Jeanette Lee's "American Chopper" episode on tonight
- Thread starter beav99_4life
- Start date
The bike was commissioned by the guys that own Liquidwick Cues. That should tell you something. If they can't design a pool cue that works, how are they gonna design a chopper that has much pool-related to it?JMHO
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Tells me LW is throwing more marketing money at their product on top of the JL contract.
I caught part of the show that aired - great PR for Diamond and JL IMO.
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naaaa...i don't think so...if that was true..then why did George Breedlove say on the show..."i'm not gonna let her ride it...gonna start her out on a 100cc" ?she rides bikes all the time...
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
How anyone can dump on good publicity is beyond me.
Though this is going to kill my chance of riding the bike; I have to say that the motorcycle guys on this thread are absolutely correct. That bike is WELL below the old standard when Paul Jr. was building/designing.
I have not kept up with the show, and did not realize that Jr. had left. Senior just took a gas tank off the shelf, welded some rods on the fenders, then got a fancy paint job for an almost stock bike. I knew he liked the old simple choppers; but that is NOT what I have come to expect from a custom OCC bike. Senior was just looking for shortcuts at every opportunity
They should have had Paul Jr. and Vinnie design something, now THAT would have been smokin'. Does anyone ever remember Paul Jr. not making his own tank, bars, seats, pipes, and fenders??? This whole OCC thing just shocked the hell out of me;; Paul Sr. looks like he will have no impact on the custom bike world...he sold out.
I have not kept up with the show, and did not realize that Jr. had left. Senior just took a gas tank off the shelf, welded some rods on the fenders, then got a fancy paint job for an almost stock bike. I knew he liked the old simple choppers; but that is NOT what I have come to expect from a custom OCC bike. Senior was just looking for shortcuts at every opportunity
They should have had Paul Jr. and Vinnie design something, now THAT would have been smokin'. Does anyone ever remember Paul Jr. not making his own tank, bars, seats, pipes, and fenders??? This whole OCC thing just shocked the hell out of me;; Paul Sr. looks like he will have no impact on the custom bike world...he sold out.
Used to watch OCC all the time and Paul Jr. was always very innovative.
Too bad him and pops have a riff that's gone beyond what we watched in the shows.
But on a side note -
I don't see a post from you in response to post #7 in this thread
"The bike was commissioned by the guys that own Liquidwick Cues. That should tell you something.
If they can't design a pool cue that works, how are they gonna design a chopper that has much pool-related to it?"
Maybe I missed Scotts' thorough review. If it exists then my bad.
It was probably important enough for you to lambast me in the other thread concerning Liquidwick.
I tried the cue when it came to market which qualifies my opinion.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2152701&postcount=12
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Dartman...I've already apologized for my "off the cuff" remark. I too 'tried' the LW cues, when they came out, and didn't think much of them. What was your appraisal?
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Saw that but personally didn't think it was necessary. What I have seen and see now is a company using slick marketing but not really doing much for the billiards industry in terms of sponsorship ala Diamond. I've yet to see anyone post a review, positive or negative about the cue. I'll guess some that own one will swear by it and like everything in these parts, everyone has an opinion. Personally I put this in the same category as the glass top pool table and the overpriced slate dolly.
I gave the cue a try when LW introduced it at BCA several years ago and whatever material they put inside felt pretty strange. My attention went to the fluid sound/feel rather then to the business end of the cue.
Had asked their rep if it was liquid inside (Liquidwick?) and was told it was something like sand or silica. When I commented on the video they were showing the guy stated, sex sells, and went on about other similar videos they were going to produce. I came away with the impression that how they marketed the cue rather then how the cue played was the direction they were going.
Getting JL on contract will surely help their sales and I can only imagine what that contract is worth. She's not cheap. Maybe the next time someone spots her playing they can tell us if she's actually using a LW cue.
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D-man,
No need to correct Scott as noted by him.
You definitely are on the wrong page here - this has been discussed before on the forum. The product you tested was NOT their playing cue, it was a game improvement teaching aid - designed to be used in practice, not in play. It helps train the student for a smooth (not abrupt) transition from backswing to foreswing. Swing without the sand shifting and you've made a decent transition - to my knowledge that is all that "cue" is designed to do.
LW also has been trying to market a different playing cue with as many advanced features as possible that can retail for under $100. Pro taper, decent tip and ferrule, maple shaft that is straight. I've tested a prototype extensively, (not sure where it is for sale or if it is for sale) and can find no difference between it and a $200 plain McDermott or a $150 plain jane Joss.
I believe they are interested in selling such cues at large retail type stores (like K-Mart/WalMart) to casual and league players. I do not believe that their market for this cue is the advanced player/pool fanatic/average AZB member.
I believe that JL supported the idea that it might be a worthwhile goal to have a widely available "decent" cue for under $100. Would not more casual and novice players stay interested if they had at least a minimally decent cue for a minimal price - I think so. Good luck to LW in the venture; it could only help pool.
I'll stand partially corrected since I wasn't aware they now have a "playing" cue.
My comments/opinion still stand on the sand-shifter, break cue, training cue or whatever the original is supposed to be.
I don't recall them having a playing cue at the BCA in 2007 or mentioning the cue as a training device.
