Josh has a massive ego... Maybe he was thinking that due to his talent, Matchroom would bend to him...
Joshua Filler withdrawn from the Mosconi Cup!
- Thread starter vjmehra
- Start date
He took a shot and dogged it. This is entirely possible. You know on that long flight to NZ he had to be thinking something along these lines. This is just my $.02 here but i think he may have not really intended to play and just watch the 'ol lady. When he got there and saw the field he said WTF and went for it. Well, he got his title and a suspension.
Can't see it without registering and translating. Wanna give us the cliff notes version? Without reading a word i'll say this: how can it be a dictatorship when you sign a contract to join a tour/league/association? Don't like the rules don't fkng play. Albin is free to make his choices as is Matchroom/WNT.Link?
Found it:
Ouschan: “Don’t want to play in a dictatorship!”
Things are hotting up in the billiards scene! The conflict between the World Association (WPA) and the multi-million dollar organizer Matchroompool ...www.krone.at
"You have to be grateful to them and keep your mouth shut. I can't do that," says the man from Maria Saale, who has won around 70 percent of his prize money at Matchroom events. "It's a shame. But I don't want to play in a dictatorship," emphasizes Albin. The 34-year-old does not believe that Europe will win. "Europe's A team won't be playing, it will be the B team!"
The text also mentilns a verbally promised wild card for the MC.
Quite a strange statement by Albin. It contradicts a lot of what has been said from others involved in this whole mess.
Filler so far has not been banned from any event, it should be restated. He has only been disinvited from an "invitational" event for refusal to participate in an event(s) put on by the company that controls the invitational.
I am not mad at Filler. He has the right to do as he pleases. MR has the right to run things its own way, too.
The invitational is a reward for participating in big MR events. If Filler chooses to bypass some big MR events, MR is well within its rights to remove him from an invitational.
Panazzo on Doggin It seemed to suggest Filler was asked for certain commitments on upcoming tournaments and he declined.
It would not do well for MR to let players play in a few sanctioned events, perhaps earn enough points to quality for Reyes or Mosconi, and then sit out the other big MR events for the rest of the year.
Does this mean MR is forcing players to choose? Putting them in the position to break WPA rules and face a ban? Yes.
For pool fans, it's not great. But it's a legitimate - if unwelcome to some - business decision on the part of MR.
I am not mad at Filler. He has the right to do as he pleases. MR has the right to run things its own way, too.
The invitational is a reward for participating in big MR events. If Filler chooses to bypass some big MR events, MR is well within its rights to remove him from an invitational.
Panazzo on Doggin It seemed to suggest Filler was asked for certain commitments on upcoming tournaments and he declined.
It would not do well for MR to let players play in a few sanctioned events, perhaps earn enough points to quality for Reyes or Mosconi, and then sit out the other big MR events for the rest of the year.
Does this mean MR is forcing players to choose? Putting them in the position to break WPA rules and face a ban? Yes.
For pool fans, it's not great. But it's a legitimate - if unwelcome to some - business decision on the part of MR.
There are conflicting reports on whether Albin called them a dictatorship. He is a straight shooter, no question. But he's usually very careful in what he says.
What I don't want to see if Filler banned from open WNT events.
Would not be surprised if he has to go thru qualifiers, however. Or is no longer guaranteed a slot as one of the 128 on the tour.
Speaking of which, will he and his wife actually leave the tour?
As for the MR statement, I think Frazer and Co. can't really say much without putting Filler in a bad light. Sensible to leave things as they are unless Filler chooses to comment. So far he's been keeping his powder dry, too.
Would not be surprised if he has to go thru qualifiers, however. Or is no longer guaranteed a slot as one of the 128 on the tour.
Speaking of which, will he and his wife actually leave the tour?
As for the MR statement, I think Frazer and Co. can't really say much without putting Filler in a bad light. Sensible to leave things as they are unless Filler chooses to comment. So far he's been keeping his powder dry, too.
His managment definitley is...Albin himself not so much
Ouschan: “Don’t want to play in a dictatorship!”
Things are hotting up in the billiards scene! The conflict between the World Association (WPA) and the multi-million dollar organizer Matchroompool ...
www.krone.at
Here is the Albin article, in English. Notice at the bottom it says "This article has been automatically translated,
read the original article here."
So a lot of the wording could be way off. Plus, the english version does make it seem like a lot was missing, and the author probably wrote it leaving some context out.
