Joshua Filler withdrawn from the Mosconi Cup!

[jay helfert]

All this reminds me of the PGA golf tour vs. LIV golf, but on a much smaller scale. Usually in the business world competition is a good thing that means better deals for consumers. This is not the case in the sports world though.

Even in the lofty world of pro golf this feud has hurt both entities. TV ratings are down and sponsorship money is drying up, with contracts being canceled. The best players are still making big money but at what cost. In this feud both sides are losing, both monetarily and in the court of public opinion.

This feud/war between the MR and the WPA is likewise damaging professional pool as a sport. Once again the players and their advisors are shooting themselves in the foot. I’ve seen this movie before and it has never ended well for the players. My post is a cautionary tale to all of them. Be careful what you do now. It could all go away in a moment!

I remember well the Camel Pro Tour. They were ready to go all in with Pool and that meant big money for the players. The players sided with a crooked commissioner and Camel pulled up stakes and went home, leaving them high and dry.

A decade before that a promoter named Richie Florence signed up Caesars World casinos, Budweiser and ESPN for a series of big money pro tourneys. I was present at those meetings that looked so promising for our sport. Once again the players took some bad advice and refused to sign the TV releases that are standard for all pro athlete's. That decision brought everything to an end!

We are at the precipice again. Nothing that happens now will surprise me.

 

[sjm]

Mosconi, Greenleaf, Reyes, Bustamante, Orcullo, Pagalayan, Strickland, Archer, SVB, and many others...

Does Filler really deserve Top 5 ranking of all time? He certainly has some great titles and his stats are unquestionable...but does longevity have any say in the matter? I mean, a quarterback who is best in the NFL for a few seasons isn't guaranteed the HOF, no matter how dominant....much less put in front of the likes of Brady, Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Favre, etc who all did it for more than a decade...

There have been times, such as when FSR, was winning everything a couple years ago, where Filler wasn't much of a factor.

You have been a huge Filler guy since at least 2017 when I really started paying attention, and Again, his stats since he turned pro are phenomenal, but top 5 all time...in his mid 20's? Not arguing, just wondering if that is your real belief or hyperbole.

Good post.

No, Filler's not top five ever yet, but he probably has the best resume of titles of any player in history by the age of 27. Filler, at 27, already has more major championships in his career than Bustamante and Orcullo, both of whom had fairly poor track records in the finals of majors. And, yes, he has had longevity, a proven superstar year after year for nearly a decade.

If you need help here, by age 27, Filler has won the World 9-ball, UK Open, US Open, China Open, World 8-ball, Qatar Open, European 9ball, European 14.1, European 10ball, American 14.1, the Derby City 9ball, the Derby City banks, the Derby City Master of the Table, and has been a Mosconi MVP. He also has a silver at the World 10ball.

If he continues to produce great results at this clip for another decade, at least for me, he will deserve to be called the greatest player of all time. Of course, easier said than done.

... but you are right, he cannot logically be called top five ever quite yet. Already top ten, however.

 

[The_JV]

Nonsense.

Two of the very best matches of the year were Filler vs Gorst, first at the Derby City 10-ball where Filler came from behind to win 10-9 and then at the World Pool Masters, where Gorst came from behind to win 13-12 in the final. If you equate losing Filler to losing two top Americans, you are uninformed. Filler brings as much electricity to an event as any player in the game.

Only two young players in the pro game are irreplaceable, and if we lose one of them in WNT competition, our sport takes a step backwards.

My point is. Filler is just an example of a great player opting not to compete at the highest stage. Is that a shame..?.., sure. Does it make the pro game unwatchable...?.., not even maybe.

 

[MattPoland]

tell a story

Sixth - having somebody everybody hates is more valuable than having somebody they love.

Howard stern was the perfect example- I believe people who hated him listened twice as long.

Jason<----always hated that liberal cuck lol

Thats true. He lives that up pretty well with the stand in the chair, “I’m the king now”, and the finger shushing.

I just remember when I last went and a guy yells “Tyler Styer, I want you to f&ck my girlfriend.” I think Matchroom doesn’t want anything that goes too far making the broadcast.

 

[Jaden]

If he skipped Hanoi and played in another event that would be a breach (don't recall if that was the case)?

Or if he committed to going and backed out last minute, (which I believe he did).

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Here’s my take. I’m okay if nobody reads it.

First Matchroom could have just sanctioned while building the WNT and there’d be no conflicts. If they think they can make millionaires of these players, why not wait until that value proposition is realized before creating the circumstances that forces the WPA to put a stake in the sand. Because the structure of the WPA is designed for being “in or out”. I don’t mind the cards MR are playing but they played that card too early.

Second I can’t stand that the WPA kicked out the APBU who I know was an accountability thorn in their side but then brought in ACBS who have little to do with pool and are clearly power mad and the driving force on WPA bans for non-sanctioned Asian events (Hanoi Open). And I don’t like that the ACBS tried to get the event shut down.

