JB's AZB

[Mr. Wilson]

I wrote it (period?) did you read it verbatim, (that means ever (every?) word), or just common (comment?) on part of the post?

Bruce, Bruce, Bruce...


Hope the red lettering helps above.


Verbatim refers to a quote, not how well he read or comprehended your words....which can be a challenge at times.
If he was quoting you verbatim it would be word for word, not reading what you wrote.
Subtle but important differences.

 

[JB Cases]

This post of yours is a good example of why no one should believe anything you say.

You came to St. Louis and said, “Let’s play for a $100 a game. I only brought a thousand. I’ll let you off easy.”

$40K? First time this number has come up. More like you said, “I’ll cover all side bets and stack it up to $30K.” Of course you crawfished on that. A few months from now you’ll be talking about how you wanted to bet $80K, lol.

I wasn’t at the SBC and had no idea what you were up to. Besides, all you had to do was say “Yes” and gone on with whatever you were doing at your booth.

Lastly: Head games? Just go look at your posts for the five months leading to the match if you want to see “head games.”

Lou Figueroa

I said on this forum BEFORE I came that I would come to St. Louis and if I did then I would play you only if we froze up the whole amount so neither of us could back out after playing for smaller stakes.

When I got there I asked you to play knowing full well that you were NOT going to play. If you had played then I would have asked you to freeze up the all of it so that we would have to play in March.

I said double the bet and freeze it all up at least three times before March 1st Lou. One of them WHILE I was still at DCC where you claimed that someone present with you offered you UNLIMITED backing.

All that's probably still on AZB if we go back through the threads. But it's true and many here know it.

As for your SBE (not SBC) move...sorry but I took it as an affront that you ignored all offers previously to double the bet. As you stated in your "opus" all of your moves were directed by your backer. So if it wasn't planned to try and jack me around a few days before the match it worked out that way anyway.

All you had to do on THREE occasions before March 1st was to say YES to freezing up 20k and you would have had SURE bet of 20k instead of a maybe bet of 10. As it was you left the door open for me to walk at 3k. Not very smart when your fish was eagerly trying to jump into the boat for 20k. You misplayed your hand and only got some of what you could have gotten.

What was your take Lou? Did you at least get 5k? Just curious. Were you actually backed as in you don't have to put up any money or did the other guy just bet what he wanted over what you bet? I am sure you won't tell us but I heard you only made 2k out of it. If true that's awfully sad in my opinion. But I am sure you had a good time and the victory of me had to bring you some satisfaction.

Why don't we get it out the mud though and instead of playing a chump how about you play someone like Stan? I will put up $20,000 for Stan to play you a 10 ahead set of one pocket at The Break on your favorite table or whatever you guys agree on. I haven't talked to Stan but I am fairly sure he will play. You already beat me, you beat pros now and then so step up and play the leading aiming system guy in America. Should be cake for you and you can take my cash again and get another moral victory.

I can wire the money to Terry any day as soon as he tells me your 20 is ready to go. And if I look under the pillow and find another 10k we can bet that too.

Think your backer has the balls to do that?

Do you?

 

[Moet.1977]

Money

BREAKING NEWS: Robin Williams - dead @ 63; suicide

(sorry for the derail JT)

John I have read this whole thread, and it's very entertaining. But have you every thought that back having a backer, that it adds more pressure on you. I mean you're not just losing or own money, it's someone else hard earned cash. It also seems like your trying to insinuate that Lou doesn't have this kind of money, but you do. Even a lot of money and owning a good business, can't buy class that something you etheir have or don't. After you go back and reread this, do you really think your coming out looking like a classy person.

 

[lfigueroa]

I said on this forum BEFORE I came that I would come to St. Louis and if I did then I would play you only if we froze up the whole amount so neither of us could back out after playing for smaller stakes.

When I got there I asked you to play knowing full well that you were NOT going to play. If you had played then I would have asked you to freeze up the all of it so that we would have to play in March.

I said double the bet and freeze it all up at least three times before March 1st Lou. One of them WHILE I was still at DCC where you claimed that someone present with you offered you UNLIMITED backing.

All that's probably still on AZB if we go back through the threads. But it's true and many here know it.

