John Brumback, Scott Frost & other teachers

[Ken_4fun]

I just was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a young guy taking lessons from someone and then later beating them in either gambling or a tournament.

I saw where Skylar Woodward came in second, AHEAD, of John Brumback, but someone told me he had gone down to work with him.

With the vast amount of players and talent out there, do you guys know of any times this has happened?

Ken

 

[Scott Lee]

I would certainly hope so. It is every REAL teachers deep down desire to see their student(s) achieve a higher degree of skill, if not surpass the teacher. It's happened to me on a few occasions. Recently a Chinese pro beat his former teacher in the semis or finals of a major tournament.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I just was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a young guy taking lessons from someone and then later beating them in either gambling or a tournament.

I saw where Skylar Woodward came in second, AHEAD, of John Brumback, but someone told me he had gone down to work with him.

With the vast amount of players and talent out there, do you guys know of any times this has happened?

Ken

 

[Ken_4fun]

Scott -

I agree I think it would be great.

If Earl wasn't nuts, he could really great I think for a mentor. The same goes for Schmitty in California, and I do think he gives lessons.

IMO, the young Landon has had a great teacher in pool and life, by his father.

When I look at Justin Hall, Justin Burgman, Skylar, Landon and a ton of younger guns I think there is going to be a great "crop' of "Buddy's, Keith, Billy I, Wade Crane, Johnny Archer, Earl Stricklands" coming.....

Ken

 

[John Brumback]

Alex P. bought my dvd from me then beat me two times in two years. Does that count? LOL. John B.

 

[randyg]

I just was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a young guy taking lessons from someone and then later beating them in either gambling or a tournament.

I saw where Skylar Woodward came in second, AHEAD, of John Brumback, but someone told me he had gone down to work with him.

With the vast amount of players and talent out there, do you guys know of any times this has happened?

Ken

Ken

Happens to me a lot.
I don't know whether to frown or smile.
I guess in the end, we both won.

randyg

 

[pool101]

I think that should be the goal, if they beat you using what you taught them then you did a good job of teaching
Mark

 

[John Brumback]

I'm guessing it's been going on for... oh say a million years or so. John B.

 

[Mr. Bond]

I'm guessing it's been going on for... oh say a million years or so. John B.

Funny you should say that...

I was just reading about Jake Schaefer Sr. of Chicago....(mid 1800's - until 1910)
He was so awesome that he was dubbed "The Wizard".....
He was so awesome that game rules had to be permanently changed to stop him.....

Then came Willie Hoppe, the fresh faced newbie....
Hoppe the "boy wonder" (as a novelty) was sent out on tour with Schaefer...
Shortly thereafter, Hoppe takes the title from Schaefer...

Schaefer dies in 1910, with a teenaged son who also shoots well, Jake Schaefer Jr.
Jake Jr. is now the fresh faced newbie, and is sent out on tour with Hoppe...

Jake Jr. soon wins the title from Hoppe.
The karma cycle is complete.

 

[CJ Wiley]

'The Mentor is the Teacher'

I just was wondering if anyone has ever heard of a young guy taking lessons from someone and then later beating them in either gambling or a tournament.

I saw where Skylar Woodward came in second, AHEAD, of John Brumback, but someone told me he had gone down to work with him.

With the vast amount of players and talent out there, do you guys know of any times this has happened?

Ken

The mentorship process was the main way players like me developed in the 70s and 80s......we played and learned from other road players and passed down the knowledge. I played a lot with Buddy Hall in Tampa, John Shuput in Omaha, Dalton Leong and Rusty Brandimiere in St. Louis etc.

I don't personally know any champion players that have ever taken a less per se, they all developed from playing better players on a regular basis.

At some point we all beat our mentors and that's to be expected over the course of time. I am working with some top players now, and we all play about the same speed, so it's not that big of a deal to beat them, or for them to beat me on a given day.

'The Mentor is the Teacher'

 

[Johnnyt]

The mentorship process was the main way players like me developed in the 70s and 80s......we played and learned from other road players and passed down the knowledge. I played a lot with Buddy Hall in Tampa, John Shuput in Omaha, Dalton Leong and Rusty Brandimiere in St. Louis etc.

I don't personally know any champion players that have ever taken a less per se, they all developed from playing better players on a regular basis.

At some point we all beat our mentors and that's to be expected over the course of time. I am working with some top players now, and we all play about the same speed, so it's not that big of a deal to beat them, or for them to beat me on a given day.

'The Mentor is the Teacher'

I saw you in Bakers in Tampa I believe in the early 1980's. I didn't know who you were. I was going over to ask you to play some $5 or $10 a game 9 ball until you ran 3 racks in a very short time. So I walked right past you to the men's room. Johnnyt

 

[CJ Wiley]

Bakers was a really cool old fashioned pool room.

I saw you in Bakers in Tampa I believe in the early 1980's. I didn't know who you were. I was going over to ask you to play some $5 or $10 a game 9 ball until you ran 3 racks in a very short time. So I walked right past you to the men's room. Johnnyt

I remember that day, I played on that middle table, one of the few times I practiced there - Bakers was a really cool old fashioned pool room. Those were some wild days in Tampa, TR was staking players and Jay Flowers was around spreading joy and happiness. :wink:

Bill Armadeo is the first one that brought my attention to "The Touch of Inside" and how powerful it was at the Cue Club (I think was the name). Steve Cook was also around there quite a bit, I should have played him more one pocket, he was a great player.

That day must have been in 86 I would think, I was 21 or 22 at the time and "in full gallop"......man there was a lot of action in Florida, especially in the Miami area. Strong Arm John and I won a small fortune there in a three week period of time.