If they were at the 2009 show I didn't see them.
Just did a search and found this 2008 thread about LW in case anyone is interested.
I'm sure a lot of the posters never saw or picked up a LW cue in person (nothing new there).
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=73249&highlight=liquidwick
Also just looked at the LW website which leaves a lot to the imagination - https://www.liquidwick.com/
but can't comment on the playing cue as I've not had the pleasure of trying one. I'd agree that the specs can make it a
better alternative to the ramin shaft garbage currently sold in big box discount stores if that is the market they are targeting.
Curious what the in-store price will be if the internet special is $99
But back on topic, one of McD's old promos had JL sitting on a Harley holding a McD.
We'll have to wait and see what LW comes up with.
DM,
As of last summer their plan, I believe, was to market it at $99 no matter what (trying for the "under $100" tag).
P.S. - JL's playing cue is a "LiquidWick cue custom made by Dave Jacoby" (not the same as the cue they will market).
Yep, nothing like not using the actuala product that one endorses.
Make me wonder if she used a McD when she was on contract with them.
I never bothered to look when we had her in our store for a promo.
I'm guessing that the LW playing cue is only available on the web currently?
Would you know if it's in stores yet? If not it would seem they are dragging their feet.
DM,
I have no idea where or if they are for sale (as I mentioned in the initial post).
I personally feel that if a pro endorses a training aid, an entry level playing cue, or an instructional book for beginning players; it does not obligate them to use that product. They may have no need of the product; but that doesn't mean it might not be useful to the type of player targeted by the ad.
This cue is not being marketed towards pro's and high-end players; it is meant as an entry-level cue. If Lance Armstrong recommends training wheels for my 4 year old grandchild; I do NOT expect him to use them on his bike in the next Tour de France (but maybe some others do....oh well).
Duh, neither would anyone else and that's a rather ridiculous analogy.
Where in the advertising does it state anything about the LW being a training aid or an entry level playing cue?
What does this image say to the uninformed casual player? The Official JL cue?
If I buy an official NFL football I would expect it's the same as used on the field.
Then there's this laughable gem on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-LIQUIDWICK-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55eb34ee
Not really sure what your agenda is bud but you talk like LW is going to be the reincarnation of billiards.
There are many other low price, good quality entry level cues being sold that do not need to resort
to T&A videos and misleading endorsements. Like I said in the other thread, gullible people will buy the fluff.
Duh, neither would anyone else and that's a rather ridiculous analogy.
Where in the advertising does it state anything about the LW being a training aid or an entry level playing cue?
What does this image say to the uninformed casual player? The Official JL cue?
If I buy an official NFL football I would expect it's the same as used on the field.
Then there's this laughable gem on eBay - http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-LIQUIDWICK-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a55eb34ee
Not really sure what your agenda is bud but you talk like LW is going to be the reincarnation of billiards.
There are many other low price, good quality entry level cues being sold that do not need to resort
to T&A videos and misleading endorsements. Like I said in the other thread, gullible people will buy the fluff.
DM,
Your standards in analogies are too high - that is one damn fine analogy (at least the best I could think of on the spur of the moment:smile
. I think your "reincarnation of billiards" metaphor though is substandard (not sure how billiards could be reincarnated...).No agenda here, I don't own one, nor do I want one. I do know quite a few bar league players who could use one.
I have not even enough interest in the subject to waste the time looking at a video, ad, or website. Just passing along what might be of interest to some; and disagreeing with those who seem to be bashing pro's and products without an adequate reason. It is the hallmark of the forum that everyone is free to express their opinion (no matter how informed or uninformed), and that no one should expect to change anyone else's opinion - it seldom occurs. Welcome.
DM,
Your standards in analogies are too high - that is one damn fine analogy (at least the best I could think of on the spur of the moment:smile
No agenda here, I don't own one, nor do I want one. I do know quite a few bar league players who could use one.
I have not even enough interest in the subject to waste the time looking at a video, ad, or website. Just passing along what might be of interest to some; and disagreeing with those who seem to be bashing pro's and products without an adequate reason. It is the hallmark of the forum that everyone is free to express their opinion (no matter how informed or uninformed), and that no one should expect to change anyone else's opinion - it seldom occurs. Welcome.
Reading thru the forum there's plenty of posts on how to revive pool, why pool is dead, etc.
To reincarnate pool (bring back to life) is not going to happen because of some $99 cue.
Pro or product bashing - hardly.
My agenda is not with the cue but in the manner the company markets it and the bad karma I got from talking with the LW people in the past. Nowhere do they state it's an entry level cue, rather, they sensationalize it (moreso the break cue) as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The JL Official Cue? If that's not misleading advertising then don't know what is considering many knowledgeable people probably don't have a clue what JL shoots with so no reason to expect a newby would.
As I've said, IMO, LW aims at the gullible consumer as evidenced by the slick ads and videos. Whether you take the time to look beyond the "prototype cue" and check out the company itself is your business. There's no argument here that LW is just another inexpensive cue. Looking at it from a retailers perspective I'm sure they will do well using the marketing model they chose.
DM,
We are definitely in agreement here (and I'm sure I never said this). On to another thread. Have a great holiday season.