Knowing your limitations by JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
In recent months, one of the things that I have been working on is to learn my limitations in different areas.

This means being honest with yourself but it also means evaluating your equipment and talent. This doesn't mean that you can't change your ability and learn how to do something better. It just means that when you are under duress and a part of you says, I "think" that I can do that but it sure "looks" like it won't go, you can think back to some of your limitation exercises and determine if it's worth risking the attempt.

One of the things that I have challenged myself to do is to find out what my limitations are when drawing the cue ball.

Now everyone knows that when the cue ball is 12-24 inches from the object ball it is easy to draw the cue ball long distances.

Do you know how far you can draw the cue ball when the cue is certain distances away from the object ball? I'm not talking about using the rails and side spin on the cue ball, just striaght draw.

If you would like to give yourself a reality check and some data to help you improve your pool game try this:

Set up some draw shots where the object ball is in the jaws of a corner pocket, then place the cue ball at different distances away from the object ball, using the diamonds to approximate the distance. You can keep track of the number of diamonds that the cue ball travels, BOTH to and FROM the object ball.

You may want to start out with the cue ball only two diamonds away from the object ball. See how far you can draw the cue ball. Count the number of diamonds that the cue ball travels when you draw the cue ball. It is an excellent idea to know what your maximum capabilities are with your stroke, your equipment and the current shot you are faced with.

There will be some commonalities no matter how far the cue ball is from the object ball. When you start recognizing this common data, it will give you a good idea as to whether you should attempt a shot a certain way or not.

For me, my maximum amount of cue ball travel is ten diamonds WHEN THE CUE BALL IS 6 diamonds away from a jawed object ball. This means that the maximum number of diamonds that I can draw the cue ball on this shot (without using SIDE SPIN and bouncing off one of the rails) is 4 diamonds. I can consistently draw approximately 3 diamonds and sometimes if I do not hit the cue ball with a good accelerating stroke at the spot I am attempting to hit the cue ball and at the speed I am attempting to swing the cue, I can sometimes be limited to no draw at all or only one or two diamonds of draw.

This is a telling exercise and it provides valuable information that can enhance your level of play. I've provided the diagram below to help you visualize the exercise of limitations. You can do this with other things such as putting the object ball on the spot and then placing the cue ball in a particular fixed location and find out as you cut the object ball into the pocket, what is the maximum amount that you can widen the angle as the cue ball comes off the rail. These are eye opening exercises of your current personal limitations and that of the equipment that you are using.

CueTable Help



Try placing the cue ball different distances from the Object ball and you may find out some things about your game that you never dreamed of.

Another limitations exercise that I like to do is to place the object ball on the spot and then place the cue ball two diamonds away from the object ball and use different amounts of side spin and combinations of high and low with the side spin to see how I can affect the angle as it bounces off of the rail after pocketing the object ball. You might discover some things about your game and clear up some misconceptions about how low right differs greatly from just right spin. I did and I've been playing a long time.

Hope you enjoy the limitation exercises. Post your results here. I may not be able to respond to all of them but if you have a unique limitation exercise, let us know what it is and what your limitations are. (I might be able to use it against you in some future match between us. :D)


JoeyA
 
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Very cool thread, Joey. I'm anxiously awaiting the responses here. I totally struggle with draw, though lately I've managed to make a little progress. Hopefully I'm getting the mechanics of it better, so your suggestions (and those sure to follow) will be quite helpful.

Cool.
 
I am intrigued by limitation exercises. The side spin limitation exercises blew me away. The things you learn when you experiment. :)

Let me see your results. :wink:
 
I have tried off and on, for many years, to draw the ball on long shots. I set up like your diagram, but shoot further back, from the corner pocket. I can stop the cue ball, but that is it. I have tried with Shön, JossWest, Pechauer, Meucci, Espiritu, Stout, and Predator shafts. Same result. I had given it up as impossible. How far can you draw from that set up? If I could get one diamond, I would be a very happy man. Any suggestions?

9' table. 860 Simonis cloth

I guess that is the limitation I know.
 
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Joey,

According to LocknLoad - you have no limitations! Good thread topic regardless :).

Sorry we won't have time to meet while at Mardi Gras...another time perhaps.

Dave
 
Joey,

According to LocknLoad - you have no limitations! Good thread topic regardless :).

Sorry we won't have time to meet while at Mardi Gras...another time perhaps.

Dave

Stop it already Dave. I'm carrying a heavy load as it is. :D
 
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I have tried off and on, for many years, to draw the ball on long shots. I set up like your diagram, but shoot further back, from the corner pocket. I can stop the cue ball, but that is it. I have tried with Shön, JossWest, Pechauer, Meucci, Espiritu, Stout, and Predator shafts. Same result. I had given it up as impossible. How far can you draw from that set up? If I could get one diamond, I would be a very happy man. Any suggestions?

9' table. 860 Simonis cloth

I guess that is the limitation I know.

Good point about the 9 foot table and the cloth.