Hard for me to find any fault in the path Barry Hearn laid out two years ago when MR and the WPA began to split. From Billiards Digest:
“We all need to pull in the same direction. That means the sport, the broadcasters, the sponsors, management and sanctioning bodies," Hearn in an interview on the “Doggin’ It” podcast. "I tried to tell the WPA that Matchroom will not continue to invest millions of dollars without having some skin in the game. We said we will continue to build this sport globally, but it’s important to us that the WPA acknowledge the Matchroom Nineball rankings as the official rankings for 9-ball.”
Hearn went on to insist that the newly developed ranking system is set up to help grow the competitive side of the sport at all levels.
“Part of our plan is to bring other events into the tour to expand it,” he said. “Making the smaller tournaments relevant and important will ensure that players participate in those events as well. Those points and that ranking earn you a spot in the top events. Essentially, you must participate in all the events.”
In defending his desire for “skin in the game,” Hearn pointed to the questions he faces in trying to market his events.
“When we go to broadcasting and sponsor partners,” he insisted, “the first thing they ask is who controls the product. Darts is one of the great success stories. We own darts. Why is snooker successful? We own it. Players and governing bodies have proven that they’re not good enough at promoting the sport. They just rubber stamp events and charge a sanctioning fee.”
Sanctioning is required by the WPA for any event that includes players from other intercontinental memberships. National federation members of the WPA control the selection of players from their country for events, although promoters traditionally also receive an allotment of “wild card” entries.
Will Matchroom’s unsanctioned events create problems for players?
“The duty of federations is to the players,” Hearn pointed out. “To give them opportunities.
“The federations have to understand that this is a business and that they don’t own anything.
“We’ve shown over 40 years at Matchroom that when we make progress with a sport, we share that with the players. But behind the scenes we also create a sustainable business that is profitable and allows us to invest in other sports.”
“We’re making the investment on our own,” Hearn reiterated. “We have the players’ backing, which is fundamental. If you’re not a realist, you’re history. It sounds a bit brutal, but I’m 74 and I don’t have time to wait for things to happen. I want to see pool hit it big before I go to the big pool hall in the sky.
“I can do that with the team I’ve got, and I’m not going to have administrators stand in the way of the way forward. We’ve proved our commitment over 30 years. But I want ownership now. We have a vision. We’re going to outgrow the world the WPA operates in. We need to do that to create a mega sport. Matchroom will invest whatever it takes to make this game huge.”
“We all need to pull in the same direction. That means the sport, the broadcasters, the sponsors, management and sanctioning bodies," Hearn in an interview on the “Doggin’ It” podcast. "I tried to tell the WPA that Matchroom will not continue to invest millions of dollars without having some skin in the game. We said we will continue to build this sport globally, but it’s important to us that the WPA acknowledge the Matchroom Nineball rankings as the official rankings for 9-ball.”
Hearn went on to insist that the newly developed ranking system is set up to help grow the competitive side of the sport at all levels.
“Part of our plan is to bring other events into the tour to expand it,” he said. “Making the smaller tournaments relevant and important will ensure that players participate in those events as well. Those points and that ranking earn you a spot in the top events. Essentially, you must participate in all the events.”
In defending his desire for “skin in the game,” Hearn pointed to the questions he faces in trying to market his events.
“When we go to broadcasting and sponsor partners,” he insisted, “the first thing they ask is who controls the product. Darts is one of the great success stories. We own darts. Why is snooker successful? We own it. Players and governing bodies have proven that they’re not good enough at promoting the sport. They just rubber stamp events and charge a sanctioning fee.”
Sanctioning is required by the WPA for any event that includes players from other intercontinental memberships. National federation members of the WPA control the selection of players from their country for events, although promoters traditionally also receive an allotment of “wild card” entries.
Will Matchroom’s unsanctioned events create problems for players?
“The duty of federations is to the players,” Hearn pointed out. “To give them opportunities.
“The federations have to understand that this is a business and that they don’t own anything.
“We’ve shown over 40 years at Matchroom that when we make progress with a sport, we share that with the players. But behind the scenes we also create a sustainable business that is profitable and allows us to invest in other sports.”
“We’re making the investment on our own,” Hearn reiterated. “We have the players’ backing, which is fundamental. If you’re not a realist, you’re history. It sounds a bit brutal, but I’m 74 and I don’t have time to wait for things to happen. I want to see pool hit it big before I go to the big pool hall in the sky.
“I can do that with the team I’ve got, and I’m not going to have administrators stand in the way of the way forward. We’ve proved our commitment over 30 years. But I want ownership now. We have a vision. We’re going to outgrow the world the WPA operates in. We need to do that to create a mega sport. Matchroom will invest whatever it takes to make this game huge.”
