kiln drying wood

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I see a lot of wood for sale that is kiln dried, but i dont see any tulipwood thats been kiln dried. Why is that? Will kiln drying tulipwood make it crack or check? Im just curious, im not trying to rush it, but i do wanna build a tulip and ebony cue soon.

Joe
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I see a lot of wood for sale that is kiln dried, but i dont see any tulipwood thats been kiln dried. Why is that? Will kiln drying tulipwood make it crack or check? Im just curious, im not trying to rush it, but i do wanna build a tulip and ebony cue soon.

Joe

The tulipwood I have seen (and bought) as logs, half logs and squares cut from them comes from Mexico as does Cocobolo, Bocote, Camatillo, Grenadillo, Bocote, etc. I have not ever seen kiln dried in any of these species. Always air dried. A major USA importer of Mexican hardwoods (Mitch) commented a few weeks ago that tulipwood has not been available for a while.

Martin
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The tulipwood I have seen (and bought) as logs, half logs and squares cut from them comes from Mexico as does Cocobolo, Bocote, Camatillo, Grenadillo, Bocote, etc. I have not ever seen kiln dried in any of these species. Always air dried. A major USA importer of Mexican hardwoods (Mitch) commented a few weeks ago that tulipwood has not been available for a while.

Martin


Tulipwood from Mexico!? We've always imported tulipwood from Brazil. I never knew Mexico had tulipwood. I learn something new here almost daily.

The last tulipwood we brought in was about 4 years ago and we're still selling from that batch. There are no current importations and thus a slight scarcity has developed. We know there is a shortage when pen blank sellers call us for blanks and that is currently the case.

Mitch is indeed an importer but hardly a "major" USA importer. Major importers make him look like Mickey Mouse although they do have a very successful business.
 
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jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I could be wrong on the origins of the tulipwood I've bought from Mitch. What I've seen has always been air dried. I'll add the only color tulip I like is a deep orange. The stripey straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy IMO.

Martin


Tulipwood from Mexico!? We've always imported tulipwood from Brazil. I never knew Mexico had tulipwood. I learn something new here almost daily.

The last tulipwood we brought in was about 4 years ago and we're still selling from that batch. There are no current importations and thus a slight scarcity has developed. We know there is a shortage when pen blank sellers call us for blanks and that is currently the case.

Mitch is indeed an importer but hardly a "major" USA importer. Major importers make him look like Mickey Mouse although they do have a very successful business.
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I could be wrong on the origins of the tulipwood I've bought from Mitch. What I've seen has always been air dried. I'll add the only color tulip I like is a deep orange. The stripey straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy IMO.

Martin

"could be wrong" -- ok...

For someone who has "seen (and bought) as logs, half logs and squares cut from them comes from Mexico", I find it amazing that you could forget where the product comes from. Buying logs and half logs is serious business and requires serious processing. Surprising that you would forget where it came from. I would assume anyone purchasing logs and half logs would know this simple little fact although I could be mistaken.

What I would like to ask is how do you come to have the opinion that the "stripey straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy"? Other than fiddling in a cue makers shop with Sneaky Pete's, what are your qualifications to make such a statement? Have you handled hundreds and perhaps even thousands of sticks of tulipwood? Have you made hundreds of cues with tulipwood? Have you sold hundreds or thousands of tulipwood turning squares to countless professional cue makers who actually have made cues? So, the cue makers who purchased this "stripey straw colored tulipwood" that "isn't cue worthy"' would like to know this as well. Why do you make these ridiculous and outlandish statements whereby casting doubt and painting a broad spectrum of the profession with these non-issues.

Would your previous statements qualify as mere selling points (to the uninitiated) such as having people believe that you can pick Davis blanks by tone? Someone once posted that he "contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a blank from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue". What I would like to ask you is if you're picking out the finest Davis blanks with "high tone", who are the fools buying the left over blanks that do not qualify for making "superior" hitting cues? I would venture to say that John Dvis would probably like to know this fact as well.

It ticks me off when people come on here and spew misinformation and opinions with little to no experience with what they're talking about. No offense Martin but I take exception to your statements as should the cue makers you represent by selling their cues. I assume they all make superior hitting cues with tonal characteristics meeting your approval and all other cues out there must, just plain suck.
 

bdcues

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I could be wrong on the origins of the tulipwood I've bought from Mitch. What I've seen has always been air dried. I'll add the only color tulip I like is a deep orange. The stripey straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy IMO.

