kiln drying wood

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I like to bounce wood just to hear the sweet sound.............

is it good or is it bad....... I don't know

I just like to do it...........

Kim
 

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Finally, the post of rationality and reason. Thanks for chiming in Chris and you are precisely correct. Ebony and tulipwood were always air dried which is fine as long as its been seasoned and dried for years; it's use will present no problems. Lately many kiln operators have learned how to dry these woods much like in the case of 'stress relieving' maple which I wrote about a decade ago before anyone ever heard of the term. They are applying similar methods to kiln drying ebonies and other exotics.

If any of you care to read about stress relieving, you can read about it here: http://www.cuecomponents.com/strema.html

As far as lenoxmjs post, I'll enlighten you and others why no one can pick shafts by tone with any accuracy and/or consistency...



The problem comes in because the human ear of cue makers cannot consistently and accurately pick shafts by tone.

We're talking about wood that is cut to size of approximately 1" round x 30 inches long. Well we all know there will be variations in those dimensions. Some may be 1.010 round; some may be .998 round; some may be 30.030 long and some may be 29.990 long. The combinations would be countless so the sound will all be different. Add to this the height to which you bounce the wood. It would have to be precisely the same each and every time. I've never seen a height dropping apparatus so that in itself skews the test. There is no control as the wood is all different from the start and with the height difference, there is no way to pick on a consistent and accurate basis. Let's say you like the sound of a piece of wood that is 1.060 round and 30.047 long. If you cut it back to 1" x 30" it will have a slightly different tone; a tone you may not now like. And then what height did you drop it from; 2", 6", 5.75"? The height difference makes a difference as well.

Ok so now your going to pick your shafts by sound and keeping in mind the multitude of variations in the wood. You pick out 200 that you think are the best sounding. That means the rest are rejects. Let's put the 200 back into the mix again and start the pick all over. You'll never pick the same shafts again and you will in fact pick some that you rejected previously. This has already been proven.

One observation: everyone who has made this tonal quality claim seems to emanate from California. Are there any cue makers who share this belief that they can pick shafts by tone reside on the east coast?

I have a friend who says that he used to often visit Balabushka's shop when he was younger and that George had a metal plate with 4 short metal legs that kept the plate off of the counter top. He said that George would take a box of new blanks that he had purchased and drop them one at a time on to this plate a couple of times and listen to the tone. Every once in a while he would like what he heard and sit that shaft aside. He said that out of a box of blanks he would only keep 2 or 3 or 4 and then send all of the rest on down to Palmer cues which they either used or also picked over and sent off their rejects.

The man who told me this is one of the best authorities on Balabushka's and Szamboti's owning the largest collection of each.

Dick
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Joe Sniper. I don't know if you're interested but I have done some reading on home built kilns.

Don't know how effective they might be but interesting just the same.

They don't have to be massive. A rack or two to sticker the wood.

A heat source, a fan for circulation, proper gauges, etc.

Just another side to wood working that some may be interested in and others not.
 

Jobba786

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Joe: Listening to tone is something that some cue makers do, like Ariel Carmeli as written on your web site. Whether it works or not or whether they can recognize the same shaft by tone is another question. Would like to hear some more imput here from you or other cue makers.

Martin: I would like to hear your answers to Joe's questions.

Just to make it clear: I have purchased from both of them without any problems at all, and I am happy that they contribute to AZ.

Thanks, Jon Birger
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Joe: Listening to tone is something that some cue makers do, like Ariel Carmeli as written on your web site. Whether it works or not or whether they can recognize the same shaft by tone is another question. Would like to hear some more imput here from you or other cue makers.

Martin: I would like to hear your answers to Joe's questions.

Just to make it clear: I have purchased from both of them without any problems at all, and I am happy that they contribute to AZ.

Thanks, Jon Birger

Hi Jon, Joe doesn't have questions or seek to understand or discuss an issue. Back cycle though his posts here on AZB (funny he used to severely ridicule the people of AZB forum and is now posting here more frequently for business). His know it all/ abrasive/ abusive character is evident if you were to read his posts. Joe seeks to pull anyone into the mud with him and beat them with his experience. The best way to deal with this type of individual on a public forum is to simply not feed or engage him. Nobody wins. Even though I'd love to, I won't participate in a bashing spiral on AZB--even if it is highly entertaining.:D

There are lots of things that are not at all appropriate for a public forum IMO. At the end of the day I do care about my conduct. I'd be glad to try to answer any specific questions you might have in a PM.

