Karl Boyes comments on racking

Karl hates America and enjoys giving hard ribings when at all possible. Personally he shouldn't be able to commentate on any matches involving America or Americans. He's a high and mighty knob that is anti-amercian and he can piss right the **** off for all I care.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Do you think it is cheating to rack your own gaps in the U.S. open like Karl was talking about?
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Sure it is, Satori.

I may have I missed the point here.

The OP spoke to simply reading the rack and not racking your own and THEN
reading the layout.

If Karl was talking about the latter, then my reply was insufficient.

Am I wrong here?
 
RunoutJJ said:
Karl hates America and enjoys giving hard ribings when at all possible. Personally he shouldn't be able to commentate on any matches involving America or Americans. He's a high and mighty knob that is anti-amercian and he can piss right the **** off for all I care.
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Bullocks.

His view on the racking is shared by many other players. Feijen and Ekonomopoulos had serious complaints about SVB's racking in last year's US Open, if I'm not mistaken. Does that makes them anti-Americans too?
 
Reading the Rack

It is ok to "read the rack" when your opponent is racking (as long as you don't touch the rack).

When you are racking for yourself you should not be allowed to "noodle" (slightly adjusting a ball to create a gap) any ball after the rack is lifted off the table. You can see many pro players adjust the head ball (creating a gap) to help make the wing ball on the break. This to me is cheating and should never be allowed.

When using a magic rack your opponent should always rack since this will prevent any gaps being created to help make the wing ball.

One other form of cheating when racking your own racks is tilting the rack to your advantage. I recently watched an eight ball match finals when one of the players was tilting the rack to make the same ball in the corner pocket. His opponent wasn't paying attention and the ref didn't notice it until it was brought to the ref's attention. The ref then made the player straighten out the rack.

It makes me sick to see some of the best players in the world cheat by noodling the rack or tilting the rack. When they get caught they should lose that game and when they get caught again they should lose the match.
 
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I think most fiddle with the one to get it froze, not to get a gap in the one to either of the two balls behind the one.
 
Pool racks should be like bowling. Dropping down from above and set automatically like pins. No adjustment allowed. When the balls go in the pocket they automatically run back up to the top.

(No I'm not serious)
(...or am I?) :grin:
 
boogeyman said:
Sure it is, Satori.

I may have I missed the point here.

The OP spoke to simply reading the rack and not racking your own and THEN
reading the layout.

If Karl was talking about the latter, then my reply was insufficient.

Am I wrong here?
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Yes, you and the OP are in the wrong. Karl was referring to intentionally causing gaps when you rack yourself, not simply reading the rack. See also PoolBum's post above.
 
"I think it's cheating." (Karl Boyes)

I think that is a nasty comment. Sorry Karl, but you should apologize for that remark. You are more of a professional than that.

Rack reading is not cheating, even more so when someone else is doing the racking.

JoeyA
 
I suggest people actually watch the video in the OP and listen to what Karl actually said before calling into question his professionalism.
 
I just might bookmark this thread to bring up next time some one on here uses the lame excuse of "how dare you even disagree with what any pro says" :grin:
 
I agree with all of your points below except that the magic rack prevents any gaps from being created. If you have used the magic rack enough, you will know that gaps will sometimes appear, ironically when your opponent is racking.

JoeyA

TWOFORPOOL said:
It is ok to "read the rack" when your opponent is racking (as long as you don't touch the rack).

When you are racking for yourself you should not be allowed to "noodle" (slightly adjusting a ball to create a gap) any ball after the rack is lifted off the table. You can see many pro players adjust the head ball (creating a gap) to help make the wing ball on the break. This to me is cheating and should never be allowed.

When using a magic rack your opponent should always rack since this will prevent any gaps being created to help make the wing ball.

One other form of cheating when racking your own racks is tilting the rack to your advantage. I recently watched an eight ball match finals when one of the players was tilting the rack to make the same ball in the corner pocket. His opponent wasn't paying attention and the ref didn't notice it until it was brought to the ref's attention. The ref then made the player straighten out the rack.