As for your SBE (not SBC) move...sorry but I took it as an affront that you ignored all offers previously to double the bet. As you stated in your "opus" all of your moves were directed by your backer. So if it wasn't planned to try and jack me around a few days before the match it worked out that way anyway.

All you had to do on THREE occasions before March 1st was to say YES to freezing up 20k and you would have had SURE bet of 20k instead of a maybe bet of 10. As it was you left the door open for me to walk at 3k. Not very smart when your fish was eagerly trying to jump into the boat for 20k. You misplayed your hand and only got some of what you could have gotten.

What was your take Lou? Did you at least get 5k? Just curious. Were you actually backed as in you don't have to put up any money or did the other guy just bet what he wanted over what you bet? I am sure you won't tell us but I heard you only made 2k out of it. If true that's awfully sad in my opinion. But I am sure you had a good time and the victory of me had to bring you some satisfaction.

Why don't we get it out the mud though and instead of playing a chump how about you play someone like Stan? I will put up $20,000 for Stan to play you a 10 ahead set of one pocket at The Break on your favorite table or whatever you guys agree on. I haven't talked to Stan but I am fairly sure he will play. You already beat me, you beat pros now and then so step up and play the leading aiming system guy in America. Should be cake for you and you can take my cash again and get another moral victory.

I can wire the money to Terry any day as soon as he tells me your 20 is ready to go. And if I look under the pillow and find another 10k we can bet that too.

Think your backer has the balls to do that?

Do you?

John, you lost me the second you wrote, “I said on this forum BEFORE that I would ______________." (Fill in the blank with whatever JB lie of your choosing).

As to playing anyone else, I don’t need yours or anyone else’s help to get into trouble. The list of guys that can beat beat is quite long. And like Dr. Dave said a couple of days ago on this subject, “I would never play somebody better than me for a large sum of money. That's just silly.”

Put another way, "Heart is very easy to confuse with stupid." YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JB Cases]

John, you lost me the second you wrote, “I said on this forum BEFORE that I would ______________." (Fill in the blank with whatever JB lie of your choosing).

As to playing anyone else, I don’t need yours or anyone else’s help to get into trouble. The list of guys that can beat beat is quite long. And like Dr. Dave said a couple of days ago on this subject, “I would never play somebody better than me for a large sum of money. That's just silly.”

Put another way, "Heart is very easy to confuse with stupid." YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

So you admit that Stan is better than you.

As for calling me a liar....sorry but that don't fly pal, I said it when I was in OKC in December or Jan.. I said I will come to St. Louis TODAY and we can play 500 or 1000 a game IF we agree to freeze up the whole 10 for March.

You said you would not play.

You want to bet 10k right now that I am right? Of course you don't. Because you know I am. I know what I said. And if the threads are still there then it's all there. Bet it or stop calling me a liar. Put your money where your mouth is or do you need you ask your backer first? He probably read every word I wrote and knows I am telling it like it is.

As for you and me, you are not better. You are a decent player, not a world beater and not even an A player. You're a B player like me who occasionally rises into the A category on a good day. There are a dozen players in OKC who couldn't beat Shirley Temple whom would rob you for any amount.

Again kudos for showing up. Don't act like you beat someone though because you didn't. You beat me. You might not be able to do it again. We might not ever find out.

But you're right to duck Stan. #1 you already know he is better precisely because he has a better way to aim and just as much experience as a player as you have, #2. your backer won't back you against anyone else for significant cash and we all know you don't have the cojones to bet your own.

 

[JB Cases]

John I have read this whole thread, and it's very entertaining. But have you every thought that back having a backer, that it adds more pressure on you. I mean you're not just losing or own money, it's someone else hard earned cash. It also seems like your trying to insinuate that Lou doesn't have this kind of money, but you do. Even a lot of money and owning a good business, can't buy class that something you etheir have or don't. After you go back and reread this, do you really think your coming out looking like a classy person.

I don't disagree with this. I have said many times that I think having a backer adds pressure because of playing on someone else's money for players of our caliber for sure. For pros I think it's the opposite, I think having a backer relieves pressure for them.

I don't know what Lou has or doesn't have. I know that he won't bet anything significant of his own money.

I stand with Grady on this that when it all comes down to it the guy that bets his own, REGARDLESS of stature, stands taller than the man who plays on someone else's money.

