John and Lou, the plain truth
- Thread starter TATE
- Start date
Since you can't see it in yourself, here is your hypocrisy:
I expressed my feelings and opinion on why I am disgusted with the behavior of these grown men, playing pool for 10K over an internet argument.
I expressed my opinion that gambling for large amounts, especially when someone has a young family like John, is unwise and reckeless.
I expressed my opinion that frail ego's and AZ billiards members contributed to this confrontation.
Rather than discuss the subject, you accused me of being omniscient, telling people how to live their lives.
What is hypocritical about you is you accused me of being judgmental rather than discuss the subject. You passed judgment on me, accusing me of passing judgment on others. Do you not see that? The omniscient Chef Jeff who can see all shotcomings but his own?
I don't want to take it any further than this, criticizing you. I don't feel any animosity toward you even though you insulted me - but you asked several times now. Please just think it over.
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Yes. I am the first pool player in the history of pool to have a backer, lol. I will tell you this: I probably had more of my own money in the bet that many of the pros do when they match up ;-)
Lou Figueroa
Could you think of a more extreme example? By that measure, the opposite example might be that when you lost the match, fans of CTE would quit pool and jump off a bridge.
A more realistic example -- If you had potted and banked well, many would be influenced to give CTE a deeper look. Some more than others.
On the other hand, if you prepare for months, including private lessons with Stan Shuffett, and then play as you did... I'm sure many people on the fence about CTE would take a pass on it. If for no other reason, they can probably already match that standard of play (or higher) without it.
I enjoyed watching the match and appreciate it was streamed. Thanks to you both.
Actually many are trying CTE because of the promotion and many more will do so afterward. I know that some of you would love to think that the validity of these methods all hinged on my performance but they don't.
I can't tell you how many people have come to me and thanked them for turning them on to CTE through my videos on YouTube. They see me and then follow the links to Stan and Gerry and Mohrt's videos and they see an enthusiast in me and serious students in Gerry and Mohrt and Duke Laha and a master in Stan and a phenomenal player in Landon. The fruit of learning and mastering the method along with the rest of what's needed to play good pool is clear to the viewers when they see all those players.
My problem is between my ears. I didn't put in ENOUGH time on the table and not enough time getting mentally strong. I felt ready going in but it wasn't enough.
And sure many people can match my standard of play without CTE. That isn't the point and has never been the point.
The point is that whatever level you are at an aiming system MIGHT be of benefit to you. Again the saying a rising tide lifts all boats comes to mind.
Think about the two paths here.
1. you never learn an aiming system.
2. you learn an aiming system.
Take one hit a million balls and you learn whatever you can and get as good as you can get.
Take two and you hit a million balls and learn everything you can and get as good as you can get PLUS you have extra knowledge to use as you please.
Now let's say you're a player like me who doesn't hit a million balls but you take path two. What's wrong with having the knowledge and only hitting 250,000 balls? Nothing in my opinion because the KNOWLEDGE doesn't change it's value based on what the owner of that knowledge does with it.
Does a book lose value because the reader doesn't understand it? Or because the reader doesn't use the information inside?
If you read my original post over again, the gambling statement wasn't expressed toward you. It was expressed toward the notion, in general, that cheering on those who gamble encourages wreckless behavior.
I am not projecting my situation. I am wealthy but my wife would kill me if I made an internet pool match for 10K , so it wouldn't matter.
And would have had nothing to do with you winning had you won
Gary and Stan are good players with or without CTE.
I see you learned nothing from the thumping you took ,, there's plenty of players that can thump both your Idols also so get over it
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Let's not discuss the subject of "making sense", since I've seen videos of you playing pool.
Tate:
You's knows I's loves ya, but I'd been meaning to share my thoughts on this whole matter, without sounding judgemental myself. And that's not easy to do, considering the circumstances in this thread.
Don't mean to get in the middle of your repartee with chefjeff, but I wanted to use an extract, because the way you frame it makes it easier to reply to and still not sound judgemental. I hope you don't mind?
While I understand what you're saying here, I think you yourself are missing the part of how judgemental you are. It's a lot more than just "playing pool for 10K over an internet argument." Remember, this is a bad blood match -- which goes on all the time in our sport -- and this particular one has been going on for over 14 years. In fact, this 10K match is the CULMINATION of all that -- much more than "just an internet argument."
Here's where you went wrong -- the bolded part. That part is not only presumptive, but extremely judgemental as well.
A couple facts:
The "especially" part is where you went wrong -- you passed judgement here, whether you see it or not.
Well, you won't get an argument out of me over this. I completely agree, and am reminded of a line from the movie Gladiator related to "the mob" and how we play to "the mob."
I'm not quite sure he did that. What he did say, was that you yourself were passing judgement -- using your own opinion of what is smart and dumb (if I may use that word?) money management.
I hope you can see what I'm saying. I don't mean this to be confrontational, but rather just showing you something you perhaps can't see.
-Sean
You's knows I's loves ya, but I'd been meaning to share my thoughts on this whole matter, without sounding judgemental myself. And that's not easy to do, considering the circumstances in this thread.
Don't mean to get in the middle of your repartee with chefjeff, but I wanted to use an extract, because the way you frame it makes it easier to reply to and still not sound judgemental. I hope you don't mind?