Yeah, the 9 ball points was the major sticking point IMO, and what it entails, as Barry's interview quotes above spell out.
Fast forward 2 years, and the big WPA events are now all the Heyball crap. WPA might end up mixing those points with pocket billiards points. They already include 10 ball, 8 ball, and straight pool in their pocket billiard points. None of that aligns with Barry growing Nineball Pool.
Fast forward 2 years, and the big WPA events are now all the Heyball crap. WPA might end up mixing those points with pocket billiards points. They already include 10 ball, 8 ball, and straight pool in their pocket billiard points. None of that aligns with Barry growing Nineball Pool.
from Matchroom point of view, I believe they have made the tough decision in withdrawing Filler from Mosconi Cup, especially after the underwhelming EU performance in the Reyes Cup... but they believe that would pay off in the long term
Let me share some info I know... In Vietnam ppl are crazy about Filler, he was the No1 pool idol until Fedor went to play in Peri Open and Hanoi Open 2023, and with Filler missing, Fedor stole that No1 spot. KillerFillers had a trip to Ho Chi Minh city in Jul 2024 and he said he loved the country and can't wait to play at the Hanoi Open. Fans went crazily excited about the news.... Then at EU Open he posted a supporting message for Vietnamese players and Asian players that he would not play WPA events until bans are lifted... Fans are even more excited to see their idol supporting fellow pros. and on a side note, he did not post the proforma message that MR sent players, he wrote his own. FYI, not all players were asked by MR to post the statement, just the highly influential ones, and I do not think they were "pressured" by Matchroom.
When he posted the message that he was pressured to post such statement, he still said he would play Hanoi Open where players will be banned from WPA. I dont know if he still intended to play Hanoi Open, but the fans who got crazy about him backlashed... I heard that he received threatening messages, and he was scared to go to Hanoi, which was understandable at the time especially for a person who has not been there... To be honest Vietnam is the safest place to go and ppl will fast forget the hatred if Filler came, he would be greeted like an idol.
Now we all know that Reyes Cup was originally planned for 17-20 Oct but had to move up 15-18 Oct, right after Hanoi Open so there would not be enough time for MR to do promo and PR in the Philippines... I heard that they planned some promo preparation in Hanoi for the Reyes Cup and contacted Filler to come but he was scared, or indifferent, refused to go to Hanoi and said he would go to Manila directly... and some ghosting too, forced MR to withdraw him from Reyes Cup.
Molina Mike tried to get an answer from Emily Frazer why they dropped Filler for Reyes Cup but she just answered it would be unfair for Filler if she speaks about it so I think it was heavy on Filler side.
After Reyes Cup I think things happened just like Mike Panozzo said on Doggin It podcast, MR surely reached out to Filler and considering how they learned about Reyes Cup without Filler, they would make efforts to keep him in Mosconi Cup... I believe there were conditions discussed but were fruitless, so the withdrawal is inevitable.
Now we are approaching end of 2024 and MR will send out the WNT agreement for next year... I think if Filler will not sign the agreement, he will still be welcomed to play Open events (2 per year through qualifications) but not in Invitational events, making him more like Wojciech Szewczyk
Let me share some info I know... In Vietnam ppl are crazy about Filler, he was the No1 pool idol until Fedor went to play in Peri Open and Hanoi Open 2023, and with Filler missing, Fedor stole that No1 spot. KillerFillers had a trip to Ho Chi Minh city in Jul 2024 and he said he loved the country and can't wait to play at the Hanoi Open. Fans went crazily excited about the news.... Then at EU Open he posted a supporting message for Vietnamese players and Asian players that he would not play WPA events until bans are lifted... Fans are even more excited to see their idol supporting fellow pros. and on a side note, he did not post the proforma message that MR sent players, he wrote his own. FYI, not all players were asked by MR to post the statement, just the highly influential ones, and I do not think they were "pressured" by Matchroom.
When he posted the message that he was pressured to post such statement, he still said he would play Hanoi Open where players will be banned from WPA. I dont know if he still intended to play Hanoi Open, but the fans who got crazy about him backlashed... I heard that he received threatening messages, and he was scared to go to Hanoi, which was understandable at the time especially for a person who has not been there... To be honest Vietnam is the safest place to go and ppl will fast forget the hatred if Filler came, he would be greeted like an idol.
Now we all know that Reyes Cup was originally planned for 17-20 Oct but had to move up 15-18 Oct, right after Hanoi Open so there would not be enough time for MR to do promo and PR in the Philippines... I heard that they planned some promo preparation in Hanoi for the Reyes Cup and contacted Filler to come but he was scared, or indifferent, refused to go to Hanoi and said he would go to Manila directly... and some ghosting too, forced MR to withdraw him from Reyes Cup.