Martin
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Jon, Joe doesn't have questions or seek to understand or discuss an issue. Back cycle though his posts here on AZB (funny he used to severely ridicule the people of AZB forum and is now posting here more frequently for business). His know it all/ abrasive/ abusive character is evident if you were to read his posts. Joe seeks to pull anyone into the mud with him and beat them with his experience. The best way to deal with this type of individual on a public forum is to simply not feed or engage him. Nobody wins. Even though I'd love to, I won't participate in a bashing spiral on AZB--even if it is highly entertaining.:D

There are lots of things that are not at all appropriate for a public forum IMO. At the end of the day I do care about my conduct. I'd be glad to try to answer any specific questions you might have in a PM.

Martin


Martin,

You are so full of yourself. You should run for political office as you're very good at deflecting, side stepping the issue and not answering the questions posed to you.

You have the gall to state that I don't "understand" or want to "discuss the issue". No one here understands this issue more than me and no one is willing to discuss it in bottom line facts. This is about you making irresponsible statements and then not answering questions about those irresponsible statements when called to task. The reason you can't answer them is because you're not dealing with some uninformed potential client here where you can dazzle them with your ignorance.

You now state that there "are lots of things that are not at all appropriate for a public forum IMO. At the end of the day I do care about my conduct. I'd be glad to try to answer any specific questions you might have in a PM."

I find that statement contradictory to your last actions when you made statements that are misleading and borderline lying with regard to cutting logs and picking "superior' products from your suppliers. That's ok to do in public but when called to task, you don't want to discuss statements you made in public stating they shouldn't be discussed in public. If you cared about your conduct you wouldn't have made such misleading statements in public.

Contrary to your moronic statement, I don't post here for business purposes whereas you do. I don't need to as anyone who purchases from us already does and those who don't, won't so there is nothing to gain here. I would rather not post but the misinformation on this forum really ticks me off. You try to answer questions about cues to which you have little or no knowledge. You shouldn't even be answering questions in this section.

How dare you tell a customer that you pick only the "superior" blanks from John Davis as they have the potential to make great hitting cues. After you made that dumb arse statement, my question to you was, if you're picking the "superior" blanks what does John do with all the blanks that aren't "superior"? You can't answer it because you got caught BSing.

I was thinking about sending Davis about 50 Brazilian Rosewood blanks to make full spliced blanks for us but after reading your dumb statement that only you pick the "superior" blanks, that would lead others to think that anything else Davis makes or may have are not "superior' and in fact may be inferior. I would have gotten inquiries to which I would have to explain the issue where there shouldn't be an issue if not for your statement(s). You don't know what you created by making these statements.

You see Martin, by making these ridiculous statements and claims, you're actually hurting the people you're dealing with because you're casting doubt on their other products that aren't 'picked' or chosen by you.

More of your BS is when you stated, that you claim to have cut logs and half logs and then not know where the wood came from which seemed suspicious to me otherwise known as BS.

You then make statements that a certain type of tulipwood "isn't cue worthy" and when I questioned your statement, you back-peddled away by then stating that you just didn't like the color? Well which is it? Not cue worthy or just a color preference?

And lastly, you backed off on the tone quality issue because you know as well as I do and as well as every knowledgeable and respected cue maker will tell you that your ears cannot pick wood or cue blanks by their tonal characteristics with any accuracy. Just more Martin BS.

I'm done. It's OK if you can't deal with it and don't want to answer my tough questions. I'll stop asking the hard questions so you can come out now from under your desk. I have work to do as it's Monday and I can't afford the time during the week. This doesn't mean I won't make the time so don't tempt me.
 

It's George

Bet Something!!!
Silver Member
So if I understand Martin correctly SVB could never retire from playing pool and develop into a top tier cue builder. Is this accurate, Martin?
 

Lexicologist71

Rabid Schuler fanatic
Silver Member
Joe Sniper. I don't know if you're interested but I have done some reading on home built kilns.

Don't know how effective they might be but interesting just the same.

They don't have to be massive. A rack or two to sticker the wood.

A heat source, a fan for circulation, proper gauges, etc.

Just another side to wood working that some may be interested in and others not.

A friend of mine, who has been featured in cabinetry magazines, made his own kiln. It's a little bigger than a one car garage. He used a sealable room (huge doors), one home size dehumidifier, and one box fan with NO other heat source. The dehumidifier drains through a hole in the wall. He has provisions for checking wood moisture content from outside the room. He can dry a LOT of wood in 4 weeks. He also makes a little profit by drying other folk's wood.
 