While I understand what you're saying here, I think you yourself are missing the part of how judgemental you are. It's a lot more than just "playing pool for 10K over an internet argument." Remember, this is a bad blood match -- which goes on all the time in our sport -- and this particular one has been going on for over 14 years. In fact, this 10K match is the CULMINATION of all that -- much more than "just an internet argument."
Here's where you went wrong -- the bolded part. That part is not only presumptive, but extremely judgemental as well.
A couple facts:
- Lou is retired, so he and his wife are more than capable of deciding how best to use his retirement "enjoyment" money. In fact, you'll recall that Gail, his wife, was in large part his biggest booster for this match.
- John runs a very successful business. And as you read, John and Karen (his wife) struck an agreement in how this match was going to proceed / what was going to happen afterwards if he won or lost. She also was in large part a big booster of this match.
The "especially" part is where you went wrong -- you passed judgement here, whether you see it or not.
Well, you won't get an argument out of me over this. I completely agree, and am reminded of a line from the movie Gladiator related to "the mob" and how we play to "the mob."
I'm not quite sure he did that. What he did say, was that you yourself were passing judgement -- using your own opinion of what is smart and dumb (if I may use that word?) money management.
I hope you can see what I'm saying. I don't mean this to be confrontational, but rather just showing you something you perhaps can't see.
-Sean
Not sure what's totally going on here but....
I've seen 20 year old kids playing twenty dollar sets that were more irresponsible than this match appears to have been.
Young guys without jobs and only a few dollars to their names, flipping out over losing a few dollars and then trying to borrow a few bucks to make it back home and maybe grab a burger on the way. This isn’t even considering them having a family to take care of. I always hope they don’t have kids they are looking after.
Does that sound familiar? That's irresponsible. This grudge match -- Not so much.
I've seen 20 year old kids playing twenty dollar sets that were more irresponsible than this match appears to have been.
Young guys without jobs and only a few dollars to their names, flipping out over losing a few dollars and then trying to borrow a few bucks to make it back home and maybe grab a burger on the way. This isn’t even considering them having a family to take care of. I always hope they don’t have kids they are looking after.
Does that sound familiar? That's irresponsible. This grudge match -- Not so much.
Since you're big pimping, why didn't you take all your action, $20 player or not? Makes ZERO sense, considering you were the favorite.
I watched every ball shot in that entire match. You sold out at least once, normally twice per game. John was clearly rattled to death, maybe from Eric threatening to bash his ever-loving brains in 2 mins prior to post-time, and ball-slapped at every single shot until the 5th or 6th game. Every time you dogged-out, John ball-slapped and reverse sold out to you a ball or two later.
If you played anyone at all that had any shooting ability and level nerves, you would have been destroyed.
As TERRRRRRIBLE as John played, you only beat him by a few games. For most of the match, it looked like the winner had to blow the loser, and that's a fact.
I'm friends with both JB and Eric and would never get involved because it's between them -- but Eric shook JB up before the match and JB came a hair away from an onslaught and narrowly escaped it.
In conclusion, don't talk like you're "living huge" when you're scared to death to take your own action against a weaker player playing your best game. If I was in your loafers, with your big pimping lifestyle, I would never have allowed anyone to take a penny of my action and I would have walked on the plane with an extra $10k in my account. Wife prob didn't allow it, which is fine... just say so... at least that would make SENSE.
Exactly right.
No matter what anyone says, you and LOu both put your money where your mouth is. I would venture to guess the majority of naysayers on this thread wouldn't step up to the plate for a C note, much less 10 dimes.
Thanks for the entertainment and lessons learned!
I'd venture to say that many on here would play Lou or JB for $10 large, I know I would!!!
Well, I'd play the lady next door for 10 large, no problem.
But what I was referring to was playing another pool player, someone with a modicum of skills on a field of tournament blue.
I don't care who you are, but playing for 10 dimes would definitely put a little shake in anyone's stroke. :embarrassed2:
Jennie, was it Fats who said something to the effect of, "if the table is playing easy, just increase the bet -- those pockets will tighten up in a jiffy"?
10 large would make even recreationally-cut pockets look like thimbles. Now imagine that triple-shimmed Accu-Stats TV table, with the deep shelf!
-Sean
You've seen videos of me practice.
You've never seen me play.
Then again, not once have I ever made any claims that I'm any better than I actually am. So, not really getting whatever point it is you're trying to make.
Sean,
I understand what you're saying. Anytime someone expresses an opinion, they have made a judgment.
My impression was John and Lou goaded each other into this match, high rolled, etc. until they were simply backed into a corner and HAD to play.
My impression, after all the bet backpedaling, was the sum was already large enough for John. Lou was getting staked, so it wasn't an issue.
It's John's money. It's no skin off my nose if he loses it. My opinion was expressed in order to discourage others from thinking that betting big was an admirable thing to do. It's not, unless you're Shane.
Chris
I understand what you're saying. Anytime someone expresses an opinion, they have made a judgment.
My impression was John and Lou goaded each other into this match, high rolled, etc. until they were simply backed into a corner and HAD to play.
My impression, after all the bet backpedaling, was the sum was already large enough for John. Lou was getting staked, so it wasn't an issue.
It's John's money. It's no skin off my nose if he loses it. My opinion was expressed in order to discourage others from thinking that betting big was an admirable thing to do. It's not, unless you're Shane.
Chris