Jump Cue Discussion
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
That's a very good question. One I'm not really sure there is a right answer to.
I use a Moori H on my Air Hog. When I change the tip on my playing cue I put that tip onto my jump cue. By this point it has about 2 layers left when sanded flat, and is harder than when new. The shape starts out at a dime, since that's what I play with, but I don't shape it once on my jump cue. So over time it flattens out quite a bit.
Balance is a significant factor. As is end mass. Remember, a jump shot is essentially the ultimate squirt shot. Thus a cue that squirts the most is likely to jump better. This is why jump/break cues are inherently a bad idea. (Unless for some reason you want high cueball squirt on your break cue, which would be odd indeed).
KMRUNOUT
RBC
Deceased
Joey
I don't think the newer aramith bar table balls are really that much heavier. They are made different so the magnet will pull them over for the ball return, but that comes from having a magnetic powder or something in the mix. I think they did this so the balls would be closer to the normal weight.
Now then, when you jump, they certainly feel heavy. But, I think that comes more from the fact that the slate underneath them is thin and weak as compared to either normal tables or the Diamond bar tables.
As for the jump cues, I use a prototype I've been working on for quite some time. It's a 3 piece, with the normal shaft length, a 12" handle and a 6" extension. Like most good jump cues, it gets the ball up in the air pretty easy, but what I've been working on is trying to get it to not go too high. I don't want the ball to bounce too much when it lands. The whole thing together weighs in at about 10 ounces, but is lighter of course without the extension.
I don't know if that helps, but it's my thoughts anyway.
Royce
I don't think the newer aramith bar table balls are really that much heavier. They are made different so the magnet will pull them over for the ball return, but that comes from having a magnetic powder or something in the mix. I think they did this so the balls would be closer to the normal weight.
Now then, when you jump, they certainly feel heavy. But, I think that comes more from the fact that the slate underneath them is thin and weak as compared to either normal tables or the Diamond bar tables.
As for the jump cues, I use a prototype I've been working on for quite some time. It's a 3 piece, with the normal shaft length, a 12" handle and a 6" extension. Like most good jump cues, it gets the ball up in the air pretty easy, but what I've been working on is trying to get it to not go too high. I don't want the ball to bounce too much when it lands. The whole thing together weighs in at about 10 ounces, but is lighter of course without the extension.
I don't know if that helps, but it's my thoughts anyway.
Royce
Joey,
I think it is worth noting that "Valley" cue ball no longer means much. There are many cue balls that are not "standard" that are used on a Valley table. Modern Valleys from like the late 80's or 90's have a magnetic cue ball return system. Really old ones don't. Here are the cueballs in use on Valley tables and their approximate weights:
Oversized ball: 7.2oz. The only one that is not the same size as the other balls.
"heavy" ball (mud ball, red *dot* dynamo ball): 6.7oz.
Slug ball (the one that has a magnetic slug in the middle...you can tell from the big off color circle at two ends): usually weighs the same as the other balls. Doesn't roll quite right, and spin is a mystery depending on whether you hit around or along the axis of the slug
Green logo aramith or green cat logo: weighs the same as the other balls. Is perimeter weighted so it doesn't play quite right. Also has a terrible quality surface that gets dirty and pits and dings easily.
Purlple logo aramith or purple cat logo: the newest ball. This one is the same weight as the other balls, and plays much closer to a regulation cue ball.
So...which ball do you mean? The oversized or the mud ball? These are really the only heavy cue balls you find on a valley table. They are slowly being phased out as the green logo (and now the purple logo) replaces the older style balls.
I have a Jacoby jump cue with the extension. I find it to be the best jump cue I've ever used by quite some margin, and I've tried a LOT. However, I never play on tables with a heavy ball. I have single handedly changed my whole APA division lol...everyone now understands the value of using a real cue ball, and the heavy balls...I just don't encounter them anymore. The national championships use the more modern correctly weighted ball. SO...where are you playing that this is important? Just curious.
KMRUNOUT
I think it is worth noting that "Valley" cue ball no longer means much. There are many cue balls that are not "standard" that are used on a Valley table. Modern Valleys from like the late 80's or 90's have a magnetic cue ball return system. Really old ones don't. Here are the cueballs in use on Valley tables and their approximate weights:
Oversized ball: 7.2oz. The only one that is not the same size as the other balls.