Third I’m sure all the “We Stand Together” was Matchroom getting the players in the room and pressuring them to post the statements. But these players are adults. They didn’t need to say anything without knowing their capacity to honor it. And certainly they didn’t need to say anything.

Fourth, Josh certainly stuck his foot in his mouth with his statements. He needs an agent or someone to review his public statements on important matters. He lost a lot of respect from fans.

Fifth, I can see taking him out of the Reyes Cup. The protests were about Asian bans. And it is a Matchroom invitational. It’s not like they are taking away his WNT tour card or banning him from open events. This is the “free money” stuff. He earned it through qualification but lost it through mishandling situations. I’ve heard he was ghosting them too which wouldn’t help.

Sixth, I’m kinda okay with taking him out of the Mosconi Cup. I hope he’s not still ghosting them. But the fans in the room were about to light him up. Enough that it could easily distract from the event in a negative way. And that’s on him.

Seventh, maybe there were terms he wouldn’t agree with. But I don’t like the idea he needed to get himself banned to be in good standing. That’s dirty politics. Players should have the choice to play both sides as long as they can. Same with Albin. And this is where Matchroom starts to look manipulative.

Eight, I wouldn’t have assumed Albin would have any long lasting consequences for missing Hanoi since he wasn’t in contention for Reyes or Mosconi Cup. But he didn’t just call Matchroom a dictatorship. And he might proved them right if he’s out burning bridges. I assumed they’d still have a shot at other invitationals down the road, keep their tour cards, and be able to play in open events. But maybe not with how that’s playing out. I’ll assume they’re fine long term. Again, hopefully they don’t need to get banned to be in good graces.

Nineth, I’m okay with a Matchroom dictatorship if they make millionaires of the players. But if their money is only “equal to WPA” then they don’t get a free pass for times they’re heavy handed. Which goes back to wondering why they wouldn’t just sanction up until they’re profitable enough to be independent. Because they made the first move in cutting off player options by leaving the fold prematurely.

They're already WAY past the WPA for recent payouts and number of events.

Jaden

 

[j2pac]

All this reminds me of the PGA golf tour vs. LIV golf, but on a much smaller scale. Usually in the business world competition is a good thing that means better deals for consumers. This is not the case in the sports world though.

Even in the lofty world of pro golf this feud has hurt both entities. TV ratings are down and sponsorship money is drying up, with contracts being canceled. The best players are still making big money but at what cost.

This feud/war between the MR and the WPA is likewise damaging professional pool as a sport. Once again the players and their advisors are shooting themselves in the foot. I’ve seen this movie before and it has never ended well for the players. My post is a cautionary tale to all of them. Be careful what you do now. It could all go away in a moment!

I remember well the Camel Pro Tour. They were ready to go all in with Pool and that meant big money for the players. The players sided with a crooked commissioner and Camel pulled up stakes and went home, leaving them high and dry.

A decade before that a promoter named Richie Florence signed up Caesars World casinos, Budweiser and ESPN for a series of big money pro tourneys. I was present at those meetings that looked so promising for our sport. Once again the players took some bad advice and refused to sign the TV releases that are standard for all pro athlete's. That decision brought everything to an end!

We are at the precipice again. Nothing that happens now will surprise me.

Well said.

 

[skogstokig]

Sixth, I’m kinda okay with taking him out of the Mosconi Cup. I hope he’s not still ghosting them. But the fans in the room were about to light him up. Enough that it could easily distract from the event in a negative way. And that’s on him.

he could fade that. if anything that stuff usually makes him play better, he thrives on that. he has always been very aware that pool is not a popularity contest. and if we're talking about threats or too nasty stuff, there is always security guards

 

[JAM]

I cannot write what my thoughts in words about Joshua Filler and the cryptic two-sentence message put out by Matchroom.

Suffice it to say, I hope Joshua Filler survives the emotional and mental damage that has already occurred thanks to the nonstop cyberbullying on social media. The same old refrain of "He did it to himself" and "He went back on his word" is a crock of sh*t, in my opinion. He has every right to pick and choose whatever he wants, to include standing by his sponsors and his federation. It's easy for people to sling mud at him and kick him when he's down; in fact, some seem to enjoy it.

He will be in Puerto Rico at the Predator event in a few days, and I may be the lone soldier standing, but I'm rooting for him, win or lose.

 

[JAM]

“The basis behind [the WNT contracts] is to start a professional tour, not to put restrictions on players.” ~~ Emily Frazer, February 2024

Exclusive interview in Feb. 24 Billiard Digest with Emily Frazer.

 

[garczar]

Exactly! Who are they to tell the players when and where they can play

Still under a contract the exact terms of which we will most likely never see. Just because they aren't getting a stipend/salary doesn't mean MR/WNT can't suspend/ban for contract violations. Contact is just a signed agreement between two parties, payment of any kind is not required for it be valid.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

All this reminds me of the PGA golf tour vs. LIV golf, but on a much smaller scale. Usually in the business world competition is a good thing that means better deals for consumers. This is not the case in the sports world though.