Martin

Tulipwood does indeed come from Brazil and the best color is a deep strawberry. Most of the Tulipwood I have seen lately is not as dark and the log sections are getting smaller but the properties of the wood are no different.
Most any wood can be kiln dried but importers seldom go through the time and expense. Why would they when they can sell the wood without going through either?
Any one know if Mitch even has a kiln? Was at his place years ago and suppose it has changed some.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
tulip wood

I see a lot of wood for sale that is kiln dried, but i dont see any tulipwood thats been kiln dried. Why is that? Will kiln drying tulipwood make it crack or check? Im just curious, im not trying to rush it, but i do wanna build a tulip and ebony cue soon.

Joe

Joe I have some tulip wood from 2004 air dried
pm me if you are interested.

All the other tulip wood I have has gas !
Farts blue flames very unstable.


MMike
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Are these the new chalker pipes Mike?

I'm out of the loop. I thought all Tulip wood came from Holland.
 

Lexicologist71

Rabid Schuler fanatic
Silver Member
There are a lot of other woods besides tulipwood that seem to see the kiln less often than maple. I am guessing it has more to do with total yield than a particular susceptibility to cracking. Redheart is another wood that requires some shopping to find it kiln dried. Lucky for me, a friend of mine has a kiln.
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hey Joe, I think you're better off not posting here because you seem to blow a gasket on every other post! BTW, I've probably spent as much time working at making cues as you have! That is immaterial though. On the color of tulipwood, I am merely stating what I prefer--but in fact, everyknown cuemaker I have talked with about tulipwood has more or less said the same thing, they don't like the looks of the straw colored stuff. Many don't like it at all just from an appearance standpoint.

The wood tone issue is also a preference that I also share with lots and lots of respected cuemakers. Its just one wood characteristic though, like linear grain, density, etc.

Martin



"could be wrong" -- ok...

For someone who has "seen (and bought) as logs, half logs and squares cut from them comes from Mexico", I find it amazing that you could forget where the product comes from. Buying logs and half logs is serious business and requires serious processing. Surprising that you would forget where it came from. I would assume anyone purchasing logs and half logs would know this simple little fact although I could be mistaken.

What I would like to ask is how do you come to have the opinion that the "stripey straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy"? Other than fiddling in a cue makers shop with Sneaky Pete's, what are your qualifications to make such a statement? Have you handled hundreds and perhaps even thousands of sticks of tulipwood? Have you made hundreds of cues with tulipwood? Have you sold hundreds or thousands of tulipwood turning squares to countless professional cue makers who actually have made cues? So, the cue makers who purchased this "stripey straw colored tulipwood" that "isn't cue worthy"' would like to know this as well. Why do you make these ridiculous and outlandish statements whereby casting doubt and painting a broad spectrum of the profession with these non-issues.

Would your previous statements qualify as mere selling points (to the uninitiated) such as having people believe that you can pick Davis blanks by tone? Someone once posted that he "contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a blank from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue". What I would like to ask you is if you're picking out the finest Davis blanks with "high tone", who are the fools buying the left over blanks that do not qualify for making "superior" hitting cues? I would venture to say that John Dvis would probably like to know this fact as well.

It ticks me off when people come on here and spew misinformation and opinions with little to no experience with what they're talking about. No offense Martin but I take exception to your statements as should the cue makers you represent by selling their cues. I assume they all make superior hitting cues with tonal characteristics meeting your approval and all other cues out there must, just plain suck.
 
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Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Joe, I think you're better off not posting here because you seem to blow a gasket on every other post! BTW, I've probably spent as much time working at making cues as you have! That is immaterial though. On the color of tulipwood, I am merely stating what I prefer--but in fact, everyknown cuemaker I have talked with about tulipwood has more or less said the same thing, they don't like the looks of the straw colored stuff. Many don't like it at all just from an appearance standpoint.

The wood tone issue is also a preference that I also share with lots and lots of respected cuemakers. Its just one wood characteristic though, like linear grain, density, etc.

Martin

Hey Martin, I think you're better off not posing on here because every time you do it's a crock of BS. You don't know nor do you have a clue. You say whatever you feel sounds good to potential cue buyers..

Dont try to derail my post. No one blew a gasket. I made statements to which you don't have an answer. You've spent as much time working at making cues as I have huh. Very interesting indeed. You mean you tried to spend time at making cues and found it more difficult and time consuming than you wanted to deal with. Isn't that what you meant.

