kiln drying wood

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You probably could pick some of the highest toned ones with a certain level of repeatability. But, could you to satisfy winning the bet?

Remember the bet is for bouncing shafts. One thing Joe didn't mention when he gave some reasons why he thinks nobody could win the bet was the exact alignment of the face it hits the concrete. The sound will vary a little between the shaft hitting dead flush and it hitting primarily on an edge. In addition to dropping a piece at the same exact height each time, holding it perfectly vertical and dropping it cleanly for a consistent face/floor contact might be next to impossible.

Also, I suspect the rigors of the bet would be something like here are 200 shafts. Bounce them until you pick out the 100 highest toned ones. Once they are picked out and discreetly marked, you would have to pick out all 100 again. There would be so many in that lot of 200 that would be so close sounding, that when you add the reasons why dropping the same shaft over and over again could yield slightly different sounds, I think the odds of picking the same 100 are very steep. Bouncing shafts on concrete by dropping them from your hand with no instruments just isn't very controlled.

This isn't an impeachment of the idea of selecting high toned woods. That is simply another wood selection criteria that many of us attempt to employ to some degree. Just because bouncing shafts and listening to the tone isn't very exact and not completely repeatable doesn't mean it is completely worthless. Even if it doesn't work well enough to chose the exact same 100 each time, it might work well enough to nearly always reject the worse 20 and keep the best 20. The other 60 would be the fly in the ointment.


Since you brought all this up and it all makes sense, let me interject a few more words to add to the BS of picking shafts by tone. This is a true story of an actual sale but the names are fictional and any similarities are purely coincidental.

First of all I would provide hundreds of shafts for anyone to pick from. I could give you a batch of 1,000 shafts all cut to 1" round, squares or coned; the choice is yours. Upon picking the best 200 "superior" tonal quality shafts, we'd mix them back into the batch of say 600 shafts and pick all over again.

But here is the interesting part. We've had numerous cue makers come to our shop when we were located in Boca Raton, Vegas and now in New Smyrna so we've gotten a good mix of cue makers. So, the conversation goes something like this.

Phone ringing....

Joe: CueComponents

Cue Maker: Is this Joe

Joe: That depends

Cue Maker: Hey Joe how are you?

Joe: I'm great but who the heck is this?

Cue Maker: This is Joey "Long Beek" Harmonics

Joe: Hey Joey, how's it going?

Cue Maker: Listen Joe, I was going to be in your area and thought I'd like to come by and pick some shafts; would this be possible.

Joe: Sure probably. When were you thinking about come by?

Cue Maker: How does next Tuesday sound?

Joe: Tues afternoon is good but the morning is definitely out.

Cue Maker: Yeah, Ok Joe I appreciate it as the afternoon will work for me too. You know I'm one of the best cue makers out there and everyone has come to respect my cues. I have a high demand for my cues and my clientele is of the highest caliber and won't take second best. I sell a lot of cues to the great guys on AZ so all my cues have to be perfect as you know how demanding they are.

Joe: zzzzzzzzz, huh, oh yeah of course I do.

Cue Maker: And you know Joe I have a very unique way I select shafts; I have to listen to their tonal quality or their harmonics and select only the very finest shafts for my cues; they must be "superior" to all others and that's why I use this method. My shafts are harmonically balanced to each cue I make and that’s why I make “superior” cues.

Joe: zzzzzzzz oh, yeah, right sure of course. I wouldn't have you do it any other way.

Cue Maker: OK, Joe see you next Tuesday.

Joe: Looking forward to it.

CLICK!

So, the following Tuesday, the cue maker makes his appearance. We talk a bit and we show him to an area where there are 1,000 shafts and we say go to it! Several hours later there are two piles. One pile of about 200 shafts which he wants and gladly pays for and another pile of about 500 shafts which he emphatically discards which such disdain that those shafts should be burnt. We say, just leave them and we'll tend to hanging them back up. He thanks us, we have some more small talk and on his way goes the happy cue maker.

So the happy cue maker leaves and my staff and I look at one another and start laughing. We think it's all a crock of crap but hey, who are we to question these guys. So we tend to hanging up over 500 shafts.

Months later the phone rings.

Joe: Cue Components

Cue Maker: Hey Joe, how are you this is Joey.

Joe: Oh, Hey Joey (I have no idea which Joey this is) how have you been?

Cue Maker: Just great Joe. You know we picked out such nice shafts from you last time we were there that we'd like to come by again and pick out some more. When would be convenient.

Joe: (scrambling to figure out who this is) Uh, next Wednesday thru Friday is best for me. How many did you buy last time?

Cue Maker: Yeah that will work, how about Thursday. You know it was great meeting your staff and letting me pick all those shafts where we rejected so many; you were great about that.