It may smarter to play on other people's money, it might be more or less pressure, but it's still not YOUR loss when you lose. No money comes out of your pocket, you only don't make any money, you don't actually lose any.

The guy who bets his own is guaranteed to lose money if he loses.

That's the difference. And it's not a small one in my eyes.

I personally would have been very sad if I went all that way, created this big fuss over a ten year rivalry and then only made a few grand while the "money guy" got the majority of the money. I went in betting my own and win or lose it was all on me.

(although I did let two brave souls take a very small percentage of the bet as moral support, thanks you two.)

P.S. Banker, regarding your notion that "class" is something you can't buy and you either have it or not. I am not trying to buy class, I am reporting the facts as they stand. If you think it's classy for Lou to repeatedly call me a liar when I am telling the truth, which can be verified on AZB and through many members, then we will have to agree to disagree on what class is. I have already stated many times that Lou was under pressure by playing for a backer's money. The overriding POINT for me though is that this man WOULD NOT PLAY for his own money.

I had asked him a dozen times to play for $100 a game and he refused. The few times he saw me in person AFTER I made that offer he would not play. Not even a peep. He walked into one of the the biggest action rooms in LA and claimed he couldn't get a game when several of the biggest betting players were right there in the room with him. Then he flat out fabricated a story about it in a "trip report". A report disputed by many who were there. So, again, we can agree to disagree about what class is and who has it and who doesn't. I certainly don't claim to have it but one thing stands for sure, I am not lying about anything that happened between me and Lou.

 

[lfigueroa]

So you admit that Stan is better than you.

As for calling me a liar....sorry but that don't fly pal, I said it when I was in OKC in December or Jan.. I said I will come to St. Louis TODAY and we can play 500 or 1000 a game IF we agree to freeze up the whole 10 for March.

You said you would not play.

You want to bet 10k right now that I am right? Of course you don't. Because you know I am. I know what I said. And if the threads are still there then it's all there. Bet it or stop calling me a liar. Put your money where your mouth is or do you need you ask your backer first? He probably read every word I wrote and knows I am telling it like it is.

As for you and me, you are not better. You are a decent player, not a world beater and not even an A player. You're a B player like me who occasionally rises into the A category on a good day. There are a dozen players in OKC who couldn't beat Shirley Temple whom would rob you for any amount.

Again kudos for showing up. Don't act like you beat someone though because you didn't. You beat me. You might not be able to do it again. We might not ever find out.

But you're right to duck Stan. #1 you already know he is better precisely because he has a better way to aim and just as much experience as a player as you have, #2. your backer won't back you against anyone else for significant cash and we all know you don't have the cojones to bet your own.

(yawn) You said you would do many, many things. You lied on just about all of them.

As to beating you again, you and I both know that you will never come back for another dose. You're just beating your chest to save face. We all know it. Maybe even you admit it to yourself when you look in the mirror.

Lou Figueroa

 

[one stroke]

I said on this forum BEFORE I came that I would come to St. Louis and if I did then I would play you only if we froze up the whole amount so neither of us could back out after playing for smaller stakes.

When I got there I asked you to play knowing full well that you were NOT going to play. If you had played then I would have asked you to freeze up the all of it so that we would have to play in March.

I said double the bet and freeze it all up at least three times before March 1st Lou. One of them WHILE I was still at DCC where you claimed that someone present with you offered you UNLIMITED backing.

All that's probably still on AZB if we go back through the threads. But it's true and many here know it.

As for your SBE (not SBC) move...sorry but I took it as an affront that you ignored all offers previously to double the bet. As you stated in your "opus" all of your moves were directed by your backer. So if it wasn't planned to try and jack me around a few days before the match it worked out that way anyway.

All you had to do on THREE occasions before March 1st was to say YES to freezing up 20k and you would have had SURE bet of 20k instead of a maybe bet of 10. As it was you left the door open for me to walk at 3k. Not very smart when your fish was eagerly trying to jump into the boat for 20k. You misplayed your hand and only got some of what you could have gotten.

