment is way too much. Is loss of two tournaments in these bylaws...I think not. Me thinks the contract is written so it's iron clad for the WPBA and plenty of Grey area's to use as they see fit...depending on who it involves. Great to have you posting again Blackjack. Johnnyt
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Thanks Johnny.

The 2 event suspension is what the Board deemed as appropriate in this situation. I'm not sure why the same punishment wasn't considered in the other incident, but the board is elected by the players to make these tough calls - and in the end and after all the appeals, their point of view is the important point of view.
 
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