Joe: (ah ha! the tone guy – Joey Harmonics) Sure no problem. Glad we could help. I'll see you next Thursday.

Cue Maker: Great, can't wait.

Joe: neither can we; look forward to seeing you again.

CLICK.

With that, I walk into the shop and tell my staff that the tonal expert is coming again and that's met with a lot of strange looks. A week later, Beethoven, errr, I mean Joey shows up.

Joe: Hey Joey how are you. I got a special batch for you to pick from his time (some of you by now know where I'm going with this).

Cue Maker: Hey Joe, well that's just great!

Joe: here you go Joey - there's about 550 shafts for you to pick from and if you need more, let me know.

And so Joey proceeds to pick his "superior" quality tonal gems. Hours later, he picks out 150 shafts, pays for them, we exchange small talk of how he picks only the finest tonal quality shafts for his cues, bla, bla, bla. Finally, Joey walks off, a happy camper with his 150 tonal gems.

Need I say anymore? For those of you who haven't caught on yet, remember the 500 or so shafts which Joey emphatically discarded as junk on his first visit. Well, we hung them and left them for months. When Joey came back we showed him his rejects to pick from and he picked another 150 from his rejects.

True story on more than one occasion. Case closed.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
^
Here's a true story Joe.
You show Carmeli in your site bouncing shafts.
And now you're making fun of him after he gave you some business.
Pretty classy.

I don't know who the " Joey" is who went back to your store.
Maybe it's Joey Gold.
But since right before you had at least two aliases banned, you called me Joey Harmonics.
I know Bob is in Georgia but PC Anywhere works wonders.


I've never been to your store in Vegas or in Florida,.
But, the ***** that you are, insinuate I went to your store and bought shafts.
I know the story is just " fictitous ".
I had no derire to see your shafts after me and Kerry returned your crappy shafts back sometime aroung 2004-2005 .
After that, I ordered some from Rolaine, Tru-bilt and Champeau.
Now, I have another supplier.
Brought a box of 50 in the west coast show last year and delivered some to my friend Kenny Koo.
They were all sanded poles and sealed in plastic bags.
Not squares for $15 with nice stories.

Here's another fictitious story.
http://champeau.com/en/products.php
That place has tons of shafts.
I know a conman who re-sells them with nice stories.
The conman also walks around with a fake last name.
He's a retire master cuemaker now b/c he lost his help in the back who did all his cuemaking work.
I read that on TMZ.
 
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DaveK

pre-proscribed
Silver Member
The iPhone app "Audio Kit" may be of some assistance to those with tin ears.

Dave <-- knows you can't fix what you can't measure, and that you can measure "tone" with a spectrum analyser
 

Joe Barringer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
^
Here's a true story Joe.
You show Carmeli in your site bouncing shafts.
And now you're making fun of him after he gave you some business.
Pretty classy.

I don't know who the " Joey" is who went back to your store.
Maybe it's Joey Gold.
But since right before you had at least two aliases banned, you called me Joey Harmonics.
I know Bob is in Georgia but PC Anywhere works wonders.


I've never been to your store in Vegas or in Florida,.
But, the ***** that you are, insinuate I went to your store and bought shafts.
I know the story is just " fictitous ".
I had no derire to see your shafts after me and Kerry returned your crappy shafts back sometime aroung 2004-2005 .
After that, I ordered some from Rolaine, Tru-bilt and Champeau.
Now, I have another supplier.
Brought a box of 50 in the west coast show last year and delivered some to my friend Kenny Koo.
They were all sanded poles and sealed in plastic bags.
Not squares for $15 with nice stories.

Here's another fictitious story.
http://champeau.com/en/products.php
That place has tons of shafts.
I know a conman who re-sells them with nice stories.
The conman also walks around with a fake last name.
He's a retire master cuemaker now b/c he lost his help in the back who did all his cuemaking work.
I read that on TMZ.



Awww Joey you poor little whiner. No one cares what you have to say as you're a meaningless little nothing; a non-entity. The story wasn't meant for you; poor little baby Joey. You don't have any money to buy shafts much less anything else. You buy the cheapest quality of everything to craft your harmonic masterpieces. I clearly stated that the name was totally ficticious. You obviously don't know what ficticious means. And it further stated that this story happened on numerous occasions. It obviously hit a nerve with you; what's the matter you have a guilty conscience because you know the harmonic crap is BS.

And like I said, the name Joey was ficticious and why do you bring up Joey Gold? Are you that ignorant to understand what ficticious means? Joey Gold doesn't claim to listen to shaft ring tone and we all know that so why did you bring him up? Go to eBay and buy a life.