 

[bbb]

The mentorship process was the main way players like me developed in the 70s and 80s......we played and learned from other road players and passed down the knowledge. I played a lot with Buddy Hall in Tampa, John Shuput in Omaha, Dalton Leong and Rusty Brandimiere in St. Louis etc.

I don't personally know any champion players that have ever taken a less per se, they all developed from playing better players on a regular basis.

At some point we all beat our mentors and that's to be expected over the course of time. I am working with some top players now, and we all play about the same speed, so it's not that big of a deal to beat them, or for them to beat me on a given day.

'The Mentor is the Teacher'

like you said you/the other champions didnt take lessons ( i assume you meant to say that)
learning from paying your dues playing other players is really not the question of this thread imo
since noone in those days shared knowledge easily
you only learned what you could see (ie understand)\
to me thats different than the student surpassing the teacher
icbw

 

[CJ Wiley]

Hunter Lombardo is the best teacher in the country and He Plays Well Too

like you said you/the other champions didnt take lessons ( i assume you meant to say that)
learning from paying your dues playing other players is really not the question of this thread imo
since noone in those days shared knowledge easily
you only learned what you could see (ie understand)\
to me thats different than the student surpassing the teacher
icbw

Well, "beating the teacher" is only impressive if the teacher plays well. Hunter Lombardo is the best teacher in the country in the opinion of the Pros and beating him would be impressive for many players.

Hunter is a "Top 10" Touring Pro, so his credentials are in the category that when you reach the level to beat him you can actually have a chance in Pro events.

 

[cmbwsu]

Pictures Worth 1000 Words - Hoppe v Schaefer

Funny you should say that...

I was just reading about Jake Schaefer Sr. of Chicago....(mid 1800's - until 1910)
He was so awesome that he was dubbed "The Wizard".....
He was so awesome that game rules had to be permanently changed to stop him.....

Then came Willie Hoppe, the fresh faced newbie....
Hoppe the "boy wonder" (as a novelty) was sent out on tour with Schaefer...
Shortly thereafter, Hoppe takes the title from Schaefer...

Schaefer dies in 1910, with a teenaged son who also shoots well, Jake Schaefer Jr.
Jake Jr. is now the fresh faced newbie, and is sent out on tour with Hoppe...

Jake Jr. soon wins the title from Hoppe.
The karma cycle is complete.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=255645

 

[backplaying]

Well, "beating the teacher" is only impressive if the teacher plays well. Hunter Lombardo is the best teacher in the country in the opinion of the Pros and beating him would be impressive for many players.

Hunter is a "Top 10" Touring Pro, so his credentials are in the category that when you reach the level to beat him you can actually have a chance in Pro events.

Now you've done it!:thumbup:

 

[ScottyDzntKnow]

Well, "beating the teacher" is only impressive if the teacher plays well. Hunter Lombardo is the best teacher in the country in the opinion of the Pros and beating him would be impressive for many players.

Hunter is a "Top 10" Touring Pro, so his credentials are in the category that when you reach the level to beat him you can actually have a chance in Pro events.

I like everything you post Mr Wiley but I don't agree that Hunter is a top 10 pro but he does know a lot about the game.

 

[bbb]

Well, "beating the teacher" is only impressive if the teacher plays well. Hunter Lombardo is the best teacher in the country in the opinion of the Pros and beating him would be impressive for many players.

Hunter is a "Top 10" Touring Pro, so his credentials are in the category that when you reach the level to beat him you can actually have a chance in Pro events.

I like everything you post Mr Wiley but I don't agree that Hunter is a top 10 pro but he does know a lot about the game.

ive taken lessons from several well known teachers on this site
hnter lumbardo
did more to solidify my fundamentals and change my stance to change my stroke for the better than anyone else
he saw things that noone else did
HUNTER LUMBARDO IS A PRO PLAYER AND TEACHER...:thumbup:
too bad ill never beat him....:angry:...im 60 years old...

 

[Mr. Bond]

I was just reading about Jake Schaefer Sr. of Chicago....(mid 1800's - until 1910)
He was so awesome that he was dubbed "The Wizard".....
He was so awesome that game rules had to be permanently changed to stop him.....

Then came Willie Hoppe, the fresh faced newbie....
Hoppe the "boy wonder" (as a novelty) was sent out on tour with Schaefer...
Shortly thereafter, Hoppe takes the title from Schaefer...

Schaefer dies in 1910, with a teenaged son who also shoots well, Jake Schaefer Jr.
Jake Jr. is now the fresh faced newbie, and is sent out on tour with Hoppe...

Jake Jr. soon wins the title from Hoppe.
The karma cycle is complete.

And speaking of Karma....check this out, Jake Sr. even predicted that his son would avenge him, at least a decade before it actually happened....

In 1905 Jake Sr. was quoted in the newspaper:

" ...I do not know of another champion who has been at his chosen profession as long as I have, but I like the game, and will keep up my standard as long as I can. The youngster, Willie Hoppe, is fast coming to the front, and I tell you it won't be long before he will be at the top.

I guess I shall have to send my son after him for the championship honors. My boy is learning the game very fast and does some wonderful work with the cue. Some day you will hear of Schaefer and Hoppe playing for the championship, but it will not be this Jake, but Jake, Jr. "

 

[CJ Wiley]

20 "Top 10" players.

I like everything you post Mr Wiley but I don't agree that Hunter is a top 10 pro but he does know a lot about the game.

Yes, there's probably 20 "Top 10" players.....it's misleading at times.

I believe he has the potential, of course if I trained him it would be like the movie 'The Karate Kid' .. he just needs to be "toughened up" a bit, then it would be a different story. imho