Karl Boyes should he have been called for a foul!

erhino41 said:
yes I realize my mistake. I think I took someone else's response as your own interpretation. It is funny how the brains of pool players work. We didn't shoot the shot and it did not affect us in any direct way, yet we still need to understand WHY?! We are so used to dissecting what happens on every shot in order to be able to plan for it next time, we just can't let anything go unexplained, that does not compute.
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Exactly. What I take from this shot is a good lesson in paying attention. I mean, in a match where there isn't a ref, you have to pay attention anyway. But if my opponent smacks the table with his cue, or slings a piece of chalk against the wall (which has happened :eek:), I'm going to pay closer attention to any rolling balls to ensure nothing funny happens as a result of his interfering actions. I mean, if the cb is headed for an obvious scratch, and my opponent accidentally or purposely knocks a cube of chalk off the rail and onto the playing surface where it interferes with the path of the CB, is that a foul?
 
If Ralf had gotten up from his chair immediately after this happened, which in hindsight he should have, and claimed that the cue slamming into the table may have caused the CB to veer off the cushion, then it would have been very interesting what the referee would have ruled. Being the gentleman that he is, he didn't, so we will never know.
 
BC21 said:
Exactly. What I take from this shot is a good lesson in paying attention. I mean, in a match where there isn't a ref, you have to pay attention anyway. But if my opponent smacks the table with his cue, or slings a piece of chalk against the wall (which has happened :eek:), I'm going to pay closer attention to any rolling balls to ensure nothing funny happens as a result of his interfering actions. I mean, if the cb is headed for an obvious scratch, and my opponent accidentally or purposely knocks a cube of chalk off the rail and onto the playing surface where it interferes with the path of the CB, is that a foul?
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Yes, that would be a foul. What I've seen that is questionable is when using a racking template and placing it on the rail following the break shot, a player shoots and dislodges the template from the rail, knocking it onto the playing surface, often leaving it dangling off the rail. The cue ball (or an object ball) rolls into the template and it's path is altered by the contact. IMO, that should also be a foul and I have yet to see that one called by any current official. The player at the table is responsible for whatever happens during their turn and should place the template somewhere away from the table!
 
ChrisinNC said:
If Ralf had gotten up from his chair immediately after this happened, which in hindsight he should have, and claimed that the cue slamming into the table may have caused the CB to veer off the cushion, then it would have been very interesting what the referee would have ruled. Being the gentleman that he is, he didn't, so we will never know.
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Depends on who the referee was Chris. Some of them can be intimidated into making an incorrect call. Nigel Rees is not one of them. I'm not sure about the other two refs who worked in the first round.
 
erhino41 said:
... As far as an unsportsmanlike foul, they don't just hand them out like candy, and it certainly should take a lot more than that to warrant one. ...
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I can think of three or four or ten players who would never play again if they did hand them out for a little stick slapping. There is a video on YouTube of a match I played in the US Open Straight Pool in 2016. Check out my opponent's last shot.
 
jay helfert said:
... The cue ball (or an object ball) rolls into the template and it's path is altered by the contact. ...
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I believe that was explicitly called out in the last US Open 9-ball players' meeting. I think most of the players were careful about moving the template to the side table. I didn't see any template foul so I don't know if it was ever called or not.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I can think of three or four or ten players who would never play again if they did hand them out for a little stick slapping. There is a video on YouTube of a match I played in the US Open Straight Pool in 2016. Check out my opponent's last shot.
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Your scratch at 101 points was equally as hard luck as Shane’s at the 141 mark...
...but you handled it a lot better.
...but I agree, there should be no penalty for this pique performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1AQ21-oBmU
 
pt109 said:
Your scratch at 101 points was equally as hard luck as Shane’s at the 141 mark.. ...
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Actually, he had 82 when he scratched, I think.