Lexicologist71

Rabid Schuler fanatic
Silver Member
Having been a trumpet player by trade, I am confident I could, with my human ears, find the highest pitched shaft wood in the bunch. I'm not saying it would necessarily be the 'best' (whatever that is), but I'm sure I could pick them out.
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
A friend of mine, who has been featured in cabinetry magazines, made his own kiln. It's a little bigger than a one car garage. He used a sealable room (huge doors), one home size dehumidifier, and one box fan with NO other heat source. The dehumidifier drains through a hole in the wall. He has provisions for checking wood moisture content from outside the room. He can dry a LOT of wood in 4 weeks. He also makes a little profit by drying other folk's wood.

They gave me a kiln when they built my house.... it's called an attic....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=276762&highlight=drying

Kim
 

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
A friend of mine, who has been featured in cabinetry magazines, made his own kiln. It's a little bigger than a one car garage. He used a sealable room (huge doors), one home size dehumidifier, and one box fan with NO other heat source. The dehumidifier drains through a hole in the wall. He has provisions for checking wood moisture content from outside the room. He can dry a LOT of wood in 4 weeks. He also makes a little profit by drying other folk's wood.

A maple man in Michigan who sells primarily to cuemakers and instrument makers uses a similar set up in a room the size of a bathroom. The room has a dehumidifier, a humidifier, mild heat and a fan. His wood is as good or better than anyones.

Martin
 
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jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
So if I understand Martin correctly SVB could never retire from playing pool and develop into a top tier cue builder. Is this accurate, Martin?

Oh hell no! Utilizing tone for cue woods/ shafts certainly isn't a requirement and is not for everybody. SVB could always take a few pointers from the Tone Ranger if he wanted to. :D

Although there are exceptions, lots of excellent players have gone on to become superb cuemakers. Many of them really know what a really good cue should play like. Bobby Hunter, Mike Gulyassy, Bob Owen, Pete Ohman, Dennis Searing, Kent Davis, Ed Prewitt and Mike Lambros come readily to mind.

Martin
 

MVPCues

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Having been a trumpet player by trade, I am confident I could, with my human ears, find the highest pitched shaft wood in the bunch. I'm not saying it would necessarily be the 'best' (whatever that is), but I'm sure I could pick them out.

You probably could pick some of the highest toned ones with a certain level of repeatability. But, could you to satisfy winning the bet?

Remember the bet is for bouncing shafts. One thing Joe didn't mention when he gave some reasons why he thinks nobody could win the bet was the exact alignment of the face it hits the concrete. The sound will vary a little between the shaft hitting dead flush and it hitting primarily on an edge. In addition to dropping a piece at the same exact height each time, holding it perfectly vertical and dropping it cleanly for a consistent face/floor contact might be next to impossible.

Also, I suspect the rigors of the bet would be something like here are 200 shafts. Bounce them until you pick out the 100 highest toned ones. Once they are picked out and discreetly marked, you would have to pick out all 100 again. There would be so many in that lot of 200 that would be so close sounding, that when you add the reasons why dropping the same shaft over and over again could yield slightly different sounds, I think the odds of picking the same 100 are very steep. Bouncing shafts on concrete by dropping them from your hand with no instruments just isn't very controlled.

This isn't an impeachment of the idea of selecting high toned woods. That is simply another wood selection criteria that many of us attempt to employ to some degree. Just because bouncing shafts and listening to the tone isn't very exact and not completely repeatable doesn't mean it is completely worthless. Even if it doesn't work well enough to chose the exact same 100 each time, it might work well enough to nearly always reject the worse 20 and keep the best 20. The other 160 in the pile you need to chose your last 80 from would be the fly in the ointment.
 
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desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
make your own kiln

if you don't need a massive amount of wood. hightowers book gives instructions as how to build a kiln.
its cheap, its easy, and will not take up much space.
 

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Having been a trumpet player by trade, I am confident I could, with my human ears, find the highest pitched shaft wood in the bunch. I'm not saying it would necessarily be the 'best' (whatever that is), but I'm sure I could pick them out.

Paul,

I am sure that your chops and intonation is spot on and you have the pro's ear for sure.

My question is why do people think that high pitch resonance is the ideal in cues. I may be seen as a contrarian but I like the quiet sounding cues and strive for that by coring every cue I make with a 30 inch maple dowel for a lower freq. consistency as best that I can achieve.

I have been a string bass player for 40 over years so my ear is trained to lower frequency intonation. LOL......:killingme:

Rick
 
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