I don't know how much farther back you are from the object ball but when I am 6 diamonds away from the object ball (in the jaws) the most I can draw it is four diamonds back after hitting the object ball and that's not every time either. :embarrassed2:

Hitting where you aim to hit the cue ball is critical. Most of us don't hit where we are trying to hit the cue ball and that is the primary reason why we don't draw the cue ball as well as we think we should.

The other reason is that we aren't executing a good stroke. Smooth transition from back stroke to forward stroke (pause is ok) and accelerating forward stroke.

You can learn a lot about yourself and your game when practicing your limitations.

JoeyA
 
Reality checks can be scary.

Talking about how the truth hurts. Finding out how good I am not is very humbling. I look at certain shots that I know are possible but just not by me. My draw sucks most of the time and I have tried every way possible to work on it but is inconsitant. I will now try to work within my own bounderies after all no one knows what I know better than I do. Thanks for the Reality check big time.

JoeyA Reality can be scary.
 
Talking about how the truth hurts. Finding out how good I am not is very humbling. I look at certain shots that I know are possible but just not by me. My draw sucks most of the time and I have tried every way possible to work on it but is inconsitant. I will now try to work within my own bounderies after all no one knows what I know better than I do. Thanks for the Reality check big time.

JoeyA Reality can be scary.

This is an article by my friend, Buddy Hall concerning draw. Follow what he says to the letter and see if it improves your draw.

JoeyA
 
There's a drill where you line up a straight in shot cue ball at 2nd diamond, object ball at other 2nd diamond and just draw it. I get it back to the rail and back up about 1/2 to 3/4 way up to the other rail, which is about average. The big stroke guys get back to the rail. Fun game for beers.
 
Several years ago, Bob Jewett put an article on the San Francisco Billiard Academy site that contains quite a number of progressive tests/drills of this type. Stop, draw, follow, cut angle, and position play are all covered. They allow you to accurately measure your real capabilities, know your realistic chances of making a particular shot, and are very useful as practice drills to improve your performance.

The link to the article is http://www.sfbilliards.com/progpract.pdf

The SFBA site also contains a great deal of other information that is useful to read through.
 
Excellent post Joey. I've always said that one of the most important things in pool isn't What you can do so much as Knowing exactly what you can do.

If you don't know what you can/can't do it's impossible to accurately understand what you should do to maximize your chance of winning.

~rc
 
12, I thought this thread was about draw and limitations!!

Joey,

According to LocknLoad - you have no limitations! Good thread topic regardless :).

Sorry we won't have time to meet while at Mardi Gras...another time perhaps.

Dave

Hello Dave, what did I do now? How is it going for you? I will keep my mouth shut!
Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Limits

I am intrigued by limitation exercises. The side spin limitation exercises blew me away. The things you learn when you experiment. :)

Let me see your results. :wink:

Wow, I feel pretty silly. Been playing over forty years and today I'm just thinking I have limitations. Good exercise, and will try this draw thing tomorrow. I was always amazed I could draw the length of a snooker table in my youth but have trouble now on a bar box! Youth, equipment,dumb luck! Many times I try long draw shots only to stop the ball! And other shots have limits also? What the heck. Thanks. We never stop learning.
 
No favortism BUT

Joey , I gotta say it . If all the threads on AZbilliards were held to this standard it would be a better world. This thread was fun and educational.
Lock, you were mentioned just because you are Legend !! Known from coast to coast .
This thread did not bash anyone ,any idea, or system .....this is what we need here people :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Side spin versus Low Right

There's a drill where you line up a straight in shot cue ball at 2nd diamond, object ball at other 2nd diamond and just draw it. I get it back to the rail and back up about 1/2 to 3/4 way up to the other rail, which is about average. The big stroke guys get back to the rail. Fun game for beers.

A lot depends upon your equipment, the table you are playing on (cloth, size of pockets, type of pockets etc).

There are lots of drills that are designed to increase your proficiency but I think there is great merit in knowing just what your limitations are, so that you don't go there. For example, on tight pocket Diamond tables with worn cloth, I do not want to try and draw the cue ball four diamonds if the cue ball is already 6 diamonds away from the object ball. I'm just not consistent enough at that distance.

The same thing applies to those side English shots. You might be surprised at what you actually do and what you think you can do on the five ball shot below.

CueTable Help



With just side spin I can widen the angle more than I can with low right. I wouldn't have thought so until I tried this shot many different ways. Maybe it's the angle or maybe it's just my limitations. Anyway, I'm glad to practice the limitation exercises. It's kind of sobering for sure. :)

JoeyA
 
This thread did not bash anyone ,any idea, or system .....

You're absolutely right. The only problem is someone still brings it up. "Yeah but you need ______ to execute this type of shot."

Anyway.....

This is an excellent thread. In the rare instance that I don't play perfect shape :thumbup:, sometimes I'm left with a low percentage shot, or getting shape is low percentage. That particular draw shot is very tough to get the same shape consistently. Knowing your limitations on this or any particular shot is very important and may require some discipline.
 
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