It makes me sick to see some of the best players in the world cheat by noodling the rack or tilting the rack. When they get caught they should lose that game and when they get caught again they should lose the match.
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JoeyA said:
"I think it's cheating." (Karl Boyes)

I think that is a nasty comment. Sorry Karl, but you should apologize for that remark. You are more of a professional than that.

Rack reading is not cheating, even more so when someone else is doing the racking.

JoeyA
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Again, I could be wrong but I don't think Boyes was saying that reading the rack is cheating, I think he was saying that racking the balls in such a way as to intentionally leave gaps between the balls is cheating.
 
snucar said:
Bullocks.

His view on the racking is shared by many other players. Feijen and Ekonomopoulos had serious complaints about SVB's racking in last year's US Open, if I'm not mistaken. Does that makes them anti-Americans too?
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And Alex in the year before. He pointed out specifically exactly what SVB was doing to wire the wing ball and the ref (I believe it might have been Jay) eventually told Alex tough luck and simply allowed SVB to do it. It was ridiculous, I think SVB ran something like a 7 pack to start that final. When Alex finally got to the table he purposely did the exact same rack and ran a 5 pack back or so then jawed the wing ball on a break and lost the set.

It was gross pool, lame as hell.
 
Use the magic rack. The best player wins and you don't have the nonsense like what happened between Dechaine and Shaw.
 
Celtic said:
And Alex in the year before. He pointed out specifically exactly what SVB was doing to wire the wing ball and the ref (I believe it might have been Jay) eventually told Alex tough luck and simply allowed SVB to do it. It was ridiculous, I think SVB ran something like a 7 pack to start that final. When Alex finally got to the table he purposely did the exact same rack and ran a 5 pack back or so then jawed the wing ball on a break and lost the set.

It was gross pool, lame as hell.
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Alex hasn't been in a US Open 9-Ball final since he won in 2005.

Are you talking about the hot-seat match with SVB in 2012? The largest package in that match was a 3-pack by Shane in Games 3-5. Alex had one B&R game. Shane won 11-5. Alex then lost the semifinal to Orcollo, who lost the final to Shane.

Are you thinking of some other event entirely?
 
Independent Rackers. Problem solved. Reading how a frozen rack will react and what key balls. Will go where then executing it is a skill. I don't think he was getting at this being cheating. What is cheating in my opinion is purposely leaving gaps to give yourself an advantage on the break. No matter which way I look at it I still see it as cheating and unsportsmanlike.

Why is it so difficult in pool to find neutral rackers?
 
I didn't hear his comment. But he always seems like a whiny b****!
Earl would straighten his ass out!
 
Karl did mention that he once requested Shane to show him the racking secrets and Shane responded "sure, for 10 thousand dollars".
Karl said he declined the deal.

So whatever his opinion of reading racks, he was at one point all for it if Shane gave him lessons.
 
Intentionally tilting, moving up or down from the spot, or creating gaps in the rack for your benefit or to your opponents disadvantage is cheating. As much as I hate it, I have to agree with Boyes
on this one. Warnings should be issued at first offense, and unless heeded should lead to dq, if a pattern of this behavior is discovered.

Referee should always rack, if that is at all possible.
 
AtLarge said:
Are you talking about the hot-seat match with SVB in 2012? The largest package in that match was a 3-pack by Shane in Games 3-5. Alex had one B&R game. Shane won 11-5. Alex then lost the semifinal to Orcollo, who lost the final to Shane.
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Yeah that sounds like it might be the match but if it is then there were a lot more runs than that. I cannot find it on Youtube so there is no going back to see it. There is potentially a small chance it is a different event but I went back through Alex's finishes the last few years and cannot see another event that stands out as being it. I would "very" much like to find it again, it is very apt in this exact discussion.

Edit: Yeah, it was the US Open A final in 2012, there was a lot of discussion on it here and it was a lot fresher in my mind back then. I am not sure your stats on that match are correct, I would very much like to get that match posted onto Youtube if anyone has it...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=314352&highlight=racking&page=2
 
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