What was your take Lou? Did you at least get 5k? Just curious. Were you actually backed as in you don't have to put up any money or did the other guy just bet what he wanted over what you bet? I am sure you won't tell us but I heard you only made 2k out of it. If true that's awfully sad in my opinion. But I am sure you had a good time and the victory of me had to bring you some satisfaction.

Why don't we get it out the mud though and instead of playing a chump how about you play someone like Stan? I will put up $20,000 for Stan to play you a 10 ahead set of one pocket at The Break on your favorite table or whatever you guys agree on. I haven't talked to Stan but I am fairly sure he will play. You already beat me, you beat pros now and then so step up and play the leading aiming system guy in America. Should be cake for you and you can take my cash again and get another moral victory.

I can wire the money to Terry any day as soon as he tells me your 20 is ready to go. And if I look under the pillow and find another 10k we can bet that too.

Think your backer has the balls to do that?

Do you?

The fact is you said you would cover all bets to 30k match day ,, Lou and others brought more money and you did not stick to your word ,, I believe also there were other bets here that you canceled ,,

1

 

[JB Cases]

(yawn) You said you would do many, many things. You lied on just about all of them.

As to beating you again, you and I both know that you will never come back for another dose. You're just beating your chest to save face. We all know it. Maybe even you admit it to yourself when you look in the mirror.

Lou Figueroa

We will see. I will be in the states in a few months permanently. When I am settled then I will start to think about what offer to make for us to play again. I learned a lot the first time and know what I need to do for round two. But I predict that when I show up with the cash you will not play.

But....we will see....if it doesn't happen then it doesn't happen. Until then savor it and stay just as "classy" as you have always been.

 

[JB Cases]

The fact is you said you would cover all bets to 30k match day ,, Lou and others brought more money and you did not stick to your word ,, I believe also there were other bets here that you canceled ,,

1

That's right, I changed my mind. Happens. That's why people FREEZE up money in advance.

That's why, when a sucker offers to double the bet and freeze up the WHOLE amount in advance you don't hesitate to call him on it.

When that sucker offers it twice more you are either a fool or scared if you don't take him up on it.

If that sucker then decides after three offers not to offer it any more then you lost the opportunity. Sorry.

As for the bets here....again I canceled them because threads kept getting closed and deleted. San Jose Dick was a little too rambunctious and it derailed the threads. So if I couldn't keep track I and detail my journey unmolested I decided not to bet on here.

I made my reasons clear.

Now you're going to rag on me because I played just for 10k and not for 30k?

That's funny.

 

[pocket]

Please god. Make it all stop.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Please god. Make it all stop.

AMEN....:thumbup:

 

[one stroke]

That's right, I changed my mind. Happens. That's why people FREEZE up money in advance.

That's why, when a sucker offers to double the bet and freeze up the WHOLE amount in advance you don't hesitate to call him on it.

When that sucker offers it twice more you are either a fool or scared if you don't take him up on it.

If that sucker then decides after three offers not to offer it any more then you lost the opportunity. Sorry.

As for the bets here....again I canceled them because threads kept getting closed and deleted. San Jose Dick was a little too rambunctious and it derailed the threads. So if I couldn't keep track I and detail my journey unmolested I decided not to bet on here.

I made my reasons clear.

Now you're going to rag on me because I played just for 10k and not for 30k?

That's funny.

10k as you say might be under your pillow tonight not sweat off your back I have seen people bet that with one roll of the dice so excuse me if I'm not impressed
However a mans word is a mans word ,


1

 

[cueaddicts]

Yes.....please

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

However a mans word is a mans word

Not in year 2014, even written contracts don't much, unless you are dealing with honest people.

Yes a mans word, or hand shake had meaning years ago in business, not no more.

 

[xplor]

Lou Figueroa is the Champion. John Barton is the looser. Who has John played to earn a rematch?

 

[TATE]

...so step up and play the leading aiming system guy in America.

John,

Is this really still about aiming systems? I don't think so anymore. You and Lou each want to be right. In that regard, neither can win! It's like arguing if red is better than blue. It's absolutely futile!

You both should just stand back and savor your adversarial relationship. Let this be a closed chapter where you two met, battled on a big stage, and parted ways. Few people will ever develop a mortal enemy, which is where you and Lou are headed if not already there. Standing here and trying to kick each other in the balls from this point on demeans the event as it happened. My advice is to bury it and ignore future discussions. Leave Lou in your past as an adversary, not an enemy. Main thing, leave him in your past. Same advice for Lou.