You did not state that you prefer one color over the other; you stated that, "The stripey" straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy". Did you read that? You stated that it "isn't cue worthy". That is a far cry from what you're now stating. Once again you can't support your claims. We've sold hundreds of striped tulipwood to well known cue makers, even some whose cues you sell and they don't seem to find issue with it. You're full of yourself and in an effort to sell cues, you make up whatever is necessary to sell a given cue.

You failed to address the statement, "Would your previous statements qualify as mere selling points (to the uninitiated) such as having people believe that you can pick Davis blanks by tone? Someone once posted that he "contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a blank from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue". What I would like to ask you is if you're picking out the finest Davis blanks with "high tone", who are the fools buying the left over blanks that do not qualify for making "superior" hitting cues? I would venture to say that John Davis would probably like to know this fact as well.

So answer this Martin. What does Davis do with the blanks that don't qualify as "superior". I think you are full of yourself and you can't support your statements with facts because it's all BS.

You don't like me posting on here because I call you to task for your ridiculous statements.

And one more statement that you made and I quote, "The wood tone issue is also a preference that I also share with lots and lots of respected cuemakers". The respected cue makers we deal with, we all laugh at the tone picking qualities. Your ear cannot distinguish the differences with any consistency and accuracy. And, I'll make you the same wager I offered to the other harmonics guy. I'll wager $10k that you couldn't pick the same shafts twice based on tone.

Have a nice weekend.
 

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
I was going to pm these pictures to joe

But maybe I can learn from you guys so here is some tulip wood.
You guys can rate it .










MMike ps
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Have fun in the mud by yourself Joe!

Martin


Hey Martin, I think you're better off not posing on here because every time you do it's a crock of BS. You don't know nor do you have a clue. You say whatever you feel sounds good to potential cue buyers..

Dont try to derail my post. No one blew a gasket. I made statements to which you don't have an answer. You've spent as much time working at making cues as I have huh. Very interesting indeed. You mean you tried to spend time at making cues and found it more difficult and time consuming than you wanted to deal with. Isn't that what you meant.

You did not state that you prefer one color over the other; you stated that, "The stripey" straw colored tulipwood isn't cue worthy". Did you read that? You stated that it "isn't cue worthy". That is a far cry from what you're now stating. Once again you can't support your claims. We've sold hundreds of striped tulipwood to well known cue makers, even some whose cues you sell and they don't seem to find issue with it. You're full of yourself and in an effort to sell cues, you make up whatever is necessary to sell a given cue.

You failed to address the statement, "Would your previous statements qualify as mere selling points (to the uninitiated) such as having people believe that you can pick Davis blanks by tone? Someone once posted that he "contacted Martin at Superior Cues and he hand picked out a blank from John Davis with high tone and density and explained to me that these qualities are needed to have the potential to make a superior hitting cue". What I would like to ask you is if you're picking out the finest Davis blanks with "high tone", who are the fools buying the left over blanks that do not qualify for making "superior" hitting cues? I would venture to say that John Davis would probably like to know this fact as well.

So answer this Martin. What does Davis do with the blanks that don't qualify as "superior". I think you are full of yourself and you can't support your statements with facts because it's all BS.

You don't like me posting on here because I call you to task for your ridiculous statements.

And one more statement that you made and I quote, "The wood tone issue is also a preference that I also share with lots and lots of respected cuemakers". The respected cue makers we deal with, we all laugh at the tone picking qualities. Your ear cannot distinguish the differences with any consistency and accuracy. And, I'll make you the same wager I offered to the other harmonics guy. I'll wager $10k that you couldn't pick the same shafts twice based on tone.

Have a nice weekend.
 
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mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
wood

Thanks joe.

I would like to say Its the best tullipwood I have, truth is its the only tulip wood I have .
I thought I had more But I was wrong or havent found it yet .
Anyway joe its your choice.
MMike
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have fun in the mud by yourself Joe!

Martin


Martin, the only mud here is the deep BS you try to pass on to your unsuspecting clients by telling them crap as I've outlined previously. You have no answers and you slither away like the snake you are.

I posed valid questions to which you have no answers because you got caught. For someone who claims to have cut logs and half logs and then not know where the wood came from seems suspicious to me otherwise known as BS.