We are at the precipice again. Nothing that happens now will surprise me.

So what would be your advice (at this time) for the players on both sides of the fence Jay?

 

[skogstokig]

This is great news.

I can't stand him. Not because of how he plays, but because of his shitass attitude. Homeboy thought he was "king" and untouchable for years and his now learning where that lack of humility can get you.

Such an incredible player ruined by a terrible personality.

that's true of many greats in many sports, tyson, mcenroe, djokovic, maradona, etc. if you can't stand someone that doesn't mean he shouldn't play. everyone can't be humble, and some would probably be lesser players if they were

 

[garczar]

“The basis behind [the WNT contracts] is to start a professional tour, not to put restrictions on players.” ~~ Emily Frazer, February 2024

Exclusive interview in Feb. 24 Billiard Digest with Emily Frazer.

View attachment 788561

Filler's current situation is all his doing. People need to quit blaming MR/WNT and acting like he's some poor little victim here.

 

[Bella Don't Cry]

I cannot write what my thoughts in words about Joshua Filler and the cryptic two-sentence message put out by Matchroom.

Suffice it to say, I hope Joshua Filler survives the emotional and mental damage that has already occurred thanks to the nonstop cyberbullying on social media. The same old refrain of "He did it to himself" and "He went back on his word" is a crock of sh*t, in my opinion. He has every right to pick and choose whatever he wants, to include standing by his sponsors and his federation. It's easy for people to sling mud at him and kick him when he's down; in fact, some seem to enjoy it.

He will be in Puerto Rico at the Predator event in a few days, and I may be the lone soldier standing, but I'm rooting for him, win or lose.

Agree!

At no point in this young man's career has the sport of Pool Billiards ever looked out for his (or any other players) interests.

It takes a grown up adult to make tough decisions.

I'm certainly not going to beat someone (I don't know) with a stick!

I'm definitely not in a position to cast the first stone.

 

[garczar]

Agree!

At no point in this young man's career has the sport of Pool Billiards ever looked out for his (or any other players) interests.

It takes a grown up adult to make tough decisions.

I'm certainly not going to beat someone (I don't know) with a stick!

I'm definitely not in a position to cast the first stone.

What does the sport owe him or anyone else?? Look folks, he's an adult that signed a contract/agreement with MR/WNT. He's obviously gone afoul of it and is paying the price. He's not a victim here. HIS actions got him to where he's at. Integrity and one's word should still carry weight. Seems like everywhere you turn these days people want to whine and play the victim. I got two words for JF: GROW UP.

 

[Icon of Sin]

that's true of many greats in many sports, tyson, mcenroe, djokovic, maradona, etc. if you can't stand someone that doesn't mean he shouldn't play. everyone can't be humble, and some would probably be lesser players if they were

I didn't say he shouldn't play... I'm just personally happy that he can't.

 

[VarmintKong]

albin on world nineball tour
“..I dont want to play in a dictatorship.”

Link?

Found it:

Ouschan: “Don’t want to play in a dictatorship!”

Things are hotting up in the billiards scene! The conflict between the World Association (WPA) and the multi-million dollar organizer Matchroompool ...

www.krone.at

 

[The_JV]

What does the sport owe him or anyone else?? Look folks, he's an adult that signed a contract/agreement with MR/WNT. He's obviously gone afoul of it and is paying the price. He's not a victim here. HIS actions got him to where he's at. Integrity and one's word should still carry weight. Seems like everywhere you turn these days people want to whine and play the victim. I got two words for JF: GROW UP.

I'm riding the fence with this one.

I don't blame MR or Filler. MR has a plan in mind and attempted to include Josh. They don't owe Josh anything. Josh on the other hand has made decisions based on what he believes are in his best interest. He does not owe MR anything.

As far as whatever contract Josh signed with MR. Well normally a contract is a legally binding agreement. I have no idea of knowing what repercussions Josh can be facing. What I do know is he has not be banned from anything, and merely purposely excluded from what used to be invitational events MR holds.

I feel like I should be more wound up about this, but honestly don't believe it will effect anything in the long run.

 

[garczar]

I'm riding the fence with this one.

I don't blame MR or Filler. MR has a plan in mind and attempted to include Josh. They don't owe Josh anything. Josh on the other hand has made decisions based on what he believes are in his best interest. He does not owe MR anything.

As far as whatever contract Josh signed with MR. Well normally a contract is a legally binding agreement. I have no idea of knowing what repercussions Josh can be facing. What I do know is he has not be banned from anything, and merely purposely excluded from what used to be invitational events MR holds.

I feel like I should be more wound up about this, but honestly don't believe it will effect anything in the long run.

Yep. Its a bump in the road and i'm sure he'll be 'back in the fold' with the WNT soon enough. I just think that MR/WNT HQ is making a statement here, they would have most likely done the same thing regardless of the player. If it was someone further down the money/ranking list would we still be talking about it? Probably not.