And just FYI - if you're going to repeat stories, at least repeat them accurately. We didn't "lose" our help, they were terminated, as in fired. And I made my decision to cease cue production long before we terminated the staff who has since been replaced. Get your stories straight 'mouth of the west'.

And just FYI - your buddies buy directly from us behind your back and they tell you what you want to hear. You're a moron and even your own 'friends' tell us that.

Keep going Joey as you're giving me ammo to bankrupt you just for fun. You can't afford $8 shafts, how can you afford an attorney!

And baby Joey, you broke a AZ rule of not posting links to suppliers. We don't buy shafts from Champeau but you're just chock full of misinformation. In fact, you're the misinformation king.
 
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scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Since you brought all this up and it all makes sense, let me interject a few more words to add to the BS of picking shafts by tone. This is a true story of an actual sale but the names are fictional and any similarities are purely coincidental.

First of all I would provide hundreds of shafts for anyone to pick from. I could give you a batch of 1,000 shafts all cut to 1" round, squares or coned; the choice is yours. Upon picking the best 200 "superior" tonal quality shafts, we'd mix them back into the batch of say 600 shafts and pick all over again.

But here is the interesting part. We've had numerous cue makers come to our shop when we were located in Boca Raton, Vegas and now in New Smyrna so we've gotten a good mix of cue makers. So, the conversation goes something like this.

Phone ringing....

Joe: CueComponents

Cue Maker: Is this Joe

Joe: That depends

Cue Maker: Hey Joe how are you?

Joe: I'm great but who the heck is this?

Cue Maker: This is Joey "Long Beek" Harmonics

Joe: Hey Joey, how's it going?

Cue Maker: Listen Joe, I was going to be in your area and thought I'd like to come by and pick some shafts; would this be possible.

Joe: Sure probably. When were you thinking about come by?

Cue Maker: How does next Tuesday sound?

Joe: Tues afternoon is good but the morning is definitely out.

Cue Maker: Yeah, Ok Joe I appreciate it as the afternoon will work for me too. You know I'm one of the best cue makers out there and everyone has come to respect my cues. I have a high demand for my cues and my clientele is of the highest caliber and won't take second best. I sell a lot of cues to the great guys on AZ so all my cues have to be perfect as you know how demanding they are.

Joe: zzzzzzzzz, huh, oh yeah of course I do.

Cue Maker: And you know Joe I have a very unique way I select shafts; I have to listen to their tonal quality or their harmonics and select only the very finest shafts for my cues; they must be "superior" to all others and that's why I use this method. My shafts are harmonically balanced to each cue I make and that’s why I make “superior” cues.

Joe: zzzzzzzz oh, yeah, right sure of course. I wouldn't have you do it any other way.

Cue Maker: OK, Joe see you next Tuesday.

Joe: Looking forward to it.

CLICK!

So, the following Tuesday, the cue maker makes his appearance. We talk a bit and we show him to an area where there are 1,000 shafts and we say go to it! Several hours later there are two piles. One pile of about 200 shafts which he wants and gladly pays for and another pile of about 500 shafts which he emphatically discards which such disdain that those shafts should be burnt. We say, just leave them and we'll tend to hanging them back up. He thanks us, we have some more small talk and on his way goes the happy cue maker.

So the happy cue maker leaves and my staff and I look at one another and start laughing. We think it's all a crock of crap but hey, who are we to question these guys. So we tend to hanging up over 500 shafts.

Months later the phone rings.

Joe: Cue Components

Cue Maker: Hey Joe, how are you this is Joey.

Joe: Oh, Hey Joey (I have no idea which Joey this is) how have you been?

Cue Maker: Just great Joe. You know we picked out such nice shafts from you last time we were there that we'd like to come by again and pick out some more. When would be convenient.

Joe: (scrambling to figure out who this is) Uh, next Wednesday thru Friday is best for me. How many did you buy last time?

Cue Maker: Yeah that will work, how about Thursday. You know it was great meeting your staff and letting me pick all those shafts where we rejected so many; you were great about that.

Joe: (ah ha! the tone guy – Joey Harmonics) Sure no problem. Glad we could help. I'll see you next Thursday.

Cue Maker: Great, can't wait.

Joe: neither can we; look forward to seeing you again.

CLICK.

With that, I walk into the shop and tell my staff that the tonal expert is coming again and that's met with a lot of strange looks. A week later, Beethoven, errr, I mean Joey shows up.

Joe: Hey Joey how are you. I got a special batch for you to pick from his time (some of you by now know where I'm going with this).

Cue Maker: Hey Joe, well that's just great!

Joe: here you go Joey - there's about 550 shafts for you to pick from and if you need more, let me know.

And so Joey proceeds to pick his "superior" quality tonal gems. Hours later, he picks out 150 shafts, pays for them, we exchange small talk of how he picks only the finest tonal quality shafts for his cues, bla, bla, bla. Finally, Joey walks off, a happy camper with his 150 tonal gems.