"heavy" ball (mud ball, red *dot* dynamo ball): 6.7oz.
Slug ball (the one that has a magnetic slug in the middle...you can tell from the big off color circle at two ends): usually weighs the same as the other balls. Doesn't roll quite right, and spin is a mystery depending on whether you hit around or along the axis of the slug
Green logo aramith or green cat logo: weighs the same as the other balls. Is perimeter weighted so it doesn't play quite right. Also has a terrible quality surface that gets dirty and pits and dings easily.
Purlple logo aramith or purple cat logo: the newest ball. This one is the same weight as the other balls, and plays much closer to a regulation cue ball.
So...which ball do you mean? The oversized or the mud ball? These are really the only heavy cue balls you find on a valley table. They are slowly being phased out as the green logo (and now the purple logo) replaces the older style balls.
I have a Jacoby jump cue with the extension. I find it to be the best jump cue I've ever used by quite some margin, and I've tried a LOT. However, I never play on tables with a heavy ball. I have single handedly changed my whole APA division lol...everyone now understands the value of using a real cue ball, and the heavy balls...I just don't encounter them anymore. The national championships use the more modern correctly weighted ball. SO...where are you playing that this is important? Just curious.
KMRUNOUT
Back in either 1991 to maybe it was the year of 2000, I talked with Ned Morris and he made me about 10 jump cues where the shaft was real thick and the butt can break down into two pieces. I have used the same jump cue to this date. Totally awesome, easy to put English on the cue in case you have to jump with English and spin off a rail, holds straight line really easy. I have kept one. At the 2000 wpba us open in myrtle beach, Loree Jon Jones hit the most amazing long jump shot with extreme draw (about 5 feet and drew for perfect shape on the six which was sitting on the rail at the foot spot. Never did get that particular jump cue back, lol. Ask Ned about that shot sometime, he looked like a proud papa who just had triplets. Best live shot I ever saw in a high stress situation, bare none.
Check with Ned, maybe he would make you one with the thick shaft. I have one left, $ 200.00 shipped. The ones I saw Ned produce after this came with thinner shafts to fit in most cases. If your current shaft can go in your case, thread side first, this will fit, if not, don't think so.
Great cue for dart and underarm jump shots.
Check with Ned, maybe he would make you one with the thick shaft. I have one left, $ 200.00 shipped. The ones I saw Ned produce after this came with thinner shafts to fit in most cases. If your current shaft can go in your case, thread side first, this will fit, if not, don't think so.
Great cue for dart and underarm jump shots.
Jump cues are for pussies.
I can jump full table with a Meucci. How strong is that!
Just kidding. I wasn't having much luck with jumping. Usually with a 3 piece break cue.
They did the trick in a pinch and are better than not having one at all.
I could clear a ball and hit mine usually but nothing amazing.
I bought a Poison Black Belt. About the cheapest jumper short of a Lucasi. The older Lukes, not the new ones.
Pretty effortless most of the time. I did try a players Air Hog out and they perform decent as well.
The Poison was light and worked good. I put some extra weight in it and it doesn't perform as it did. I will be taking the extra weight out of it and trying again.
Maybe light or heavy work for different folks but I found that heavy doesn't seem to work for me.
I don't have long fingers (see little girly hands, Hahaha) so some shots are hard for me to bridge over. I try and hold my left arm in the air, steady with the dart method.
I don't seem to be able to do the over hand method well, if that is what you call it. I think that a light jumper is maybe a bit better for the fast dart method. And that is because of the short fingers. I seem to be able to generate a bit more speed.
I started concentrating more on rails and kicks for some time. I would prefer to get myself out of a safety that way over jumping, so my jump cue sits lonely most nights. I will only bring it out if I figure that is the last option.
I can jump full table with a Meucci. How strong is that!
Just kidding. I wasn't having much luck with jumping. Usually with a 3 piece break cue.
They did the trick in a pinch and are better than not having one at all.
I could clear a ball and hit mine usually but nothing amazing.
I bought a Poison Black Belt. About the cheapest jumper short of a Lucasi. The older Lukes, not the new ones.
Pretty effortless most of the time. I did try a players Air Hog out and they perform decent as well.
The Poison was light and worked good. I put some extra weight in it and it doesn't perform as it did. I will be taking the extra weight out of it and trying again.
Maybe light or heavy work for different folks but I found that heavy doesn't seem to work for me.
