Keith McCready: Toughest Gamblers Ever

[wincardona]

Dumping?

Absolutely agree. A deal is a deal.

From your original post, it sounded like the stakehorse had to give a good cut of the money or they were being greedy. If it is 1%, 50%, or 90% is should be agreed upon and adhered to before the match.

What you are talking about now is basically the breaking of a verbal contract. Thats like going to work for $20 an hour and at the end of the week your boss says, "Ya, know what, I think I will just pay you $10 an hour." Screw dat! Someone gonna get a arrssWhooopin and a new pair of cement shoes!

tap tap tap. Exactly,lets keep this in perspective. Anyone with sense should know that whenever agreements are broken their are consequences. In this instance a backer exploited a player and actually stole a percentage of the players money after the match ended.I undestand that he didn't use a gun,he just put it in his pocket and walked,but in either case it was stolen. So the player retaliated by setting another game up and stealing his money back,and them some.At least the backer got a show,that's a hell of a lot more than the player got when his money was stolen. Don't get me wrong I don't condone dumping,but their are exceptions to just about every rule.Oh by the way their are also worse consequenses than what the backer got,if you know what I mean.So lets just mark this one up as karma.

 

[CaptiveBred]

what is a player supposed to do to get the rest of the 50-percent share?


JAM

You don't dump... you dig...

 

[ioCross]

lol, unbelievable. Without steak horses there wouldn't be any heavy action PERIOD. How in the world would players that have no money ever gamble? If you really believe what you just wrote then its no wonder pool players have the stigma of being low down dirt bags. I have no respect for any player that would ever dump, especially the hand that feed's them. WTF?

you don't know many pro players.

you'd be surprised by the number of big names in pro pool that have dumped/are willing to dump in matches, be it tourneys or gambling.

honestly, it's that type of underhandedness thats one of the factors keeping the good sponsors away from pool.

 

[jason]

Don't get me wrong I don't condone dumping,but their are exceptions to just about every rule.

Agreed. When a backer steals money he deserves what he gets.

The dumpers I'm talking about are when 2 players get together to rob a stakehorse just because they know he has a large bankroll. They put on a show and then split the money in the parking lot. The steakhorse had no chance to win. We all know it has happened and will happen again. This is simply immoral and criminal.

We've all seen it whether it was a prize fight, NCAA basketball game, or the infamous Chicago "Black" Sox. Dumping happens.

 

[corvette1340]

you don't know many pro players.

you'd be surprised by the number of big names in pro pool that have dumped/are willing to dump in matches, be it tourneys or gambling.

honestly, it's that type of underhandedness thats one of the factors keeping the good sponsors away from pool.

quite the contrary. I know almost everyone of the pro players personally. I have witnessed dumps and heard about several others that I can't authenticate because I didn't see them but am fairly certain about. I was just commenting on the fact that I don't understand how they can do that to people that are giving them a chance to make money. I know the seedy logistics, a quick buck/short term gain, but it doesn't make good business sense in the long run.

 

[Ron Cook]

I heard Denny Searcy was one of the best money players in California at one time. Also Cole Dixon was another, when he was young he went to LA and broke everone playing pay ball, and a whole bunch of great players was there playing at the time.

Denny was before my time and I never got to see Denny play, but Cole was fearless, and I got to see him play several times, and Keith and Bucktooth would also bet high when they played each other and other players.

Bucktooth once backed filipino Gene and Gene beat Keith out of like $18K getting the 6 ball. Who in there right mind would loose that kind of money and still stay in the game?

I guess that is why they call him "Keither with the ether."

 

[perfectpocketz]

Toughest Gamblers Ever

I moved to S. calif. back in 79 and lived in Anaheim for to years.
I watched Keith play for 2 years, it was awesome to witness how
flawless he played. Left hand almost as well. I know most all of
the players today and, played a lot of champions myself. I still
haven't watched another play like Keith.

Maybe (imo) bar the break, just his touch around the table, he had
to of been the (TOUGHEST GAMBLER EVER).

(TRUE GREATNESS ON ANY SIZE TABLE)

Mark Gregory

 

[Jerry OC]

I guess that is why they call him "Keither with the ether."

Negatory, they called Keith that because he was always running so many racks on you that he put you to sleep.

Ether = formerly used as an anesthetic to put people to sleep

 

[hejests]

quite the contrary. I know almost everyone of the pro players personally. I have witnessed dumps and heard about several others that I can't authenticate because I didn't see them but am fairly certain about. I was just commenting on the fact that I don't understand how they can do that to people that are giving them a chance to make money. I know the seedy logistics, a quick buck/short term gain, but it doesn't make good business sense in the long run.

IMO I think you either totally misunderstood what jam was saying or purposefully ignored it (dunno which).

If a backer agrees to a 50/50 split at the start of the match, but at the end of the match once funds are exchanged and they pocket the money decide to change to split to say 75/25 in their favor and screw the player (because they can), how exactly are they giving the player a chance to make money? The only thing they're actually giving the player is a chance to get robbed on money they earned.

This is no different than a business owner hiring an employee to work for 20$/hr and then after a days work only paying them at a rate of say 10$/hr. The only difference is that with a typical job you have typical recourse (employment legislation, courts etc), with gambling income the recourse is different (dumping, beatings, bad mouthing etc...)

 

[Johnnyt]

The same could be said about backers who agree to a payout arrangement, and then once the monies are in the backer's hands, the backer proceeds to take what they want and pay out what they want.