Many years ago, I had an encounter of this nature myself against an aiming system proponent who publicly challenged my ability. I beat him in 9 ball 11-3. Even though he lost, I could see where his aiming system helped his game. And I respected his game. What I think he didn't take into account is aiming is just one thing. Admittedly it's a big thing, but we are not playing "HORSE". If we were equally good at aiming, I was a more seasoned and skilled player in many other areas. Cue ball control, knowledge, experience, nerves, all these things are very important at playing your best. It was an AZ member and I never discussed it on AZ. I quietly made my point and was satisfied with that.

Chris

 

[JB Cases]

John,

Is this really still about aiming systems? I don't think so anymore. You and Lou each want to be right. In that regard, neither can win! It's like arguing if red is better than blue. It's absolutely futile!

You both should just stand back and savor your adversarial relationship. Let this be a closed chapter where you two met, battled on a big stage, and parted ways. Few people will ever develop a mortal enemy, which is where you and Lou are headed if not already there. Standing here and trying to kick each other in the balls from this point on demeans the event as it happened. My advice, bury it and ignore future discussions. Leave Lou in your past as an adversary, not an enemy. Main thing, leave him in your past. Same advice for Lou.

Many years ago, I had an encounter of this nature myself against an aiming system proponent who publicly challenged my ability. I beat him in 9 ball 11-3. Even though he lost, I could see where his aiming system helped his game. And I respected his game. What I think he didn't take into account is aiming is just one thing. Admittedly it's a big thing, but we are not playing "HORSE". If we were equally good at aiming, I was a more seasoned and skilled player in many other areas. Cue ball control, knowledge, experience, nerves, all these things are very important at playing your best. It was an AZ member and I never discussed it on AZ. I made my point and was satisfied with that.

Chris

Chris, I don't consider Lou to be a mortal enemy or even anything close to that. I consider him to be a guy who stands on the other side of the fence as me philosophically when it comes to how to play pool in ONE aspect of the game. Other than that I don't think he evil (like I consider some other folks on here to actually be). I think he is a guy with quirks like a lot of folks.

I respect the hell out of him for actually going through with it even on someone else's money. I don't respect the way he handled it afterward. There were a lot of inaccuracies in his story but hey, to the victor goes the spoils.

I have never said one thing different than you said above about aiming systems. In contrast I have said EXACTLY what you have said, that it's only one aspect of the game and that all parts are needed to play a solid game.

My point in asking Lou to play Stan is that if Lou HONESTLY thinks I am a chump whom he easily beat then let him play the guy whom he, Lou, has really atttacked more than me. That woud be Stan Shuffett. Like Lou's backer I am more than willing to back my guy if my guy is willing to play. He might not be, I don't know.

But in the interim I will take Lou's admission that Stan is a better player. At least he knows that much.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

It's like arguing if red is better than blue.

I can answer that one Chris.

Blue Harleys are better than Red ones.

Red, its a good color for Fire Trucks and the color of blood.

Speaking of Blood. Red plastic or red on certain fishing lures can signal that a fish is wounded. Easy prey.

See, both colors are good. Just so happens that Blue is better.

I will be coming out with a new Aiming System DVD soon. TOB. Touch of Blue.

 

[JB Cases]

10k as you say might be under your pillow tonight not sweat off your back I have seen people bet that with one roll of the dice so excuse me if I'm not impressed
However a mans word is a mans word ,


1

Keyword "seen", not did. Until you step up to play for 10k you don't know what it's like.

There is no "man's word" when it comes to gambling. If a guy calls off a bet BEFORE the match or game starts then it's off.

You think I can't call a bookie and lay a bet today and call it off tomorrow? Of course I can, for the exact same reason I could call him and bet more or even change my bet to the other side - you can do anything you want BEFORE the match starts unless you froze up the money and the terms before the match.

That's WHY people freeze up the money. That's WHY people make stipulations to that effect.

That's WHY people can change their bets, change their minds, bet or not at every casino on Earth UNTIL the dice are cast, until the ball drops, until the cards are dealt. Until the money is posted or the game has started then any side can change their mind.