And according to what they told us at the players' meeting, cue ball slapping was a 15-point penalty.
 
jay helfert said:
Karl hitting the table with his shaft had no effect on the path of the cue ball. I've seen far worse many, many times by a myriad of pro players, who were showing their frustration about a bad shot or bad roll. Watch any of Earl's old matches (and new ones too) and you will see bad behavior in every one of them. He probably got more warnings than all the rest of the field combined in many of the events I worked on. And yes, he was called for fouls because of his behavior on more than one occasion (after he had already been warned).
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What about Karl putting all his weight on the end rail/slate with his left hand, then the cue ball starts rolling off?
Are players allowed to do hand stands on the other side of the table?
Karl has been known to lurk here...c'mon Mr. Boyes, fess up.
:cool:
 
Bob Jewett said:
Actually, he had 82 when he scratched, I think.

And according to what they told us at the players' meeting, cue ball slapping was a 15-point penalty.
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I think he meant 1:41 minute marker, not points. Either way, I’ve seen him do that a few times. He gets pretty frustrated at times.
 
After watching this video several times, it sure seems to me that the ball changed direction at the approximate location of the head slate seam. Coincidence? Maybe...
 
Bob Jewett said:
Actually, he had 82 when he scratched, I think.

And according to what they told us at the players' meeting, cue ball slapping was a 15-point penalty.
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easy-e said:
I think he meant 1:41 minute marker, not points. Either way, I’ve seen him do that a few times. He gets pretty frustrated at times.
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Yeah, my post was poorly expressed....I did indeed mean 1:41 time on the vid.

..but I have some excuses...it was a long day....distracting things were happening at the time...
...and my caddy is an idiot
 
bradsh98 said:
After watching this video several times, it sure seems to me that the ball changed direction at the approximate location of the head slate seam. Coincidence? Maybe...
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I wish I'd noticed whether once that game ended, between games, if either the referee or Ralf rubbed their fingertips across that spot on the table (roughly at the headstring on the side rail) to determine what may have caused that CB to veer off the rail. I find it hard to believe the slate seam would have been off that severely to cause the CB to do what it did, for a table set up for a major pro tournament. My guess would be a very small chunk of chalk.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I wish I'd noticed whether once that game ended, between games, if either the referee or Ralf rubbed their fingertips across that spot on the table (roughly at the headstring on the side rail) to determine what may have caused that CB to veer off the rail. I find it hard to believe the slate seam would have been off that severely to cause the CB to do what it did, for a table set up for a major pro tournament. My guess would be a very small chunk of chalk.
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I didn't watch the whole set. I did scroll through parts of it, trying to determine whether the head slate may have been off-level. Though, I didn't put a whole lot of time into my investigation.

However, I do know that a seam does not have to be off by very much, to change the direction of a slow rolling ball. Just noting another possibility. It could very well have been caused by debris.
 
bradsh98 said:
I didn't watch the whole set. I did scroll through parts of it, trying to determine whether the head slate may have been off-level. Though, I didn't put a whole lot of time into my investigation.

However, I do know that a seam does not have to be off by very much, to change the direction of a slow rolling ball. Just noting another possibility. It could very well have been caused by debris.
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Usually a slate seam being off would be most noticeable for a ball rolling slowly across the table in the area of the slate seam, then rolling over that slate seam and changing it's direction. It shouldn't be that noticeable for a ball rolling up and down the table as the CB was in that instance. I would agree with you that debris was the cause in this instance.
 
The ball was deflected by a speck of something on the table, not by any vibration caused by Boyes' cue hitting it.

And if you're going to penalize a one time spontaneous act of frustration, what are you going to do about Earl's constant talking while his opponents are shooting? If there were an Olympics Medal for Bad Sportsmanship, Earl would've won the Gold for the last 30 years.

AFAIC Boyes made a great comeback under the most intense pressure imaginable. Good for him. I notice Souquet didn't try to make an issue of it.
 
I was watching the match between Boyes and Alcaide, and I noticed this interesting shot
https://youtu.be/2mRfjqC_ZTI?t=51m37s
(shot is in 51m37s)

The one ball clearly turned towards the middle of the table, roughly in the same area as the Karl's shot.

To me this proves that it was the table's fault both times.
 
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