You then make statements that a certain type of tulipwood "isn't cue worthy" and when I questioned your statement, you back-peddled away by then stating that you just didn't like the color? Well which is it? Not cue worthy or just a color preference?

And lastly, you backed off on the tone quality issue because you know as well as I do and as well as every knowledgeable and respected cue maker will tell you that your ears cannot pick wood or cue blanks by their tonal characteristics with any accuracy. Just more Martin BS.

Oh and let's not forget your far reaching statement that you pick the best Davis blanks for a "superior" hit. Well if that's the case then Davis would be left with blanks that won't produce a "superior" hit because you bought them. So my question was, who are the people buying these left over inferior blanks that are no longer "superior"?

You see Martin, by making these ridiculous statements and claims, you're actually hurting the people you're dealing with because you're casting doubt on their other products that aren't 'picked' or chosen by you.

And lastly, my invitation is still open to you and the other harmonics guy - I'll wager you $10k that you cannot pick the same shafts twice by tone. We'll video the entire process and show you to be the fool you are for making such statements.

And on that's note I'm out of here. I want to wish you Martin and the rest of you a fantastic week ahead.
 
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lenoxmjs

Brazilian Rosewood Fan
Silver Member
Why wouldn't a person be able to pick which shaft or dowel has a higher tone ? If you had ten dowels and bounced them one at a time and compared them to the next one you bounced it seems to me that it would be fairly easy to arrange them in order highest to lowest tone if that was your perogitive
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why wouldn't a person be able to pick which shaft or dowel has a higher tone ? If you had ten dowels and bounced them one at a time and compared them to the next one you bounced it seems to me that it would be fairly easy to arrange them in order highest to lowest tone if that was your perogitive
It sounds like you may be the one for Joe's challenge. You can make yourself some cash or lose it.

On the other hand I have carried kiln dried Tulipwood for years.
Tulipwood, Ebony and a few others do not like being kiln dried and the risk is huge that you will lose a lot of it when drying. That is why most of both of those woods come air dried. But I carry both kiln dried. I have been told low heat and moisture being added to the kiln is the trick for success.
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It sounds like you may be the one for Joe's challenge. You can make yourself some cash or lose it.

On the other hand I have carried kiln dried Tulipwood for years.
Tulipwood, Ebony and a few others do not like being kiln dried and the risk is huge that you will lose a lot of it when drying. That is why most of both of those woods come air dried. But I carry both kiln dried. I have been told low heat and moisture being added to the kiln is the trick for success.

Finally, the post of rationality and reason. Thanks for chiming in Chris and you are precisely correct. Ebony and tulipwood were always air dried which is fine as long as its been seasoned and dried for years; it's use will present no problems. Lately many kiln operators have learned how to dry these woods much like in the case of 'stress relieving' maple which I wrote about a decade ago before anyone ever heard of the term. They are applying similar methods to kiln drying ebonies and other exotics.

If any of you care to read about stress relieving, you can read about it here: http://www.cuecomponents.com/strema.html

As far as lenoxmjs post, I'll enlighten you and others why no one can pick shafts by tone with any accuracy and/or consistency...



The problem comes in because the human ear of cue makers cannot consistently and accurately pick shafts by tone.

We're talking about wood that is cut to size of approximately 1" round x 30 inches long. Well we all know there will be variations in those dimensions. Some may be 1.010 round; some may be .998 round; some may be 30.030 long and some may be 29.990 long. The combinations would be countless so the sound will all be different. Add to this the height to which you bounce the wood. It would have to be precisely the same each and every time. I've never seen a height dropping apparatus so that in itself skews the test. There is no control as the wood is all different from the start and with the height difference, there is no way to pick on a consistent and accurate basis. Let's say you like the sound of a piece of wood that is 1.060 round and 30.047 long. If you cut it back to 1" x 30" it will have a slightly different tone; a tone you may not now like. And then what height did you drop it from; 2", 6", 5.75"? The height difference makes a difference as well.

Ok so now your going to pick your shafts by sound and keeping in mind the multitude of variations in the wood. You pick out 200 that you think are the best sounding. That means the rest are rejects. Let's put the 200 back into the mix again and start the pick all over. You'll never pick the same shafts again and you will in fact pick some that you rejected previously. This has already been proven.

One observation: everyone who has made this tonal quality claim seems to emanate from California. Are there any cue makers who share this belief that they can pick shafts by tone reside on the east coast?
 
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