If an agreement is made between a backer and a player, it should be adhered to.

The reason I feel very strongly about this is that I experienced a backer withhold $2,000 out of $2,500 when the cut was supposed to be 50/50 between the backer and the player. Once the money is in the backer's pockets, what is a player supposed to do to get the rest of the 50-percent share? It is not like you can call the police and ask for assistance. In this instance, the backer ripped the player off and did not adhere to the original agreement of a 50/50 split.

I will continue to hold my minority opinion on this topic. Have at me and my opinion. I'm getting used to it on this forum. I am long in the tooth, and my skin is much thicker than it used to be.

JAM

I'm sure what you said is true that a banker shorted a player money. My question is, what are wrong with these players that get taken like that? Smack him in the head with a cue stick and take your money. Hire someone to rob him and take more than enough. Wait for him by his car on another night with a shotgun. I have never...THATS NEVER let someone get away with that kind of crap in my life. When you fight back people tend not to mess with you anymore. Unbelievable. Johnnyt

 

[smokeandapancak]

I'm sure what you said is true that a banker shorted a player money. My question is, what are wrong with these players that get taken like that? Smack him in the head with a cue stick and take your money. Hire someone to rob him and take more than enough. Wait for him by his car on another night with a shotgun. I have never...THATS NEVER let someone get away with that kind of crap in my life. When you fight back people tend not to mess with you anymore. Unbelievable. Johnnyt

you are so Gangsta

 

[Johnnyt]

you are so Gangsta

Sorry, I got carried away there for a minute. Johnnyt

 

[jay helfert]

Sorry, I got carried away there for a minute. Johnnyt

You know Johnny, we came from the same school. My feeling has always been that if someone tries to rob you, they are now fair game for whatever remedy you can devise. I once went to a guys house at 7AM, and when his girlfriend answered the door I went into his bedroom and confronted him. I left with his color TV. TRUE STORY.

Another time, my beer mug "accidentally" made contact with the side of a guy's face. He had refused to give me $100 in stake money that he had been holding for a match I won. When he was on the ground I reached down and removed the money from his shirt pocket. He was a fairly big guy but he avoided me from then on.

I no longer engage in such activities, but I have found some clever ways to get guys to pay me that owed me money, including "garnishing" the purses of a pro player (he is well known). I took half his winnings until his debt was cleared. Don't ask me because I won't say who it was. This happened in the 90's.

 

[Fast Lenny]

You know Johnny, we came from the same school. My feeling has always been that if someone tries to rob you, they are now fair game for whatever remedy you can devise. I once went to a guys house at 7AM, and when his girlfriend answered the door I went into his bedroom and confronted him. I left with his color TV. TRUE STORY.

Another time, my beer mug "accidentally" made contact with the side of a guy's face. He had refused to give me $100 in stake money that he had been holding for a match I won. When he was on the ground I reached down and removed the money from his shirt pocket. He was a fairly big guy but he avoided me from then on.

I no longer engage in such activities, but I have found some clever ways to get guys to pay me that owed me money, including "garnishing" the purses of a pro player (he is well known). I took half his winnings until his debt was cleared. Don't ask me because I won't say who it was. This happened in the 90's.

Haha,Im glad to hear Im not the only one who walked in a guys house and took his TV because of a debt.

 

[corvette1340]

IMO I think you either totally misunderstood what jam was saying or purposefully ignored it (dunno which).

If a backer agrees to a 50/50 split at the start of the match, but at the end of the match once funds are exchanged and they pocket the money decide to change to split to say 75/25 in their favor and screw the player (because they can), how exactly are they giving the player a chance to make money? The only thing they're actually giving the player is a chance to get robbed on money they earned.

This is no different than a business owner hiring an employee to work for 20$/hr and then after a days work only paying them at a rate of say 10$/hr. The only difference is that with a typical job you have typical recourse (employment legislation, courts etc), with gambling income the recourse is different (dumping, beatings, bad mouthing etc...)

I wasn't referring to the post that Jam made later in the thread. I was referring to the initial post that she made in which she made no connection between a broken verbal contract and dumping in general. Go back and read the entire thread before you comment on things. I agree that it is wrong for a backer to chop in any way contrary to the intial agreement with the player. That being said I still think that there is a better way to go about retribution for the player. Kicking the backers ass first comes to mind and if that isn't an option then simply never dealing with the backer again and spreading the negative info. about him will hurt him more than anything. All that setting him up for a dump does is lower the player to the already slimey perception of pool players and makes it hard for the player to get honest backing in the future.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[Black-Balled]

I tend to agree with you. But sometimes theres grave consequences with that route too. ...be sure you know what you are risking. And make sure you are in control before doing anything you might really regret later.

Nice post, Neil. Too much sadness in this world already.

 

[Johnnyt]

Nice post, Neil. Too much sadness in this world already.

Your both right, there are way too many lawyers out there now a days. I'd like to shoot a few of them too. Johnnyt

 

[Black-Balled]

Your both right, there are way too many lawyers out there now a days. I'd like to shoot a few of them too. Johnnyt

Can you leave a couple for me? They sure do keep me out of a lotta $trouble$. For work I mean, really.

 

[Poo1h0Lic]

These are great stories, Keith. Thank you for sharing them with us.
Pool really needs some sort of an interview show where guys like Keith and Buddy Hall can sit down and tell some of the great stories they've accumulated over the years. Maybe something online with the action report.
I would love to see something along those lines.

well get ur @$$ in the action hollywood