I don't have long fingers (see little girly hands, Hahaha) so some shots are hard for me to bridge over. I try and hold my left arm in the air, steady with the dart method.
I don't seem to be able to do the over hand method well, if that is what you call it. I think that a light jumper is maybe a bit better for the fast dart method. And that is because of the short fingers. I seem to be able to generate a bit more speed.
I started concentrating more on rails and kicks for some time. I would prefer to get myself out of a safety that way over jumping, so my jump cue sits lonely most nights. I will only bring it out if I figure that is the last option.
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i am old school, get rid of jump shots and make guys learn the kicking systems,then you dont have to have a jump cue....
....ok bad post i know,and every tables rails play different so maybe we should allow jumpers. I guess i dont jump well,so thats my stance...lol
....ok bad post i know,and every tables rails play different so maybe we should allow jumpers. I guess i dont jump well,so thats my stance...lol
Thanks Royce!
I didn't know about the thinner slate on the Valley Bar box but that makes sense to me. I do know I have a heck of more difficult time jumping on these old Valley Bar Tables.
Glad to hear that OB cues is working on a prototype jump cue. Maybe you should have one jump cue for the Valley bar tables and another for the Diamond Tables. Let me know if you get closer to a finished OB Jump cue.
Thanks,
JoeyA
P.S. Noticed there are a lot more pro players playing with OB cues this year! Congratulations!
Jumping should be banned.
Have played around a bunch with jumpers and there is a pretty good model I use for testing a jump cue to see if it's worth buying and most of them are not.... I keep forgetting to call you back on the tips but will try and follow up this weekend or early next week... I thought we talked about jumpers at the Open but that's been too far back for me to even try and remember.....
Chris
I agree. I have had several jump cues and tried several others and Alex's jump cue is the best I have used with all cue balls.
RBC
Deceased
Thanks Joey!
Have you seen the pics of Allison on our facebook page? And Corey won the 1 pocket match against Shane last night on TAR. They both had their ups and downs, but Corey came out on top.
As for the jump cue, I think We've finally settled on the final version. Both Alex and Corey have been using it for a while and really like it. We just might have it ready by the SBE this year. We've been so busy with the new cues. It's kept us behind for months now, but we are catching up.
Thanks again Joey!
Royce
I have seen MANY professional players using a very flat tip on their playing cue, so I wouldn't be surprised to see top level players using a flat tip on their jump cue. It wouldn't make it necessarily right, it just is the way some choose. I'm curious as to what benefit one might expect from a flat tip versus say, a nickel-shaped curvature. I've read where some recommend a quarter shaped surface for a jump tip.
JoeyA
No Royce, I haven't seen the pics of Allison. Will visit shortly.
Corey, Alex and Allison are great representatives for OB cues, although I think Alex should be doing stand-up comedy because he is a super funny guy.
I will be using Corey's "SECRET" 8 Ball Break in the final tournament of the Louisiana Amateur Tour tournament. :wink: (He taught that to me when he won the 4 Bears Casino Event last year in North Dakota) and beat me 7-2.
JoeyA
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No Royce, I haven't seen the pics of Allison. Will visit shortly.
Corey, Alex and Allison are great representatives for OB cues, although I think Alex should be doing stand-up comedy because he is a super funny guy.
I will be using Corey's "SECRET" 8 Ball Break in the final tournament of the Louisiana Amateur Tour tournament. :wink: (He taught that to me when he won the 4 Bears Casino Event last year in North Dakota) and beat me 7-2.
JoeyA
Secret 8-Ball break? Care to share with us? Always looking for something new to try!
As for jump cues, I love my Lomax. It is phenomenal. I also have an Alex Brick dymondwood break cue. It has the same pin and joint diameter as the lomax jumper and I've toyed around with the Brick shaft on the Lomax jump butt. It's a pretty darn good combo and I find that the heavier weight of the dymondwood shaft helps to smooth out my stroke a bit. I find that if I need to get the ball up quick, the Lomax shaft works better. If I need to hit a longer jump shot, keeping the cue ball low, the Brick shaft works better... Not that the Lomax can't do this, it just takes less effort with the Brick shaft.
All of these experiences have been with the measle cue ball. I don't have any experience with the specific ball you mention, but I know that the measle plays on the heavier side, so I hope that the info helps a bit.
Cheers,
Mike