Molina Mike tried to get an answer from Emily Frazer why they dropped Filler for Reyes Cup but she just answered it would be unfair for Filler if she speaks about it so I think it was heavy on Filler side.
After Reyes Cup I think things happened just like Mike Panozzo said on Doggin It podcast, MR surely reached out to Filler and considering how they learned about Reyes Cup without Filler, they would make efforts to keep him in Mosconi Cup... I believe there were conditions discussed but were fruitless, so the withdrawal is inevitable.
Now we are approaching end of 2024 and MR will send out the WNT agreement for next year... I think if Filler will not sign the agreement, he will still be welcomed to play Open events (2 per year through qualifications) but not in Invitational events, making him more like Wojciech Szewczyk
Print Version in German was the same. Although I have to admit, that this newspaper is not known for journalism of the highest standards.Ouschan: “Don’t want to play in a dictatorship!”
Things are hotting up in the billiards scene! The conflict between the World Association (WPA) and the multi-million dollar organizer Matchroompool ...
Here is the Albin article, in English. Notice at the bottom it says "This article has been automatically translated,
read the original article here."
So a lot of the wording could be way off. Plus, the english version does make it seem like a lot was missing, and the author probably wrote it leaving some context out.
You suggest, ctran, that Filler was pressured to sign the players statement and that WNT was behind it. But that is not what Filler wrote in his original post. He implied it was a decision by top players.
I have not seen direct evidence MR was behind it, but it would not surprise me. Hard for me to figure out which player(s) would have been the leader behind the statement. Jayson Shaw would be my guess. He has made himself financially independent and does not like the WPA. Did he do at MR's urging. Maybe so.
If so, I could see how this has sparked rumors about a split between Shaw and Filler.
Did Filler feel pressure from the other players to sign? Most definitely. That's how these things tend to work.
In any case, if Filler did ghost WNT in any way, that would obviously be a black mark against him. Fine for him to go his own way and disagree with WNT, but he should be mature enough to engage with Frazer and Co. if they reach out to him.
I have not seen direct evidence MR was behind it, but it would not surprise me. Hard for me to figure out which player(s) would have been the leader behind the statement. Jayson Shaw would be my guess. He has made himself financially independent and does not like the WPA. Did he do at MR's urging. Maybe so.
If so, I could see how this has sparked rumors about a split between Shaw and Filler.
Did Filler feel pressure from the other players to sign? Most definitely. That's how these things tend to work.
In any case, if Filler did ghost WNT in any way, that would obviously be a black mark against him. Fine for him to go his own way and disagree with WNT, but he should be mature enough to engage with Frazer and Co. if they reach out to him.
Kinda looks like 'The Enquirer'. Probably not staffed with anyone with actual journalism degrees.
albin has clarified he did not say that, the dictatorship part. i believe him, he's an honest dude. but the part with the disbelief in team europe's chances without him and calling it a B team.. if that's fairly quoted it's pretty strong from someone who's played sub-par for over a year..
I think he's been having issue with that hair-weave he's facing.
Seriously, this dude is about bald and is rocking the comb-over of comb-overs.
This is how I see it too. From MR's point of view, I'm guessing they don't feel obligated to hand $15K or $30K (or whatever the amount is now) to a guy that hasn't participated fully in their branding/promotional efforts. The Reyes/Mosconi are there to reward players for playing well and helping MR grow its "nineball" brand. I don't blame them, or feel too bad for Josh to be honest that he didn't get a handout at the end of the season when he wasn't playing in all the events, or at least the high profile ones. As USA fans are painfully aware, you get paid out a decent chuck of change as far as pool events go even if you shoot balls into the rails for a few days at the Mosconi.
Of course I want to see the best players duke it out (not that's what Mosconi is since there are no Asians); but, money talks, BS walks.
I read many posts about players were pressured to post the message at EU Open, I believe it was not the case, MR may gather top players and asked... there was a format for the message which Filler did not use and write his own words which was even nicer
If there were a split between Shaw and Filler, I would doubt that but that would explain some more.
As for Albin Ouschan interview in the paper, I strongly believe his words were distorted, he would not said such things... especially the part "verbal promise of a wild card", "Europe A team and B team" etc... I met Albin and supported him in an exhibition session with young players in Hanoi in Jun '24 and he shared his thought on WNT v WPA, but he also said he would have to sacrifice A LOT if he abandon WPA