Need I say anymore? For those of you who haven't caught on yet, remember the 500 or so shafts which Joey emphatically discarded as junk on his first visit. Well, we hung them and left them for months. When Joey came back we showed him his rejects to pick from and he picked another 150 from his rejects.

True story on more than one occasion. Case closed.

Hi,

What Joe has described in his naritve is urban legend without objective reasoning. I am sure that his fictitious customer really believes his own bull crap. What really gets me is that when one suggests that they have some mystic talent to produce a cue that has some special ring tone using a variety of different exotics, they assume everyone in the room buys into their bull crap.

When you marry different wood in a cue the tonal permutations of different combinations is overwhelming. Even if you make ten cues out of the same wood from the same trees, they would all be very different.

Urban legend is evil as it dumbs down every one without any basis.

Some think they can control things they have no control over. They are usually snake oil salesmen pushing a product using their secret knowledge.

Thanks Mr. Barringer for telling it like it is. It is refreshing.

Rick
 
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Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Here is an interview with Linda Manzer. A premier female guitar builder.

Other than being an interesting interview for many of us that can appreciate craftsmanship no matter what were building, she also touches upon
tonal qualities of wood and how she selects wood for her guitars.
She also does a brief demonstration. She does it as simple as Eric Crisp explained to me on how to do it.

If you want to skip thru it, start at approx 7:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU
 
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jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
...Time to move on from this thread!

Martin
 
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ComptonCustomCues

Quality Handcrafted Cues
Silver Member
Here is an interview with Linda Manzer. A premier female guitar builder.

Other than being an interesting interview for many of us that can appreciate craftsmanship no matter what were building, she also touches upon
tonal qualities of wood and how she selects wood for her guitars.
She also does a brief demonstration. She does it as simple as Eric Crisp explained to me on how to do it.

If you want to skip thru it, start at approx 7:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU

I do check the tone of my cues by holding it at the balance point and using my knuckles just as an after the fact kind of thing.....but checking shafts. Weight color and ring count play a better role....and even then alot of it is guess work. I have a shaft I culled out of one of my first batches. Half of the blank was heart wood...very ugly and brown. I turned it down to finish size in less than 30 minutes(I set my taper bar up with it). Then it sat thru two brutal summers and winters (not climate controled shop) with at least 60 pounds of crap on it. When I finally dug it out I found out it was laser strait. So I decided to put it on the scale.....4.8 without ferrule and ringwork:eek:. I put a black ring and a juma ferrule on it.....well long story short Its the only shaft I wont sell. It goes to show you sometimes you don't have control and mother nature is smarter than you. I have built cues I thought were going to be amazing and they turned out well eehhh. Then I have had cues I was tempted to just throw away thinking they were going to hit bad and wow....they turned out great. There is a bit of mystery in cue building and any instrument building.
 
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BHQ

we'll miss you
Silver Member
Here is an interview with Linda Manzer. A premier female guitar builder.

Other than being an interesting interview for many of us that can appreciate craftsmanship no matter what were building, she also touches upon
tonal qualities of wood and how she selects wood for her guitars.
She also does a brief demonstration. She does it as simple as Eric Crisp explained to me on how to do it.

If you want to skip thru it, start at approx 7:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU
i cant sing
i cant dance, i was born without rhythm
and i'm tone deaf
i didnt hear any difference when she tapped the two pieces
i guess i'm just phucked :thud:
colorblind too
i guess i'll give it up and go back to plumbing
no sense of smell either :thumbup:
 
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cutter

Steve Klein Custom Cues
Silver Member
kiln drying

Holy crap Brent. I was around aircraft for 35 years and I can hear the difference. Can't always hear the wife, but that's another story.
 

Russell Cues

Maverick Cue Builder
Silver Member
Holy crap Brent. I was around aircraft for 35 years and I can hear the difference. Can't always hear the wife, but that's another story.

:rotflmao1: Thats to funny, when I was married my wife said some how I didnt "hear what she said" to often? :rotflmao: I told her it was because of the router !!
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Brent is just teasing. I know he can smell beer.

I'm half deaf so I wouldn't trust my judgement.

To me, when Linda tapped the uncut piece, it sounded nice. When she tapped the cut piece, it didn't sound as nice.
My dreams of becoming a guitar builder are now crushed.

I was going to say something re tapping my own wood but I thought better of it.
 
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scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

Maybe in the future the handles or butts of cues can have a notch carved or will be whittled like tuning forks too!.. LOL :idea2:

Comparing Guitars to pool cues makes no sense to me. Pool cues don't have strings and you don't hit balls with guitars!!!!

Rick
 
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